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  #21  
Old 09-30-2009, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by wills370 View Post
Yeah capure the flag would be a hrd on on this game. Especially if you just attack with a patrol of horses assuming allhorses are similaar speeds you wouldent be able to catch them. One idea however would be that you have to capture a NPC city. (there would have to be two to make it even).
Or you just use a script to make the unit carrying the flag move slower.
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  #22  
Old 09-30-2009, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Haeso View Post
Or you just use a script to make the unit carrying the flag move slower.
Hmm would make gameplay awquard if you already have a slow unit in possetion of the flag it would be super slow. And being squad based in some units all the units in that squad would look like there in slow motion.

If on the other hand they had to gain possesion of say a caravan wagon that could work?
Where that would auto move for them and you had to defend it while the enemy tried stealing it off you where by the caravan would turn round and move towards there base.
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Last edited by wills370 : 09-30-2009 at 09:36 AM. Reason: typo
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  #23  
Old 09-30-2009, 03:04 PM
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You could just have the flag slow the all units that carry it down to a certain amount.
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  #24  
Old 09-30-2009, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by wills370 View Post
Hmm would make gameplay awquard if you already have a slow unit in possetion of the flag it would be super slow. And being squad based in some units all the units in that squad would look like there in slow motion.

If on the other hand they had to gain possesion of say a caravan wagon that could work?
Where that would auto move for them and you had to defend it while the enemy tried stealing it off you where by the caravan would turn round and move towards there base.

The animation doesn't really matter honestly, a trigger based slow for CTF that reduces the carrier speed down to below that of regular infantry is the best way to do it, really the only effective way. An automatic movement takes a lot of the strategy out of CTF.
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  #25  
Old 09-30-2009, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Haeso View Post
The animation doesn't really matter honestly, a trigger based slow for CTF that reduces the carrier speed down to below that of regular infantry is the best way to do it, really the only effective way. An automatic movement takes a lot of the strategy out of CTF.
#The caravan then could easily just have optional sides. Where it changes sides after you claim it and you can direct it as one of your own troops.

To me i wouldent like to see units moving at a super slow pace while all your others are just walking by at the correct pace. would look to odd. To me anyway.

Plus with a caravan say full of gold it is more understandable why you are fighting over it then say a flag.
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  #26  
Old 09-30-2009, 07:11 PM
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#The caravan then could easily just have optional sides. Where it changes sides after you claim it and you can direct it as one of your own troops.

To me i wouldent like to see units moving at a super slow pace while all your others are just walking by at the correct pace. would look to odd. To me anyway.

Plus with a caravan say full of gold it is more understandable why you are fighting over it then say a flag.

CTF is hardly ever a flag outside of FPSes. CTF name of the mode, think of it as pride. When the roman's for example lost a legion's Standard it was a great dishonor, fighting to get it back even though it's little more than yeah, a flag, was still considered a top priority. It was their pride. Or it could just simply be a magical item the unit picks up that weighs them down.

The problem with creating a seperate unit that changes control is that you have to kill the enemies units around it. This leads to ring around the rosie if your opponents army outmatches yours, letting you move the object even further than you would otherwise, just stalling and delaying to win rather than fighting.

When it's an actual unit that can be killed you need to protect it or it would drop, and if it's a good CTF - think of the requisition nodes and such in dawn of war if you've played it, you have to take several seconds in order to pick it up, uninterrupted. This means again, that you absolutely have to fight to win since your unit won't be able to run away effectively. It's a game mechanic thing, and scaled animations can work just fine. It's not like their attack animations or anything get slowed. Also Willis, the dev's have told us there are several types of movement speeds - one of which is 'walk' I believe, or perhaps march, then jog and sprint or something. I recall there being 3 at the least. Now simply forcing the carrier to 'walk' and restricting it to specific types of units that can carry it ie; standard infantry that don't have high base speed and making them walk will be perfectly fine balance wise. Unless the 'walk' speed is consistent with all units, but I believe the three movement speeds are just multipliers for the base speed of the unit itself, so it would still require restricting it to slow units or scripting.

Either using the forced walk/limited types of units as carriers or just slowing the carrier to a set speed is preferable to a special unit that changes side based on script, I mean if you prefer it, that's your call. But I just don't like the idea of as soon as you get it just microing your units away from actual combat but staying close enough to maintain control, it allows for some very cheap and ultimately boring strategies.
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Last edited by Josh Warner : 09-30-2009 at 07:14 PM.
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  #27  
Old 10-01-2009, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Haeso View Post
CTF is hardly ever a flag outside of FPSes. CTF name of the mode, think of it as pride. When the roman's for example lost a legion's Standard it was a great dishonor, fighting to get it back even though it's little more than yeah, a flag, was still considered a top priority. It was their pride. Or it could just simply be a magical item the unit picks up that weighs them down.

The problem with creating a seperate unit that changes control is that you have to kill the enemies units around it. This leads to ring around the rosie if your opponents army outmatches yours, letting you move the object even further than you would otherwise, just stalling and delaying to win rather than fighting.

When it's an actual unit that can be killed you need to protect it or it would drop, and if it's a good CTF - think of the requisition nodes and such in dawn of war if you've played it, you have to take several seconds in order to pick it up, uninterrupted. This means again, that you absolutely have to fight to win since your unit won't be able to run away effectively. It's a game mechanic thing, and scaled animations can work just fine. It's not like their attack animations or anything get slowed. Also Willis, the dev's have told us there are several types of movement speeds - one of which is 'walk' I believe, or perhaps march, then jog and sprint or something. I recall there being 3 at the least. Now simply forcing the carrier to 'walk' and restricting it to specific types of units that can carry it ie; standard infantry that don't have high base speed and making them walk will be perfectly fine balance wise. Unless the 'walk' speed is consistent with all units, but I believe the three movement speeds are just multipliers for the base speed of the unit itself, so it would still require restricting it to slow units or scripting.

Either using the forced walk/limited types of units as carriers or just slowing the carrier to a set speed is preferable to a special unit that changes side based on script, I mean if you prefer it, that's your call. But I just don't like the idea of as soon as you get it just microing your units away from actual combat but staying close enough to maintain control, it allows for some very cheap and ultimately boring strategies.
The idea i had would of been similar to yours where either you need to inflict a certian amount of damage (make him change his mind to who he was helping:P)
or you could claim it buy standing by it for several seconds. I guess once it moves with your own troops it would act as much a unit as it would a flag. the diffrence only being in the visuals. Could even be that the cart was left empty and you have to populate it with your own men. that way your health would be dependant on your mens etc.
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  #28  
Old 10-01-2009, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by wills370 View Post
The idea i had would of been similar to yours where either you need to inflict a certian amount of damage (make him change his mind to who he was helping:P)
or you could claim it buy standing by it for several seconds. I guess once it moves with your own troops it would act as much a unit as it would a flag. the diffrence only being in the visuals. Could even be that the cart was left empty and you have to populate it with your own men. that way your health would be dependant on your mens etc.
You could create a script that after a certain percentage is dealt switches ownership or turns it neutral and you have to set a unit on it for a few seconds like DoW's requisition things to gain ownership. I still prefer the things you can do with a carrying system, but this would technically work if you really can't stand a change to unit animations I guess.

The things about carrying is, you can do lots of cool things with it ranging from creating lots of the same unit type to conceal which one is actually holding the item, or give the carrying unit special bonuses/penalties and so on.
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  #29  
Old 10-01-2009, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Haeso View Post
You could create a script that after a certain percentage is dealt switches ownership or turns it neutral and you have to set a unit on it for a few seconds like DoW's requisition things to gain ownership. I still prefer the things you can do with a carrying system, but this would technically work if you really can't stand a change to unit animations I guess.

The things about carrying is, you can do lots of cool things with it ranging from creating lots of the same unit type to conceal which one is actually holding the item, or give the carrying unit special bonuses/penalties and so on.
Yeah that would work too. Possibly give the users the option in 2 formats called either wagon dash and capture the flag. Could have small variations in gameplay also.
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  #30  
Old 10-02-2009, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by wills370 View Post
Yeah that would work too. Possibly give the users the option in 2 formats called either wagon dash and capture the flag. Could have small variations in gameplay also.
Suppose you could create several types within the same map, on init. have the first player choose which mode, or choose to let the mode be decided by vote. Wouldn't be too difficult, and adds a lot of replay value to the map if people can pick what they want. It might be a little messy to code for, but you could definitely do it.

That's one of the things I wish more games did, lots of customizable options once the game starts instead of just making 10 of the same map with slight variations.
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