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  #1  
Old 04-11-2013, 10:01 AM
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vicious666 vicious666 is offline
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Default Units balancements i want your opinions

I am working on balancement in DoF, i play since 2011 i am a mod and also dev ,i have over 300 pvp match , and worked with the devs in the last 15 patch.
I am also an old player from 1997player, starcraft 1-2 , maniac of pvp balancement, so if you like talk about numbers & % i am the right guy.

But i am not everywhere and even if i have 3 cities full developed with army between 500 and 3500 of all 3 races, i cant see everything or experience every combination of units in game , so i need your opinions of what is OP what is underpowered , and why.


I have already sent a long list of balancement to the devs, regards augmenting dragons res since they are too squishy, and regards op bonus of berserker/orc units in general that can reach even 100% res thx to too generous bonus in theyr formation options. so this will be fixed soon.
Stamina of humans will be augmented for be on same page of orc/elfes.
Hp of archers will be boosted (starting hp )
Heroes regen will be lowered, same for self heal ability and maybe in some cases certain ability/bonus

i want specific units, specific problems, specific suggestion


the most valuable suggestion and report will receive from me a key WITH AN UNIQUE ICE DRAGON 120 CROWNS AND SOME DWARF UNITS

Last edited by vicious666 : 05-02-2013 at 09:09 AM.
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  #2  
Old 04-11-2013, 12:33 PM
SadClown SadClown is offline
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I don't really want the crowns and stuff. Nevertheless:

Range units are OP are the moment. As infantry/cavalry closes by, they'll fire horizontally, making all the projectiles deal massive damage. And even when in melee combat, they'll keep firing and overpowering said units.

I'm suggesting a second damage attack, melee only, for ranged units, so this issue is cut off. It's kinda funny to see how easily I broke a whole mounted knight charge with a few crossbowmen.
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:02 PM
lthat lthat is offline
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There another 100% Res all combi on Elven Hero with 80/80/80 + armor ability 20/20/20 = 100/100/100 and this for a really really long time

http://www.reverieworld.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=7060
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:06 PM
Cynwulf Cynwulf is offline
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I am a newb but i have been playing rts games since Dune 2. I know i am old.

Ranged units are too powerful. At the very least they should stop shooting once in melee. More specifically shield armed troops not on a horse should be very resistent to archers. Horses if not barded should be vulnerable otherwise knights on barded horses should be resistent but not as much as shield armed infantry. Crossbows should be very vulnerable to cavalry once in melee having a slower fire rate. Though crossbows should be more effective against shield armed troops as compared with archers those shields should still make them harder targets to damage.

Dragon hp regen is over powered. I do not feel they are too squishy either. They are very mobile being able to fly away from danger and then regen to full in minutes. They are very versatile too able to attack in melee and spit fire from a distance. not this was a black dragon. if that makes a difference.

Human Battering rams have too much hp. I charged knights out as a lone battering ram approached my gates hardly dented it along with 1 crossbow and 3 archers and many Trebs attacking it. At the very least the men using the battering ram should get killed easily in melee and should be able to be replaced by detaching infantry from another unit.

The other problem is running. There should be greater penalities emposed on units that run then engage in combat. I have watched armies run into battle from some distance away with little effect to there fighting ability.

Trebuchets should do a lot more damage to a dragon if they manage to strike one then they currently do.

when a unit of infantry is in shield wall they should stay that way not have a few men charge from it. It is a defensive formation which the enemy should have to break.

I have found human macemen to be useless. There not effective against archers or crossbow, not effective against other infantry with perhaps the exception of halbrediers which i cannot confirm. Ineffective against cavalry. historically(i know i know this is fantasy) foot macemen used a two handed mace and it would be very high damage weapon which would not be reduced due to heavy armor.

while my experience in the game is limited as compared with the op i bring the perspective of a newer player who has noticed the above so far in game.

By far i find the most glaring problem are dragons being far from squishy. The regen ability is overpowered in this game. If that was gone it would at least keep a dragon from coming back for more over and over again.

Last edited by Cynwulf : 04-11-2013 at 05:19 PM.
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  #5  
Old 04-11-2013, 03:33 PM
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vicious666 vicious666 is offline
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from my experience ranged units are powerful on low levels 1-10 after that trust me guys
with right formations the majority of the melee units (like slayers sentry sworsman foot knights berserker ) reach 85% pierce dmg res and tank quite easly the ranged dmg until they close the range enought for melee consider also archers have very low hp at high levels a mounted knights do 500-600 dmg an archer have 400-450 hp, they are insta killed by cavalry,same happens when infantry engage them on melee. (this happens between lev 10/20)

you need to speficy levels of you troops becouse at max hp hp regen and max res, the game balance change a lot towards melee than ranged in late levels

Whit the levels the dmg mitigation, the hp buffer, and regen allow melee units to absorb a lot of punishement while they do theyr job, archers instead be the main killers like happens in the range of level between 1 and 10 become more harasser/dmg add thathelp melee kill faster the enemy units, they have hard time complete the job by themself. just for comparation

lev 20 archers

dmg between 300 and 600 max 700 depends on formation/firearrow/skillpoints
health points 400-450 at max almost 0 res, unless they use infilade and have low res like 20-30-20

lev 20 foot knights dmg between 350 and 550, (depends much on the formation) 2050 hp maxed res 75 35 60 , with correct formation they go 85% pierce , self heal +100 hp, area heal 100 hp (the area heal work also on the caster) natural hp regen 20/sec

real archer dmg after armor reduction 85% , hp regen and self heals?

500 - 85% = 75 - 20(regen/sec) =50 - self heal 5/hp sec for 20 sec? they can almost permatank archers until they end stamina, and after that they receive only 50 dmg for arrow, that means 21 arrow for kill a single knight

of course compared to low levels, where archer do 300 dmg, knights have 500-700 hp, and 50% pierce, probably no hp regen, it takes only 4-5 arrow for kill one (300 archer dmg -50% pierce res = 150 ) so now archer appear powerful later they become the underdog. (of course concentration of archer shooting 1 single unit can still do good dmg but nothing compared to what happens at low levels)


[quote=lthat;78118]There another 100% Res all combi on Elven Hero with 80/80/80 + armor ability 20/20/20 = 100/100/100 and this for a really really long time


signed

Last edited by vicious666 : 04-11-2013 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 04-11-2013, 03:44 PM
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vicious666 vicious666 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynwulf View Post
I am a newb but i have been playing rts games since Dune 2. I know i am old.

Ranged units are too powerful. At the very least they should stop shooting once in melee. More specifically shield armed troops not on a horse should be very resistent to archers. Horses if not barded should be vulnerable otherwise knights on barded horses should be resistent but not as much as shield armed infantry. Crossbows should be very vulnerable to cavalry once in melee having a slower fire rate. Though crossbows should be more effective against shield armed troops as compared with archers those shields should still make them harder targets to damage.

Dragon hp regen is over powered. I do not feel they are too squishy either. They are very mobile being able to fly away from danger and then regen to full in minutes. They are very versatile too able to attack in melee and spit fire from a distance. not this was a black dragon. if that makes a difference.

Human Battering rams have too much hp. I charged knights out as a lone battering ram approached my gates hardly dented it along with 1 crossbow and 3 archers and many Trebs attacking it. At the very least the men using the battering ram should get killed easily in melee and should be able to be replaced by detaching infantry from another unit.

The other problem is running. There should be greater penalities emposed on units that run then engage in combat. I have watched armies run into battle from some distance away with little effect to there fighting ability.

Trebuchets should do a lot more damage to a dragon if they manage to strike one then they currently do.

when a unit of infantry is in shield wall they should stay that way not have a few men charge from it. It is a defensive formation which the enemy should have to break.

I have found human macemen to be useless. There not effective against archers or crossbow, not effective against other infantry with perhaps the exception of halbrediers which i cannot confirm. Ineffective against cavalry.

while my experience in the game is limited as compared with the op i bring the perspective of a newer player who has noticed the above so far in game.

By far i find the most glaring problem are dragons being far from squishy. The regen ability is overpowered in this game. If that was gone it would at least keep a dragon from coming back for more over and over again.


I can say you that dragons looks powerful at low levels at high levels they are pretty easy to kill too easy, think about a lev 20 dwarf battler batallion have 2k life x20men and each of them do up to 900 dmg. they can do 15k+dmg on a dragon in 2 sec.

Regards maceman and halberdiers they are on progress to be boosted by a bit, they will receive hp boost dmg boost and more appropriate resistances for theyr roles is on work also dedicated formations and special ability for them.

There is a total re-concept of the Cavalier since they where praticly a weaker version of the mounted knights, now mounted knights will be slower.
Cavalier will be even faster, will have more hp than now, slightly more res, and more dmg, but more vulnerable to arrows they will be a sort of hit & run kind of cavalry with high dmg fast mobility low tank.

Many elves unit are also getting a boost in hp/dmg and more appropriate resistances expecial the cavalry and the melee units, and some rebalancement of orc formations/ dmg. that allowed them to reach too high res/dmg on berserker/slayers.
Humans are getting balanced here and there on various units but are minor adjustment, the biggest revamp are on archers, expecial orc one, less dmg/range overall. more survivability in general.


after done this basic unit rebalance, we will focus on heroes expecial nerfing a bit high res/hp regen , and reducing theyr self heal abilities

Last edited by vicious666 : 04-11-2013 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 04-11-2013, 05:35 PM
Cynwulf Cynwulf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicious666 View Post
I can say you that dragons looks powerful at low levels at high levels they are pretty easy to kill too easy, think about a lev 20 dwarf battler batallion have 2k life x20men and each of them do up to 900 dmg. they can do 15k+dmg on a dragon in 2 sec.

Regards maceman and halberdiers they are on progress to be boosted by a bit, they will receive hp boost dmg boost and more appropriate resistances for theyr roles is on work also dedicated formations and special ability for them.

There is a total re-concept of the Cavalier since they where praticly a weaker version of the mounted knights, now mounted knights will be slower.
Cavalier will be even faster, will have more hp than now, slightly more res, and more dmg, but more vulnerable to arrows they will be a sort of hit & run kind of cavalry with high dmg fast mobility low tank.

Many elves unit are also getting a boost in hp/dmg and more appropriate resistances expecial the cavalry and the melee units, and some rebalancement of orc formations/ dmg. that allowed them to reach too high res/dmg on berserker/slayers.
Humans are getting balanced here and there on various units but are minor adjustment, the biggest revamp are on archers, expecial orc one, less dmg/range overall. more survivability in general.

Also you didn't discuss the Ram which seems to be very resistent to melee which it shouldn't be. They should need to be protected by ones own troops not able to move on a gate while his army stays safely back. Any sally from a fortification with cavalry should destroy said lone ram heading for a gate.


after done this basic unit rebalance, we will focus on heroes expecial nerfing a bit high res/hp regen , and reducing theyr self heal abilities
Shouldn't the game be balanced at all levels? Each troop type needs a role which is consistent throughout level progression. If a dragon is too powerful at low levels it needs to be toned down for low levels and if its too weak at the upper levels beefed up for those levels. Obviously this becomes difficult if you allow high level players to attack low level ones and vice a versa.

I like what you are doing with the cavalier ( light cavalry were fast and often used to take out archers from the flank or rear if possible. There horses having no barding would be very susceptable to archer fire too.

I have use of the Halberdier to intercept cavalry. Have not used the schiltron as of yet but imagine it would make them quite formidable against all troop types but even more vulnerable to archers and crossbow and siege equipment. Would slow them down considerably too.

I edited my post on macemen giviing a suggestion on there role in my previous post.

Does armor mitigate damage if so then certain weapon types would be less effected from this effect. For example a two handed mace or halbred would not be as effected by the armor an oppenent wears thus that armor would do less mitigation on the other hand a sword would be greatly effected by the mitigation of heavier armor.

Last edited by Cynwulf : 04-11-2013 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 04-15-2013, 04:01 AM
mauro07 mauro07 is offline
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i have a pvp, forse units are 79 for both; he have cavalery and units for siegeand 1 axel or champion dwarfe... he attack me with only dwarfe and destry my 3 low level units, i dont remember level of dwarfe but the value of this unit is underestimated in a pvp... same thing, i have pvp against 1 unit of ogre vs my 2 swordman and 2 archer and he won easily... i think some units have much hp are underestimated as a value to be counted in pvp ... might have to recalculate some values ​​there ... everything from what little I've seen ...
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Old 04-15-2013, 04:40 AM
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Brian Shingles Brian Shingles is offline
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Thanks everyone who has contributed so far. Keep the posts coming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynwulf
I am a newb but i have been playing rts games since Dune 2. I know i am old.
Don't say that! You'll make me feel old. I played Dune 2 as a teenager when it first came out.
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  #10  
Old 04-17-2013, 07:00 AM
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vicious666 vicious666 is offline
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We are working on rebalancing all starting from lev 1, and probably study a new lev system with more feature
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