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  #21  
Old 06-07-2012, 04:16 PM
daikl daikl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zekarde View Post
Orcs are hard to say, I don't have quite enough experience with them but from what I see most people want a complete overhaul of orc army mechanics; this seems excessive. They could probably use a few more % on resists and hp, or a reminder that they can hire mercenaries from other races and use cavalry.
Whats the point of playing the orc faction if i use other units? And when did you last tried orc cavalry?I had 6 mounted slayers and 5 mounted impalers decimated by elven reinforcements(a few mounted GM and a few mounted rangers),i think i managed to kill maybe 2 squads and mine were all destroyed.
As you said you don't have enough experience and i strongly recommand you play the race before makeing suggestions.
And its not just those fixes,orc have bugs(forrest orc military bonus doenst work,resources reset at 7k to name a few)
Oh and did you check the orc stronghold in comparison with other races?FFS we dont even get one complete wall(and even that's made of wood).
Give the orcs some love!
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  #22  
Old 06-07-2012, 04:31 PM
Ghost Ghost is offline
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I've played all three races, and I do have to agree that Orcs seem a little underpowered. I've yet to find a way to use their strengths as well as I can use the strengths of Elves and Men.

With men I apply superior cavalry to the enemy's weak spots.

With Elves, I set up a hard line with heavy infantry to hold them at a distance, then rain down arrows with superior archers along with flank attacks from hidden units.

I've yet to figure out how to use the Orcs correctly other than throwing ogres at my enemy.
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  #23  
Old 06-07-2012, 06:50 PM
Zekarde Zekarde is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daikl View Post
Whats the point of playing the orc faction if i use other units? And when did you last tried orc cavalry?I had 6 mounted slayers and 5 mounted impalers decimated by elven reinforcements(a few mounted GM and a few mounted rangers),i think i managed to kill maybe 2 squads and mine were all destroyed.
I suppose I could have phrased that more clearly, when I play other races I use the orc units to empower my ranks, as they have some very powerful units like the popular ogre and the siege ram that outmatch the closest human counterparts even without upgrades. The mounted units may not stand toe to toe with other races very well, but if you have enemies with heavily armored foot soldiers or archer lines they will do the same thing they do for everyone else. They also have great spear, that would serve well against reinforcements like you mention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daikl View Post
As you said you don't have enough experience and i strongly recommand you play the race before makeing suggestions.
I note this because I am unable to tell the devs "orcs need this buffed, this nerfed, ect." in a more precise manner. Not that I haven't used them before(or aren't right now for that matter).

Quote:
Originally Posted by daikl View Post
And its not just those fixes,orc have bugs(forrest orc military bonus doenst work,resources reset at 7k to name a few)
Oh and did you check the orc stronghold in comparison with other races?FFS we dont even get one complete wall(and even that's made of wood).
Give the orcs some love!
Bugs are bugs,(swat!) and the stronghold is a great suggestion for this thread, but I do agree that our orcish friends need some love; the question really is in what way and how much.
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  #24  
Old 06-08-2012, 06:41 AM
daikl daikl is offline
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I read some lore about orcs in this game and i want to make a suggestion.
Change the Marsh Orcs military bonus,you said they were massive in size(more hp or dmg or both maybe ) and have best mounted cavalry of orc,yet you gave them more hp and damage for goblins...goblins?!...come on,stay true to the lore/description.
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  #25  
Old 06-08-2012, 05:28 PM
finneas18 finneas18 is offline
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In early beta they had cavalerybonus more hp and dmg but it was removed....
As they removed the armor bonus on some units on the desert orcs
Why ever not bad enough i think so...
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  #26  
Old 06-10-2012, 08:58 AM
daikl daikl is offline
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Can we get a patch preview?
Can the devs tell us what they think of our ideas and what might/might not get implemented?
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  #27  
Old 06-14-2012, 06:35 PM
aramsm aramsm is offline
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So now that Im back... Hi guys,

First to say is that I agree 98% with vicious666, and then with daikl about orcs and then with Zekarde about limit units type. IM STRONGLY AGAINST THIS! We should not have any limit and build our army as we want. And like he says there as a high risk/reward on make an only type army. I want the freedom to choose how my army should be and seeing ppl complainning about this makes me think that they dont know (or dont thought enought) how the army strenght system works. If you make an army with 10 dragons do you really think that you can find any army, like lvl 1 army? No! But I wont extend myself too much about this...(if you guys want to discuss about this I can tell all the reasons I think this "one type army" is not a smart choice, even for dragons).

About gameplay:
Like vicious666 said we need a pve improvement. More levels, more kind of quests, more options of coop, harder units etc. But I would even go farther: although units have levels, their stats are always low and dont match with their level: make them match and make them use abilities and strategies, like "oh Im dieing, I will retreat to rest and heal" or "dam Im being hit by arrows, lets get off archers sight" and then "player's unit are weak now, CHARGE!". They hardly charge or attack in an organized way, when they attack they do that in an indivual way like if they arent a whole army but just a group of guys there. They should choose what unit they should attack like cavalry against archers and healers etc, and focus on our siege weapons on sieges.

Plus, we should have roamming NPC armies, like in Mount and Blade (I dont know if this is possible in DoF but Im suggesting anyway) and be allowed to conquer NPC villages/towns.

Dungeons and bosses are needed too and that might be connected with pvp and territory control. For example a dungeon in rollingplains: only players/guilds that own that zone can have access to it. Bosses and dungeons should give gear... but I know that this is another topic to discuss and maybe impossible to be implemented.

That is my suggestion about the gameplay, wich I think you guys should pay attention because the game is good, is fun but it dont hold the players for so long and that is because there is nothing to do before you build up your town or when no one is online or even when you cant find PvP. Even pvp is meaningless and could be boring after some time. So yeah pve and territory control should fix that.

About units:

Orcs are a joke, really. They are terrible weak, terrible. I didnt play too much with them, even after the patch, but I can say they are weak and their city is un-defendeable. Seriously, a wall with 2,5k of hp... do you think it can stand for how long? And its not even completed wall. To defend this they would need like AEWSOME units, wich they havent. And even if they have what is the point to siege orcs if all the battle will be out walls??? I suggest to give up of the idea that they must have sh*t walls... maybe two walls with a fewer less HP than elven and men would be good, but not "one incomplete wood wall with 2,5k".

About units, Idk now but I doubt that HP boost fixed the problem. The thing is that in DoF I found that armor is the skill that is most powerful. Doesnt matter how much damage or hp your enemie's units have, if you have 70+ armor they WILL die. And that is what happen. Elves can reach 75 armor in all categories, with GM fence skill they take 95, if orcs do 600 damage my GM will suffer 30 of damage (with GM fence) and 150 without it... and orcs dont do 600 of damage. Also they have a pretty low armor. So when they start scratching my units armor they should be dead (50% of armor if I remember and 65 for slayers).

My question is: should armors be in % or just damage reduction like -10, -20 etc?? I really not sure about this, I want to know what you guys think about it because sometimes I dont think that an unit with 600 damage should have its dps reduced to 30... but I really dont know.

Well I would like to test more orcs against someone (maybe daikl who is one that play with them) because Idk how they are working after the last patch. But still there is main concern about orcs, and this upset me a little:
THEY NEED HEALERS. Why do you guys added new heroes and didnt add any way to orcs heal themself?? I know that you guys want to add shamans with magic, but even so this is not excuse for dont add any healer for them, even a provisory one.

Bugs:
All this we have to keep in mind that there are bugs. I mean is hard to know if elves need some nerf since their fire shots are not working, hidden units can be seen by players and fog of war is not working. I also getting my resources resetted when I reach 7k (thx daikl for the tip, I didnt notice that this happens when I reach 7k but I can see that now - but Im elf so its not only for orcs).

-Fix fog of war (high priority), so we can make strategies (like flank attacks, surprises and traps).
-No fire in water (marsh lands get fire).
-All that vicious666 said before about bugs.
-Fix elven fire shots and sunstone (its not healing).
-Fix elven formations.

Last edited by aramsm : 06-14-2012 at 06:46 PM.
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  #28  
Old 06-14-2012, 07:07 PM
daikl daikl is offline
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Since i can't pvp(out of sync,stuck loading screen) we'll just have to see what we can do.
Nice ideas,the armor suggestion is actualy very good.
Just because they are orcs doesn't mean they are dumb and can't build walls(ie Black Gate of Mordor from LoTR);i know,i know we are the offensive races(on paper at least) but offensive doesn't mean stupid,why would i build a wooden wall here,then some palisade,then other wooden wall,its like screaming "hey attackers why bother with 3k wall,come here and destroy 2x900hp pallisades,they dont even have anti-siege mecanics,like stone tippers".Of the 3 regions the Forrest Orcs have the best 'looking' fortress ,best looking as in it's walls look complete.Maybe in the future you could redesign some of them(marsh,desert)
Oh and talk to us guys,we really wana help make this game great,tell us what you think so far.
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  #29  
Old 06-14-2012, 07:55 PM
aramsm aramsm is offline
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Yeah daikl. Because the way it is now its too armor centered, and most new players doesnt know that and spent points in other skills. Only archers and healers you should do that. If we have a different mechanic we could think of wich unit we will invest on armor and wich we dont. For example: every unit should start with some armor, tanks with higher values and archers with lower (like it is now). Then for each point you spent you increase this value (we should have a mechanic that make each point more expensive than the first one or more ineffiecient). The thing is if its not % some troops wont cause damage, so you might think: oh this unit I have to focus X points on damage in case my enemy has 1/2X point on armor, and that other unit Ill focus 2X points on damage etc. With % system 600 of damage, 500, 400 and 300 will cause 150, 125, 100 and 95 of damage respectively against a melee unit with 75% of armor (in any categorie). So, if you look closely 300 is half of 600 and cause half damage (95), but if the armor was just a negative value, if you get a 300 armor a 300 attack wont cause any damage but still a 600 will cause 300 instead of 150.

But Idk if its better, because could be a little frustating to cause no damage and lost all your army... However, worried about that, ppl would probably spend points on damage. But still there is a risk that everyone spent points on armor and none can deliver any damage. Maybe % mechanic is indeed better, but there is something wrong with it or with damage because DPS units, like blademasters, die really fast and my tanks are always more powerful and deadly (when I send them its over, or I kill everyone or I loose the battle).

Guys (staff) if you can help us here, like say what you have already tested, show all units stats since I dont know for sure orcs and men stats (cap stats), what are your concepts about the game like "we want that but not this".

All in all I can conclude two things: 1) fog of war need to be fixed, 2) and orcs need healers to get start in pvp.

Last edited by aramsm : 06-14-2012 at 08:00 PM.
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  #30  
Old 06-14-2012, 11:04 PM
daikl daikl is offline
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Orc healers are not a priority in my opinion as an avid orc player.I'd rather have them make orc be true to the lore.
>i still hope to see hybrid melee/range orc berzerkers(Xman wishlist )(this could be easily implemented as a skill with cooldown,like dragon fireball,i press skill button,select target and my berzerkers fire a volley of arrows)
>orc cavalry doesnt get any upgrades and its pretty weak,didnt used them that much but when i did they performed unsatisfactory
>orc berzerkers could use some upgrades as well

Your ideas aramsm about armor made me think and i've got some ideas,if they'll make sense i'll update the post later.
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