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Old 01-21-2011, 12:41 PM
akyko akyko is offline
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I some what doubt influence will be something you can trade between players if it is, yes, it could encourage gold farmer spam. I'm sure it will be something high but if it to high and give you a huge advantage, they're going to lose quite a bit of the F2P market. But unless these special quest and expansions give you extra damage to all units or some sort of overpower units, they wont matter all expansions will do is possibly change gameplay styles if everything is balanced correctly and special quest seem like to me they'll just be new mission or maps to play.

I don't think HoN or LoL has better gameplay both get more characters add its just did you pay for the game and its update or do you want to play for the updates or pay for it. Its more so HoN has a better player base because people don't want to get banned for leaving because it costs them money to play while LoL is free and most people haven't spent much on it and up til a little bit ago there wasn't a lot of enforcement on leavers or spoiling games which they're all changing and has already shown a ton of improvement. And if I'm correct were still paying for the game at that start so it isn't completely F2P so as long as there good enforcement people will be civil because they wont be able to just make a new account.

I'm guessing this is a Lol reference also, does cosmetics really change anything its just changing the model not giving any real advantage(except maybe some sort of mental psych-out being like "Oh they must really be good with character better keep an eye out") It just means you really like that cosmetic change. Even if you don't want to pay you can mod them for your own viewing pleasure if your really wanted too.

In the long run, yes, a F2P will probably cost a hardcore fan of the game more money or time but will bring in more players for them to play with. While P2P will still cost you maybe not as much depending on how much content is released per payment period but will lessen the starting player base.

Last edited by akyko : 01-21-2011 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 01-21-2011, 02:20 PM
DeliCious DeliCious is offline
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I Guess i just miss the days where i could just buy a game and get the full game. without someone trying to scam me, for more money constantly with small annoying little DLC that should just be included free of charge. with an expansion added once every year or so.

And btw in LoL and battleforge and LOTRO you dont just buy cosmetics you buy yourself ahead.

Whether it be Cards for Battleforge, Stat tomes to LOTRO, Runes and Heroes LoL, Influence points to DoW.

HoN tho offers superior gameplay and only offers cosmetics for sale. without a subscription. So i find it hard to belive that the Good people at Reverie studios cant just make a subscription based MMORTS and leave this scaming hustling people buisness alone.
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Old 01-21-2011, 03:04 PM
TriggerHappyNDB TriggerHappyNDB is offline
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Del, I really think you're blowing the micro-transaction model out of proportion in terms of how regularly it is used to exploit players, and to what extent when it is. After studying business in college and spending a good deal of time analyzing the F2P and P2P models out of personal interest in the market, I say with confidence that, while F2P has the potential for greater earnings based on what a company decides to actually sell, the P2P model is not the only potentially respectable model available to developers.

I've played WoW for a long time, and Blizzard uses both a P2P model and a micro-transaction model simultaneously; You pay monthly fees for the core game that everyone has equal access to (granted the time to do so) and you opt to pay other, additional fees for purely cosmetic items or character services such as name, faction, or server changes. Do these micro-transactions break the game? Not at all. They strengthen the game by offering a variety of optional tools and cosmetic perks to players and supplementing the income of the developer, who needs sustained income to stay in business and support their game. The overheard costs for a game in the MMO meta-genre are staggering--the development, ideally, never really stops.

Blizzard's content patches usually come monthly--ostensibly we could then say that WoW players like myself pay $15 per patch. That doesn't even account for the expansions or base game client, which are paid for separately.

DoF really is approaching the same function with a different pay model. You will simply be able to choose when and in what order to apply those content patches and pay for them individually, rather than forcibly each month. The fundamental difference is that balance changes, which Blizzard puts in each monthly patch, will be given to you for free, apart from these updates. Ironically, this actually makes DoF's model a better value for you, the customer.

I only just recently heard about and took interest in DoF, but what I've seen is not the talk of greedy, manipulative game designers working to create a platform for extortion disguised as a video game. The RTS genre hasn't had many successful forays into the MMO meta-genre, and few would be willing to put down a monthly fee for access. They're just making the appropriate business moves in the interest of their development time. If you so vehemently desire them to "Scrap it all toghether [sic]" rather than adopt a feasible and potentially consumer-friendly model, you might be better off finding another MMORTS game that suits your tastes more closely.

As for me and mine, we'll be watching DoF eagerly to see how they approach their chosen payment model. It's a simple matter of not creating a vast gap between "haves" and "have-nots" through micro-transactions; easily avoided by not selling tactical advantages for real world money, which I have seen no indication of whatsoever.
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Old 01-21-2011, 03:05 PM
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Hmm that seems to be a matter of personal opinion. I'd rather not have a monthly fee and have for pay DLC. Also keep in mind that stronger units cost more money. So it's not like getting super units for the same cost when playing someone who didn't pay up in pvp.
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Old 01-21-2011, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by DeliCious View Post
Here's a nice Quote "F2P brings significantly more profit to the developers than a subscription model"" From Lito. Lets Translate, saying that this game will cost more then a subscription based MMO if you wanna enjoy it fully. Recent Trends are BS move away from money sucking and fast.
I don't think you understood me properly. What I meant is that F2P attracts significantly more players, all of which pay very little but considering the rise in activity it all adds up to bring more profit. Profit that goes to developing the game and adding features they couldn't have previously with a lower budget.

You can still subscribe to LOTRO with $15 a month and get all the quests and everything else. I have noticed that the quest packs in LOTRO do cost a lot, but if you pay $15 per month you get them all.

Either way, like Trigger said you seem to be blowing this out of proportion, instantly judging DoF for scamming your money before you've even played it and generally flaming the F2P model that games currently use without properly analyzing it.
And don't forget that DoF is not F2P. It will get a majority of its' proft from the one time buy model. The influence micro-transactions will be fairly minimal and will be as Joseph mentioned mainly used for extra quests and such for you to do if you want.

Seriously, you seem to be taking a bit of a too large concern about this. Reverie is just an indie company, we honestly have no intention of making a money sucker game.
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Old 01-21-2011, 03:34 PM
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Henry Martin Henry Martin is offline
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Delicious like litos and triggerhappy are saying, you are blowing this out of proportion. First of the influence that you can get, you either can pay for it will real money or earn it in game (read the FAQs thread).

"Q: What is Influence?
A: Influence is a fifth resource that can be accumulated as a reward for questing and warfare. Influence can then be spent on DLC and expansion packs in lieu of real money, allowing everyone to upgrade their game with the newest quests and content without paying a dime if they are active enough players."

Secondly in DOF you are getting the whole game, you don't have to spend money on influence points if you don't want too, like I mentioned be for you earn it in game. Personally I don't like paying a monthly subscription on a game I just spent 50-60 $ on, But be given the option to pay a little bit for something extra if I want too.
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Old 01-21-2011, 05:07 PM
GoGoCactusMan! GoGoCactusMan! is offline
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As I have said in other posts, I would like to see brainstorming on options in multiple different models with multiple different advantages.

I for one am a gamer where I will gladly shell out the money for something if it is worth it.

So far, I feel the system that Reverie is setting up seems sound, and somewhat similar to EVE to a certain extent. EVE also has a system in place where you can actually buy your monthly subscription with in game money, similar to how some DLC with DoF will be purchasable by people with enough in game Influence.

So far, we have not seen anything that would cause for alarm with game balance due to the implementation of this system, so I feel like DeliCious is sort of missing what Reverie is actually doing with the game.

Going back to what I said near the top though, I would be willing to pay for the game via a sub or micro transaction if there was content that was worth while. I fear that unless the studio can feed MEANINGFUL content at a steady pace, I will see the community (that is pretty impressive to me so far) dwindle through waning interest.

Also, the being able to buy content with Influence makes me wonder a bit about the rate at which you can earn it. I know how you earn it, but I'm curious as to how it all translates. If its too easy, then barely anyone will actually be paying the studio money for future content (save for physical expansions) and I wouldn't want to see the game go under because of this.
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Old 01-21-2011, 05:53 PM
Ichigo Ichigo is offline
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I prefer the option to pay as I go model, so if I am playing the game a lot one month maybe I can acquire a lot influence and get new content, but if I have a busy month and can't play as much, I won't be hit with the 15/ monthly fee for a game I don't play (I'm looking at you WoW!)

From what I can tell the way they plan on setting it up is about as good as it can get with being fair to all players as much as possible. I guess what it will come down to is if the extra content is worth the cost in money or influence.

In the end you can still play this game without being forced to pay a monthly fee. If you like the game, you can spend 5,10,15 bucks a month on extras. I don't really see that as a negative.
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Old 01-21-2011, 07:14 PM
akyko akyko is offline
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Originally Posted by DeliCious View Post
I Guess i just miss the days where i could just buy a game and get the full game. without someone trying to scam me, for more money constantly with small annoying little DLC that should just be included free of charge. with an expansion added once every year or so.

And by the way in LoL and Battleforge and LOTRO you dont just buy cosmetics you buy yourself ahead.

Whether it be Cards for Battleforge, Stat tomes to LOTRO, Runes and Heroes LoL, Influence points to DoW.

HoN tho offers superior gameplay and only offers cosmetics for sale. without a subscription. So i find it hard to believe that the Good people at Reverie studios cant just make a subscription based MMORTS and leave this scamming hustling people business alone.
Like a few others have said i think your blowing things out of proportion, you don't know the cost of the DLC in points or actual money or how many points you'll get per game or mission.

You will be getting a full game it includes: 3 game modes(Online Kingdom(MMORTS), Kingdom Wars(Single), and Skirmish Mode(Coop or Single), 3 Races(Man, Orcs, Elves), and a map editor.

You don't have to buy yourself ahead in any of those games you can spend time to get them.

Battleforge: I'll agree you cant PvP very well with just F2P cards, but there are tutorial videos out there of players doing Expert PvE videos with them. If you want to PvP go spend 10$ and buy the real game on amazon for 32 more cards + 3000 BFP which can get you alot of cards. I think that what the most expensive card is around 1300 and most of those are just for ease of use in PvE and they're that expensive because they're Amii Edition which is limited because that deck isn't out yet. Average useful Rare/Ultra is probably 100-200.

LOTRO: Dunno much about it so can't say anything about that one.

LoL: Heroes are supposed to be balanced, so your not really getting any advantage just a new play style, and you can buy them with IP(6300IP or 7.50$ for the most expensive) which means every month they release 2 new characters you either can spend 15$(A normal sub price) or play 450IP worth of games a day(First Win(250) + 6 Bot Farms(70*6=350) doing that should take you around 2hrs a day. (2 Games(30min each 50% win chance) + 12min per practice game). Runes: 3x HP Quints (3x2050=6150IP) 9x Red (410x9=3690IP) 9x Blue(410x9=3690IP) 9x Yellow(410x9=3690IP) or a total of 17220IP and you cant buy runes with RP, so you cant buy yourself ahead here either, so it takes you about a 2months of just "First Wins" to build a full Rune Page.

DoW: Unless Dwarfs and Dragon add-ons are so brokenly overpowered you cant win with the 3 included races. You can take your time and earn the influence in-game unless you want to play their play style right away, and if they're that overpowered somethings is wrong and people will notice and quit or complain.

Last edited by akyko : 01-21-2011 at 07:24 PM. Reason: Clarification / Grammer
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Old 01-21-2011, 11:10 PM
Dalkor Dalkor is offline
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Like I said earlier, If you want to pay to play add 15$ to your account each month and use it towards the DLC when it comes out, from the way it sounds you will quite quickly have so many influence points that you won't know what to do with them all.

In the end, don't knock it before you try it.
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