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  #1  
Old 07-30-2010, 10:41 PM
Raulaun Raulaun is offline
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Default 'Hardcore' mode

It would be pretty cool if there was a mode in the open world where you could create a city in the 'hardcore' realm and if your castle died there, it wouldnt come back and you would have to start over. Also there should be a ladder added to it and have it reset every 3-6 months with the top 10 players earning influence points/achievements/other prizes.
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Old 07-31-2010, 05:31 AM
nickson104 nickson104 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raulaun View Post
It would be pretty cool if there was a mode in the open world where you could create a city in the 'hardcore' realm and if your castle died there, it wouldnt come back and you would have to start over. Also there should be a ladder added to it and have it reset every 3-6 months with the top 10 players earning influence points/achievements/other prizes.
Pretty sure the first idea has been mentioned, but thats not a bad thing I think its great that more people share this idea, because the 'hardcore' mode seems great, instead of buildings just being taken down to foundations and repairable, destroy them fully. Make lands occupiable perhaps?

Also I think we have mentioned ranking ladders. Although I dont think anyone mentioned rewarding them for being near the top... Achievements perhaps, maybe some points could be awarded. But isnt the bragging rights enough?
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Old 08-03-2010, 06:07 PM
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I don't think a hardcore mode would really work for DOF. In an RPG with hardcore mode, you can just opt out of a PvP attack with no penalty and concentrate only on PvE. But with Dawn of Fantasy, you have to pay tribute to divert an attack, meaning that the stronger players can just hassle the newer players until they are completely broke and cannot build up an army.
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Old 08-04-2010, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Walz View Post
I don't think a hardcore mode would really work for DOF. In an RPG with hardcore mode, you can just opt out of a PvP attack with no penalty and concentrate only on PvE. But with Dawn of Fantasy, you have to pay tribute to divert an attack, meaning that the stronger players can just hassle the newer players until they are completely broke and cannot build up an army.
That is too bad...

I really believe a hardcore server would do well with DOF. RTS games are typically about besting your opponent. Overall destruction and or take-over of your enemies base ends the game -generally speaking. I know...I know...DOF is different. It has a persistant world. But at the heart is it not a RTS?

I understand that adding a persistant online world to the mix is something new but I don't think city take-over or complete city destruction needs to be avoided just because it is a MMORTS.

Personally, I have more fun with a game where something is at stake.

As a player, I want to be the one that has control over such things. I want as much freedom as possible. I want to be able to DESTROY or take over that person who plundered my village! I want to be able to be destroyed in return!

I play a MMORPG called Darkfall. There is no way of "opting out" of PVP there. If you are in the wilderness killing bears and a guy wants to kill you and take your stuff, he is going to try. It adds an "edge" to the game...Makes it fun. Yes, it is hardcore. Some people will argue that it is a bad game design. No. Those people had a choice. They could play the game or not. Play World of WarCraft if you don't like it!

Anyway, I believe a hardcore server would be very popular for DOF. Management of cities, alliances etc would be much more crucial to overall survival. There would be something at stake if someone knew they could be completely and totally anihilated.

I'm not knocking the game as is now, just would very much like to see a "hard-core mode" released for those gamers that enjoy such a challenge.
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Old 08-05-2010, 02:38 PM
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Fragmenting the player base is not an option on release. I really doubt our position on that changes.

I'd like to bring up one thing, you say you like hardcore, now me I do too. I played Shadowbane and Darkfall among others, these two games were notorious for their various death penalties yet still being a PVP game.

There's no way to make a Lose you Die server, not that we'd want multiple servers to begin with. More importantly, we don't need that sort of gimmick to provide a high level competitive game in MMORTS. Much like in Darkfall there were guild level objectives, in DFO these were the cities and later on sea towers and other random stuff. In our game, what we plan I can't say, but there is a great deal of potential for guild level things. While in normal PVP the losses aren't that great, it's entirely possible to create a Guild vs Guild system that has more risk and reward.

These are just random ideas I've thought of on the spot, mind you, not fully fleshed out ideas all the same -

Guild Cities that can be conquered in wars between guilds rather than the individual player city which would KILL a player and all their tech etc. But it still provides a high risk high reward objective to compete over.

Another thing we could do is simply make it so guilds at war with each other inflict greater damage when defeating another player, perhaps certain things are destroyed, more resources taken, long term impact for losing etc. There's plenty we can do for higher levels of play to provide the competition and Risk Reward that makes gaming fun for people like us without an absurd and unfitting Permadeath that in all honesty is a gimmick.


I might discuss this further might not, but I've played pretty much every Hardcore game on the market from D2, SB, DFO, UO among others, but permadeath is and always will be a gimmick that adds very little to a game unless the game is designed from the ground up around it. There are better, healthier alternatives for the game that give the high level of risk/reward needed for fun, meaningful PVP.
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Old 08-06-2010, 01:40 AM
Raulaun Raulaun is offline
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I Like the extra destruction idea with guilds, I suppose i can settle on it..
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Old 08-06-2010, 05:35 AM
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It is extremely unlikely to see a hardcore server of it's own, that's just how it is, I could go on as to why but I'd rather discuss realistic things you want to see than why this probably won't happen. So feel free to suggest, as detailed or vague as you like, the sort of things you'd like to see regarding risk/reward. You like the extra destruction, expand on it, be detailed.

Keep in mind all of this is merely my free time, and independent thoughts, none of this is part of the game design right now. Just musing of my own since I can't share actual game design.

For destruction, lets say when a guild declares war as I said in the other thread they have to pay a large amount of money up front, then a continuing amount to carry on the war. The price is relative to the strength of each guild, if a vastly superior guild wants to declare war on a far weaker one then they will have to pay significantly more if we even allow them to. Now, war could allow players to pick their targets rather than use the matchmaking. It could allow you to actually destroy some buildings, maybe steal some technology or clone it (Either removing their tech and giving it to yourself, or they keep the tech and you get it as well respectively) take all instead of some resources, this sort of thing. The more one-sided a war becomes, the more the aggressor has to pay to keep it up etc etc.

As for the guild city thing perhaps you think there should only be a limited amount of guild cities for players to fight over, so there's forced competition, the cities would give large bonuses to the controlling guild. Or perhaps each guild has it's own city, say the bonuses from these cities should come from beating other players at their cities rather than passively, say you take a Trophy from your enemies and this trophy gives a small bonus to the combat stats, exp gain or resource gathering rates of all your members. Or a combination of both, so you can level up your city with resources, but there's also an incentive to fight other players rather than just playing multiplayer sim city?

Give me ideas I can work with, and I'll be happy to. I don't want you to "settle" on a game you don't want, but you need to be realistic and work towards achievable things. I think we can all agree there are other ways to make a game the hardcore subset of gamer can enjoy without permanent death, so think of what those things are and tell us your thoughts. This goes to all of you, not one person in particular.
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Last edited by Josh Warner : 08-06-2010 at 05:43 AM.
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Old 08-06-2010, 04:17 PM
Raulaun Raulaun is offline
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Sorry about that, my mind looks a little different than people other than myself, I was trying to say it in a thoughtful tune, not an unhappy tune. (No, really, this happens all the time.)

These 'Trophies' Could be large statues at display in your city, if a guild sieged you, it could be toppled, put on a large wagon and towed away. So I suppose just furthering risk/reward would be great. I don't think they should benefit troop stats aside from morale. How does a giant statue help you swing a sword? Resource gain would be great as a statue could be motivational to workers. Maybe statues could also be 'landmarks' which can be anything from lighthouses to figureheads that turn your ship into a Fleet Admirable which gives your ships an aura that increases morale when near. This could also be the same with standard-bearing such as religious artifacts held in boxes supported by planks.

And I only use suggestions as a conversation piece to muse about features/tell the community what im interested in. Aside, I love your answers, the team is great to the community and i'm definitely buying the game.
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Old 08-06-2010, 06:42 PM
SoCalDistortion SoCalDistortion is offline
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My thanks to both Josh and Alex in addressing this post.

I can tell this is a Dev team that is interested in feedback from the community. It reminds me of the early days of DFO-back when it was called "vaporware" My hat is off to you fellas. Also nice to meet a fellow DFO'er.

I have some ideas that I will be posting here. Some of what I am thinking is hard to convey unless I know how conquest or capturing of territories works in DOF. I don't expect a response to that as I know you may still be working out specific features during beta.

That said, I'll post some specific examples... I was holding out hope that you folks MIGHT model DOF after the popular Tribal Wars game. I was hoping DOF would have that kind of kingdom expansion/conquest model. It's not permadeath...BUT, you do have to start from scratch at the edge of the map once defeated.
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Old 08-06-2010, 07:48 PM
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Darkfall was vaporware until the first day of the closed beta (Not friends and family) and to some, even later lol. But yes I recall the days when that dev team frequented IRC and talked to fans rather than posting an announcement every few months and an interview even less frequently.


Right now what I can tell you, is that you will physically rule only one city, there is no plan right now at least to allow more than one. Extra objectives however are still well within the realm of possibility. Guild cities, Mining towns, Ports, Lumbermills, quarries etc. That sort of thing might have one "Map" per region, or race, but most likely at least a few of them within each region just sharing the same terrain but being in different parts of the region for players to fight over.

I came up with that off the top of my head, it's easily expandable. Conquering player cities just isn't going to happen I don't think, there's no way a player could control that many cities to begin with, and we want long term progression for players, the tech tree for example will take several months at least, the idea of a player being forced to simply start over so easily goes against the grain of a long-term game. I know travian and a lot of browser games run on lets call them "Resets" where there are victory conditions, then the whole world resets for every player. That's not something that is being considered I don't think, something about wiping progress and a game players have to purchase I can't imagine that going over well with most. Also, unlike browser games you need to be involved in your economy, there's no upgrade X building, attack player A,B,C and go do something else for a few hours. We plan to keep the player engaged the entire time they play our game.
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Last edited by Josh Warner : 08-06-2010 at 07:52 PM.
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