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  #21  
Old 04-03-2010, 01:33 PM
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Sounds good. We'll see how it all plays out.
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  #22  
Old 04-03-2010, 11:00 PM
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We won't allow players to dodge fights without a very steep penalty, we've already outlined this in other posts how the surrender/fight options will work. And we certainly won't allow people an effective way to play and be productive while impervious to attack, conflict is part of the game.
Now hold on there, mate: That's two different points of view. I'm aware that you've outlined three ways that conflict CAN wpork: AI, Playing it, or paying them off, but my point was on creating the absence of conflict by logging out, possibly preserving your units.

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Firstly, it's pretty easy to make it so you auto-forfeit if you log out before/during an attack. Second, there can be added a set amount of time you have to be on before it counts as being on towards persistence.
That's very true, and both are extremely good solutions to one aspect of the problem. That being said, it seems you didn't consider this as an exploit, as it has not been done yet.


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Second, there can be added a set amount of time you have to be on before it counts as being on towards persistence. So set that for an hour, if you don't stay on for an hour then you do not gain any persistent gathering/building etc. And if you do play for more than an hour, then 1-2 hours of reduced productivity, say half, then 2-4 more of around a quarter productivity perhaps. These numbers are just examples but they should illustrate the point.
+1, now you're seeing how this could be a problem, and you solved it pretty darn well in my opinion.

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AI isn't the best option, it'll never be as good as a player unless we make it cheat which just causes a myriad of other problems.
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Most people don't want to lose everything just because they can't play for a day, and with only being able to rely on AI... They would.
AI is never the best option, but in this case it should be THE option when logging out. This supplies people with enemies constantly and creates both interest and tension, and an urge to get back online. By shifting the algorithm used to match players to queue in favor PvP, you do a couple of things: You actually give players less of a chance to be attacked while away, you provide people with more active opponents, and you'll always have a statistically fair match. That being said, some people will be ****ed off if they get the short straw, but from what I've outlined, I do think that an intensive Pro/Con debate is in order once we get to the MMO stage of testing.

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We're putting a lot of thought into how we'll do this, and we'll be adjusting it during beta if need be. We wouldn't let something so easy to exploit live long in beta, much less on live. We won't allow players to dodge fights without a very steep penalty.
You came up with fixes very fast, so I absolutely have confidence in you guys. Keep in mind that I'm just bringing up a weakness that I saw in that, and it seems that you guys now have that under control.
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  #23  
Old 04-04-2010, 01:05 PM
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These are pretty simple problems honestly, and ones we've already discussed internally quite a bit. We're not going to spend time working on them when we have more important things to do however, combine this with the fact that they're the sort of things that require actual playtesting and feedback rather than speculation to implement properly, and it's just not worth doing yet.

Just because we haven't outlined all of our plans, doesn't mean we don't have them

Wait until you've tried the game before worrying too much.
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Last edited by Josh Warner : 04-04-2010 at 01:07 PM.
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  #24  
Old 04-04-2010, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otomotopia View Post
AI is never the best option, but in this case it should be THE option when logging out. This supplies people with enemies constantly and creates both interest and tension, and an urge to get back online. By shifting the algorithm used to match players to queue in favor PvP, you do a couple of things: You actually give players less of a chance to be attacked while away, you provide people with more active opponents, and you'll always have a statistically fair match. That being said, some people will be ****ed off if they get the short straw, but from what I've outlined, I do think that an intensive Pro/Con debate is in order once we get to the MMO stage of testing.
But by doing this whoever logs out to has a good chance that when they get back most of their troops are going to be dead and their buildings destroyed. I feel I can safely say no one wants to be thinking I'm going on vacation by the time I get back I'll probably have no soldiers or buildings left. Also, there is probably not going to be a shortage of people to attack and by doing this attackers are most likely going to go for the person who is offline rather than online because they know it is an easy win.

Last edited by metman : 04-04-2010 at 05:34 PM.
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  #25  
Old 04-04-2010, 01:53 PM
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Easy man...Let's see how it plays out. Remember this is a game and so the game may not be realistic in that you get 50% soldiers back after you're town is sacked etc etc. Let's give it time to develop for a while.
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  #26  
Old 04-04-2010, 02:55 PM
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Well also at mmorpg games (like WoW) you cant be attacked while offline even tho your character is persistent (at DoF you have instead kingdom). So noeone can stab you while you are "sleeping" ingame and noeone is complaining there about it ... =).
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  #27  
Old 04-04-2010, 04:32 PM
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Disclaimer: I want to clear something up here before I post: I may seem fired up about this, but I'm not attempting to bash the game or insult/flame/start something with anyone or anything. I'm just posting my thoughts on this aspect of the game based on information we've recieved.

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Originally Posted by metman View Post
Ok basically by saying this you want anyone who ever logs out to have like a 95% chance that when they get back most of their troops are going to be dead and their buildings destroyed. I feel I can safely say no one wants to be thinking I'm going on vacation by the time I get back I'll probably have no soldiers or buildings left. Also, there is probably not going to be a shortage of people to attack and by doing this attackers are most likely going to go for the person who is offline rather than online because they know it is an easy win.
No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that there should be a chance that you can be attacked, but still give players that are online a much better chance of being attacked. When the players online have an extremely slim chance of winning, put it to the AI.

There's a huge counterpoint to what the current system has, though.

The scenario: I'm ONLINE. I've got a medocre army, a small seige train, and some basic fortifications. There's six other players online who've barely started, and three people who are nearing the end of their research, and have over twenty battalions that are over level seven.

There's an enemy who's much, much stronger then I am, with a good veteran army and a small but teched-up seige train. He's coming to my territory. He will will absolutely murder the new players, and every wave he'd send out would die under the whithering fire the advanced players have at their disposal. Then there's me, who the enemy player can easily defeat.

Offline, theres three players who have at their disposal (at least) the capacity to defend well against that player.

Now, This player will have to fight someone. I've drawn the short straw and I'm actually the closest person in my territory to his level that's online. So basically, I'm dead.

With this current match system, I have no choice but to fight him. He'll probably toy with me and crush me. And because I'm ONLINE, despite there being a much more even fight with players that are OFFLINE, I'm actually at a huge disadvantage because I'm logged in and others are not.

Your thoughts?
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Last edited by otomotopia : 04-04-2010 at 04:34 PM.
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  #28  
Old 04-04-2010, 05:03 PM
Kire Kire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otomotopia View Post
The scenario: I'm ONLINE. I've got a medocre army, a small seige train, and some basic fortifications. There's six other players online who've barely started, and three people who are nearing the end of their research, and have over twenty battalions that are over level seven.

There's an enemy who's much, much stronger then I am, with a good veteran army and a small but teched-up seige train. He's coming to my territory. He will will absolutely murder the new players, and every wave he'd send out would die under the whithering fire the advanced players have at their disposal. Then there's me, who the enemy player can easily defeat.

Offline, theres three players who have at their disposal (at least) the capacity to defend well against that player.

Now, This player will have to fight someone. I've drawn the short straw and I'm actually the closest person in my territory to his level that's online. So basically, I'm dead.

With this current match system, I have no choice but to fight him. He'll probably toy with me and crush me. And because I'm ONLINE, despite there being a much more even fight with players that are OFFLINE, I'm actually at a huge disadvantage because I'm logged in and others are not.

Your thoughts?
I dont think match making system works in way that it gives the closest one but rather random enemies at your lvl of disposal (something like WoW bg .... its only for 10-19 lvl for example and it wont start if too few of right lvl are in queue even if there are thousands lvl 40).
And i dont think you could know that someone is going to attack you before he really do it (when hes already at your gates). So there arent possibility to hide from that fight, maybe if you just log in quick, start building or research and quick log out =).
Thats what i imagine it can be =).
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  #29  
Old 04-04-2010, 05:18 PM
metman metman is offline
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Sorry the way I phrased that was quite thick headed but we're just going to have to see how it works when we get to play the game. Every system has its pros and cons and that's why we have betas to see which system is better.

Last edited by metman : 04-04-2010 at 05:38 PM.
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  #30  
Old 04-04-2010, 05:42 PM
Negthareas Negthareas is offline
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This is partially why I suggested a while ago that offline players could be attacked and defended by an appropriate AI. However, the defender's persistent kingdom would take no persistent damage. The attacker would merely get looting privileges if victorious.

In many cases, most often, players, even dumb ones, are harder to defeat than easy or medium AI's.

Therefore, the offline player's would be attacked for gain, but would not suffer loss, while the new online player's would be spared.

Obviously, an attacker should get more from looting an online player, but not that much. Maybe his honor or something should be much greater, but besides that there would be little difference.
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