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  #41  
Old 02-21-2010, 09:31 PM
Justin Justin is offline
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Agreed, whether I have seen them before or not they still look good.
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  #42  
Old 02-22-2010, 06:34 AM
Thechampio2 Thechampio2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Negthareas View Post
So is this the circumstances...

Archer -

long creation time
Good Range
Fast fire rate
innefective against plate armor unless at point blank range

Crossbowman -

short creation time
short range
slow fire rate
massive velocity - effective against all units reguardless of armor
This is helpful to me. I prefer the huge range for some hit and run tactics. I love infuriating the enemy by thinking he's got me then stringing him along and pecking away at his health. Haha!
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  #43  
Old 02-22-2010, 07:02 AM
blackfang blackfang is offline
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i like crossbows
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  #44  
Old 02-22-2010, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Arrows would simply bounce off plated armor short of nearly point blank ranges.
Arrows weren't quite so ineffective against heavily-armoured soldiers. Longbows, for instance, were renowned more for their ability to spear knights like crabs at longer ranges, rather than actually firing a lot further than conventional bows. Conventional bows shouldn't be next to useless against armoured units - they never were, and never should be!
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  #45  
Old 02-22-2010, 12:56 PM
blackfang blackfang is offline
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... then again you have the muslim foot archers. They could take out whole templar platoons with their bows and they were a more powerful version of shortbow that could shoot about twice or three times the lenght of a normal bow
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  #46  
Old 02-22-2010, 01:29 PM
welshie welshie is offline
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im glad you put the units and things the way you have, this is way more realistic. It's why the army turned to guns and crossbows away from longbows when they did, Cheaper to train the soilders and took less time. Even tho they were alot less effective as shown in early cursades when the kings chose lots of crossbows in stead of Longbowmen, and when they came up against fast moving/reloading archers they got pwned. I hope this is how the game will move on
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  #47  
Old 02-22-2010, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puppeteer View Post
Arrows weren't quite so ineffective against heavily-armoured soldiers. Longbows, for instance, were renowned more for their ability to spear knights like crabs at longer ranges, rather than actually firing a lot further than conventional bows. Conventional bows shouldn't be next to useless against armoured units - they never were, and never should be!
Longbows were only effective inside a short range, point blank was an exaggeration. It's still a very short distance compared to a bolt where against plate/shields they would be effective. And again, the real problem was to USE a longbow you needed a lifetime of training or you'd get maybe a few weak shots off before being exhausted. I've used a real longbow, not a compound bow.. I can fully appreciate why the skeletons of Longbowman showed signs of one arm being significantly larger than the other lol.


As far as our archers, I'm not sure if they're considered longbows or if we'll even make that sort of distinction. It might be easier to balance them around a more.. average? size bow. Considering training time in an MMORTS, which is historically the largest drawback of the longbow by a mile, is almost completely irrelevant lol.
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Last edited by Josh Warner : 02-22-2010 at 04:36 PM.
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  #48  
Old 02-22-2010, 07:22 PM
DarkMaster DarkMaster is offline
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A lot of the reason longbows were so effective against armoured knights was that they would wound the comparatively unarmoured horses, making them fall and therefore injuring or killing the severely beaten-up riders. Bear in mind also that seeing thousands of arrows coming towards you, blacking out the sky is very intimidating and demoralising. The bombardment would also significantly slow the enemy charge.

So yeah, longbows could only outright go through armour at short(ish) range, but they definitely had their uses at long range.

Anyway, I reckon realism is really important when it comes to projectiles. It's good to see you're doing that to a large extent in this game.
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  #49  
Old 02-22-2010, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkMaster View Post
A lot of the reason longbows were so effective against armoured knights was that they would wound the comparatively unarmoured horses, making them fall and therefore injuring or killing the severely beaten-up riders. Bear in mind also that seeing thousands of arrows coming towards you, blacking out the sky is very intimidating and demoralising. The bombardment would also significantly slow the enemy charge.

So yeah, longbows could only outright go through armour at short(ish) range, but they definitely had their uses at long range.

Anyway, I reckon realism is really important when it comes to projectiles. It's good to see you're doing that to a large extent in this game.
That was an oversight in the wording, yeah they're amazing against lightly armored targets at even the longest ranges. They retain enough power to punch through mail rings with the right head, and easily through leather.


And yeah, that's one of my favorite things about the engine, rather than just a % chance to either hit or miss it's a real spread.
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  #50  
Old 02-22-2010, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkMaster View Post
A lot of the reason longbows were so effective against armoured knights was that they would wound the comparatively unarmoured horses, making them fall and therefore injuring or killing the severely beaten-up riders. Bear in mind also that seeing thousands of arrows coming towards you, blacking out the sky is very intimidating and demoralising. The bombardment would also significantly slow the enemy charge.

So yeah, longbows could only outright go through armour at short(ish) range, but they definitely had their uses at long range.

Anyway, I reckon realism is really important when it comes to projectiles. It's good to see you're doing that to a large extent in this game.
You'd be amazed at how many "historians" completely overlook that fact. If you have a completely encased knight knocked off his horse that will injure him. He then has to have help to simply stand. Then he gets to slog across the field of battle whilst arrows search for a weak point in his armor (face/joints). Ever been hit by a wounded horse that's freaking out? Lbows pwn. I would readily admit that xbows in close range are superior.
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