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  #41  
Old 03-09-2010, 07:31 PM
otomotopia otomotopia is offline
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Originally Posted by Swift sword View Post
Also, heavy infantry wouldn't stand any better a time in the inital charge against cavalry then light infantry would, unless they had spears/pikes. Cavalry speed would slow down faster (and thus cause less devestation) against heavy infantry, but other than that heavier armor isn't going to help against the first impact. It'll be a major factor once the cavalry have decimated the first 2-3lines of infantry, though. At that point, against light infantry they'd still be going strong, but against heavy, they'd have to wheel around before the fighting became hand-to-hand.
That should have been clarified in my responce, sorry. I do agree, being the first against a charge (without long sharp poles) usually ends up with your death. however, Heavier/braver units should always slow down calvary better then weaker and less equiped units. I expect Blademasters to pose a much more substantial threat against calvary then a hobgoblin horde, and Sentrys much more then Grandmasters and Slayers.

Either way, having fodder in front mixed with pikes and a stronger layer of units in back is a sound strategy against any army.
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  #42  
Old 03-09-2010, 08:09 PM
Negthareas Negthareas is offline
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I agree - padding with needles.

Under most circumstances, at least. I am sure I could easily think up several that would cause problems for such a setup.
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  #43  
Old 03-09-2010, 08:53 PM
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uh isn't that the point of fodder? cannon/sword etc. A very tried and true method though somewhat hard on soldiers.
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  #44  
Old 03-10-2010, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Negthareas View Post
I agree - padding with needles.

Under most circumstances, at least. I am sure I could easily think up several that would cause problems for such a setup.
Of course, so could we all. Just plain ranged weapondry would be highly effective against a setup like that. It was a generalization for a reason- you need to constantly shift your setups/formations to accomedate for your opponent's tactics- archers probably won't work too well against ents if they cant set fire to them, so put more infantry up on the walls to defend them. Use the padding with needles technique as a rule of thumb, and change to full pikes when a "decisive" calvary charge comes.

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uh isn't that the point of fodder? cannon/sword etc. A very tried and true method though somewhat hard on soldiers.
Well, there's a couple points of fodder from a mideval military perspective. They'll get to a point with a ton of numbers quicker then elite troops, and do the work before the elites are needed. They also provide mass (or a deep physical barrier), so it takes much more time to break through them. They soak up ranged attacks so your better units stay healthy.
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  #45  
Old 03-10-2010, 10:27 AM
Negthareas Negthareas is offline
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Right. One point people might find unrealistic about Rohan's cavalry charge in the battle of Pelennor fields is this. The people say that Rohan's charge would have been stopped by the sheer number of orcs they smashed into.

However, if you watch the movie, the orcs broke ranks before Rohan hit, so that, when Rohan did hit, the orcs were in front of them, but loosely, not together. Thus, the charge was able to keep up its massive momentum and run a significant portion of the Witch-King's army down.
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  #46  
Old 03-10-2010, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Negthareas View Post
Right. One point people might find unrealistic about Rohan's cavalry charge in the battle of Pelennor fields is this. The people say that Rohan's charge would have been stopped by the sheer number of orcs they smashed into.

However, if you watch the movie, the orcs broke ranks before Rohan hit, so that, when Rohan did hit, the orcs were in front of them, but loosely, not together. Thus, the charge was able to keep up its massive momentum and run a significant portion of the Witch-King's army down.
O...kay. So I guess you're agreeing with my point that braver units will hold against a charge better then less brave units? otherwise that's just a random blurb that doesnt relate to the conversation...
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  #47  
Old 03-10-2010, 01:16 PM
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actually, braver units don't break when faced with a more powerful (more likely to win) Kinda army, it doesn't really matter if it is a full melee or a charge. When charged, if they can hold their formation until the moment it hits first line then they should have an effect...
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  #48  
Old 03-10-2010, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by otomotopia View Post
O...kay. So I guess you're agreeing with my point that braver units will hold against a charge better then less brave units? otherwise that's just a random blurb that doesnt relate to the conversation...
Yes - I was. If units can hold until that moment [and if they are properly equipped - pikes, etc.] they can fend off, stop, or slaughter a cavalry charge.

It takes guts to stand there, knowing that, if you are in the first few ranks, you will die no matter what [the charge is still going fast. momentum will carry it forward to trample the first couple, few, or ten or so ranks. Probably even more.].
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  #49  
Old 03-10-2010, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
you will die no matter what
I draw the line here. Though you will probably sustain serious injury, it's still entirely possible that you won't die.
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  #50  
Old 03-10-2010, 10:58 PM
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Hence the emergence of heavily clad/armed spear/pikemen? I mean that was the logical counter to heavy cav and the scots proved it for a hundred years to the heavy cav of the english.
And I forgot to add the idea of bracing pikes into the ground to use the momentum against the rider proved very useful to infantry.

Last edited by GPS51 : 03-10-2010 at 11:12 PM.
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