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  #51  
Old 01-04-2010, 05:20 PM
Supreme Supreme is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zach12wqasxz View Post
take the totar war series for instance, they all have freindly fire when you use archers, and ive never heard an average gamer complain about that
I have to agree with zach. It gets a lot more tactical if your own troops might die.

Without friendly fire its this: 1. put some strong (large hp) infantry troops up archers directly behind. 2. make the infantry clash 3. let the archers kill of everyone in the fight (except your own troops since they cant die) 4. PROFIT.

Thats just..meh..
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  #52  
Old 01-04-2010, 05:26 PM
Darathor Darathor is offline
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500 is too extreme of a number to use. Total War series is made to be as realistic as possible, so it would include friendly fire. One could also abuse friendly fire, by shooting at his teammates units, or, if they lack an "attack this unit(no matter its diplomatic relations to me) button" and a "bombard" or "shoot at this area" button, then you would still be able to shoot at an enemy that is close enough to your ally to harm him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme View Post
I have to agree with zach. It gets a lot more tactical if your own troops might die.

Without friendly fire its this: 1. put some strong (large hp) infantry troops up archers directly behind. 2. make the infantry clash 3. let the archers kill of everyone in the fight (except your own troops since they cant die) 4. PROFIT.

Thats just..meh..
Doing that would just be a recipe for disaster unless your opponent was as stupid as you were in doing that formation. Flanking would be oh so easy as setting a few men to occupy the heavy infantry and letting your cavalry destroy the archers. A pincer move would obliterate that formation. It does get more complex and tactical with friendly fire, but is also more annoying and cumbersome. Not being able to utilize your archers in games is frustrating, in the campaign in the total war games, you can't use your archers except at the beginning of most battles because the AI sends all his men to fight your infantry. This makes it hard to shoot at them unless they have really deep ranks. Their cavalry will be engaged, leaving the only thing to shoot at is the other archers, which would have been wiped out by my cavalry most likely, or at least run off by them.

Just remembered, it's the "attack-ground" button that most games use now.

Realism =/= fun, but nor does realism = annoying or unfun. We can't tell truthfully until we see the game or play via beta.
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Last edited by Darathor : 01-04-2010 at 06:08 PM.
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  #53  
Old 01-04-2010, 06:46 PM
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  #54  
Old 01-04-2010, 08:05 PM
Sauron_9Gods9_Ldr Sauron_9Gods9_Ldr is offline
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I would like to know if there will be any Giant units such like a titan in aom but with no gay loss thing or like elephants or some kind of big unit if so can you give us any hint if there would be a giant ogre or something like a upgraded forum like a troll?
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  #55  
Old 01-04-2010, 09:27 PM
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The biggest creature is the dragon, and dragons are not nearly as powerful as what you are thinking of (eg Titans in Age of Mythology).
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  #56  
Old 01-04-2010, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme View Post
I have to agree with zach. It gets a lot more tactical if your own troops might die.

Without friendly fire its this: 1. put some strong (large hp) infantry troops up archers directly behind. 2. make the infantry clash 3. let the archers kill of everyone in the fight (except your own troops since they cant die) 4. PROFIT.

Thats just..meh..
That's really just not true at all.

Total war for example what happens unless you're fighting the AI is you don't bring more than 0-2 battalions of archers because archers are never cost effective in that game unless you're defending from a very advantageous position be it a castle or a bridge. Those are the only two times archers carry their weight in total war.

It might not 'look' right, and it will feel unrealistic, but it's necessary if you want ranged units to play any part in the game outside of sieges.


@Zach

How often do you actually see players using archers in Total War online?



I love total war and play it often, but ranged units were the biggest problem I had with it. They were almost useless against players in most circumstances.
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Last edited by Josh Warner : 01-04-2010 at 11:19 PM.
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  #57  
Old 01-05-2010, 12:24 AM
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But for defending a siege... give me hoplites and archers...good times
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  #58  
Old 01-05-2010, 08:38 AM
welshie welshie is offline
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Well on the subject of Friendly fire, i suspose it comes down to personal oppinions, personaly i think friendly fire will be pointless as in a seige your not going to up your infantry and head for the enimies outside ur fortress, and your not going to use hudge numbers of archers for a seige anywho so pointless for seiges. In open field as has been said pincer/flaking manoviours = easy victory against archer dominated armys and the provide sutible cover/defencive units to help the archers would mean you would have 1 archer left. So in reality if your going to use many archers in open field then you need to know what your doing and not go 'AMG look at my arrows go they be pewpewing' otherwise it will be 'Whats them caverly doing charging at me.... well who woulda thought that would cost me my archers eh?' so friendly fire wouldnt really be a problem now would it when your probs not going to be using hudge ammounts of archers.
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  #59  
Old 01-05-2010, 09:55 AM
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friendly fire would be good and all that, but then the archers should also be more powerful... Like adding extra dmg if they get behind a unit, or perhaps add a chance for one hit Kill Offs for regular units
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  #60  
Old 01-05-2010, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darathor View Post
Doing that would just be a recipe for disaster unless your opponent was as stupid as you were in doing that formation. Flanking would be oh so easy as setting a few men to occupy the heavy infantry and letting your cavalry destroy the archers. A pincer move would obliterate that formation. It does get more complex and tactical with friendly fire, but is also more annoying and cumbersome. Not being able to utilize your archers in games is frustrating, in the campaign in the total war games, you can't use your archers except at the beginning of most battles because the AI sends all his men to fight your infantry. This makes it hard to shoot at them unless they have really deep ranks. Their cavalry will be engaged, leaving the only thing to shoot at is the other archers, which would have been wiped out by my cavalry most likely, or at least run off by them.
Put some anticavalery (spearmen) exactly behind the archers (they can respond to the cavalery faster than the cavalry can move from right to left flank. Put some light infantery in between the archers so they can respond to changes or breaks in the lines and wooptiedoo you won!

(Besides you can just run em off with your own cavalry)

But sure, lets not continue this road as weve driven off

(I won like 1:5 and later 1:7 with some hoplites some light cavalry and 2/3 batts of archers like that, was a good game though:P) (yes vs NPC)
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