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  #11  
Old 01-29-2014, 10:49 AM
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Konstantin Fomenko Konstantin Fomenko is offline
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Good suggestions guys, we`ll do another round of adjusting wizards in the next patch.
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  #12  
Old 01-29-2014, 05:46 PM
rbfloat05 rbfloat05 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konstantin Fomenko View Post
Good suggestions guys, we`ll do another round of adjusting wizards in the next patch.
Okay here please dont listen to the handful of people in this thread dont like wizards I get it.


But the changes you are taking about will completly make wizards usless, the ONLY good thing about lightning storm is that it follows its targets.


Other wizards spells? Simply spread out move away, and all that spell is wasted. Lightning storm does ALOT less damage now hardly anything. To get any use out of lightning storm you have to have multiple deep mages.



If any of my deep mages die I lose thousands thousands of gold. Have to respend all my points to relevel the mage again waste time clicking hundereds of time each dead mage, waste HUNDEREDS of thousands of gold to relevel them.



If the game lags? Dead mage, there goes thousands of gold.



Yes please keep nerfing mages again and again until its useless.


No matter how hard you NERF mages you cant fix guys that dont know how to focus fire the DPS.


Deep mages were nerfed hard and now you need MANY deep mages to do what 1 mage could do before.


More deep mage nerfs will make them useless.

So you dont want to have to focus fire the DPS? why the hell not its the smart thing to do.


Mages are the squishies and most expensive thing in the game by far now, and a few handful of vocal people just want to nerf them more and more.


Me and MANY other people in game ( not the handful that post in these forums) think that mages are fine me and all my friends.


This game hardly has any magic going on and its SHAME, and now people want to ruin the only magic we have.



If you nerf mages more will really ruin the game for me and alot of people.


Mages are not a "I win button" like some people think....


takes ALOT of micro to keep a mage alive and one second of not pay attention he is dead.



The spells are easy to avoid if people spread out there forces, dont really do all that much damage, and have Huge cooldowns.


Oh yeah, also, mages suck at EVERYTHing except casting a spell every now and then that can just be dodged and laughed at.




also people dont even use the main in game counter to different magic, all mages of different types have different defense spells against different schools of magic.

mages can counter other mages EASY even if you dont spread out your units and focus fire the mages.

Its paper rock scissors thing, the founding block of many RTS games. or just listen to a few mad people "nerf tha dps he kill me he is overpowered please developers nerf please"



please dont listen to the handful of people on this forum that hate mages and ruin the only casters in this game.

If you nerf lightning storm more it will be so useless, Fire mage hardly inflicts any casuallties, calm mage can be dodged or waited out easy. mages are BALANCED.


Mages require SO much gold and any small mistake costs you a ton they are laughably easy to kill.


I play casters in every game i hate playing as warriors and if mages are nerfed more it will ruin this game for me and alot of other peoples.


Why destroy one of main features of expansion



Mages require Insane micro to keep alive or bigarmies protecting them.


They can be countered by spreading out, sending people in to assassinate mages, countered by other mages, sending units from different directions.


They can bug out and not listen to commands and stand there and die, happens alot since they are so weak, then poof there goes all my gold



wave mage spells can be easily dodged and dont even kill that well in my opinion, and calm spells are decent but if you spread out have VERY small radius.



Of course people die if they clump together their units, this happens IN many other RTS games. My royal dragon kills clumped units JUST as good as a mage spell


same with hydra has insane AOE attack.




Please dont ruin game and mages

very dissappointing to see casters treated like this

Last edited by rbfloat05 : 01-29-2014 at 05:54 PM.
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  #13  
Old 01-29-2014, 07:20 PM
Azumazi Azumazi is offline
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First and foremost, it isn't just a handful of people complaining about mages. I suggest you actually read the general chat sometime and see just how many of us find them broken. Also, I have mages, I fully admit they are OP. Especially in a siege when you're attacking someones defenses. It's hard to spread out forces in a town. Now before you go "Focus fire on the wizard", I'll tell you exactly what happened with I tried just that before the last patch.

780 point defense city vs 440 attacker. I am the defender, hes the attacker.

2 mages on attacker side, 46 calm, 50 wave mage, 2 halbs, a few foot knights, lots of swordsmen.

I have a mix of 9 mounted level 11 knights, 12 foot knights of levels 8-20, 2 level 12 dwarf rifles, 6 level 6 rangers, and a mix of archers, crossbows. Also around 4 halbs, 7 swordsmen, dragonslayer.

My mounted knights are specced for damage. Around 600 on each. My wizards are in my army which are not in the castle. he has an opening in the rear, I drop a rear charge into his deep mage since his calm in in a mix of foot knights, they plow through the halbs and slam into him, 30 seconds of combat and his mage has only lost 25% of his health and my knights have been stam drained to the point they cannot break the engagement.

So that's 9x600 for 5400 damage, and they couldn't take down that wizard in that time frame due to high hp regen + stamina drain. Not to mention when my knights ran away, they were completely finished off by meteor swarm which followed them hitting them everytime.

So yes, please cry more that your broken unit is going to be nerfed, because name me another unit in the game that 2 of them in an army can literally shut down a front. I don't see 2 dragons doing that.
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  #14  
Old 01-29-2014, 07:37 PM
rbfloat05 rbfloat05 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azumazi View Post
First and foremost, it isn't just a handful of people complaining about mages. I suggest you actually read the general chat sometime and see just how many of us find them broken. Also, I have mages, I fully admit they are OP. Especially in a siege when you're attacking someones defenses. It's hard to spread out forces in a town. Now before you go "Focus fire on the wizard", I'll tell you exactly what happened with I tried just that before the last patch.

780 point defense city vs 440 attacker. I am the defender, hes the attacker.

2 mages on attacker side, 46 calm, 50 wave mage, 2 halbs, a few foot knights, lots of swordsmen.

I have a mix of 9 mounted level 11 knights, 12 foot knights of levels 8-20, 2 level 12 dwarf rifles, 6 level 6 rangers, and a mix of archers, crossbows. Also around 4 halbs, 7 swordsmen, dragonslayer.

My mounted knights are specced for damage. Around 600 on each. My wizards are in my army which are not in the castle. he has an opening in the rear, I drop a rear charge into his deep mage since his calm in in a mix of foot knights, they plow through the halbs and slam into him, 30 seconds of combat and his mage has only lost 25% of his health and my knights have been stam drained to the point they cannot break the engagement.

So that's 9x600 for 5400 damage, and they couldn't take down that wizard in that time frame due to high hp regen + stamina drain. Not to mention when my knights ran away, they were completely finished off by meteor swarm which followed them hitting them everytime.

So yes, please cry more that your broken unit is going to be nerfed, because name me another unit in the game that 2 of them in an army can literally shut down a front. I don't see 2 dragons doing that.
in fact 2 powerful dragons could do the same thing as those mages, you obviously dont know what your talking about.


First meteor swarm doesnt follow targets it doesnt home in.....


usually it misses and causes not that much damage, iprefer hellspikes

second the wizard probably cast the lightning sphere, in that case you should have gone for his calm wizard and killed it


this must have been BEFORE the patch.


Since this new patch wizards only have a regen of 30 a second, and only have FOUR THOUSAND base health, is nothing, there is no way the battle happened like you said it did the wizards would have been dead.


plusidk what you talking about tons of people say mages are very squishy and weak.


sucks when peopl make up stuff to get their point across


mages very hard for new players to level and keep alive


and its easy to miss with theyr spells, and their spells are not very powerful anymore

Last edited by rbfloat05 : 01-29-2014 at 07:40 PM.
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  #15  
Old 01-30-2014, 10:54 AM
Loriael Loriael is offline
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Hi guys,

I am new here, but I am loving the game, even with some bugs and balance issues. The campaign quest lines and graphics are pretty to me, and pvp can be pretty fun when it is not uselessly laggy or my UI doesn't lock up control of my units.

I just wanted to share an opinion for this discussion not necessarily for or against wizards, but for game balance in general that you could try to adopt across the board:

I think the philosophy of game balance needs to be taken into consideration.

When you nerf everything to be all equally useless or buff everything to be equally OP, you could get balance, but it would be like everything is white or everything is black, all races symmetrical stats-- same unit just different graphics. Some games do this, and it is not as cool as having the kind of variety of units and abilities that you have here.

I recommend the following: rock, paper, scissors (or the enhanced version: rock, papers, scissors, lizard, spock). That game is very balanced. Why?
Everything is powerful against something, everything is weak against something. Every unit is overpowered, but every unit has a total counter.
Other examples of where this is done: Guild Wars, DOTA, and other similar pvp-oriented rpg (warrior beats rogue, rogue beats mage, mage beats warrior).

Right now, as some people say, there are some counters to mages, but maybe not as effective? I don't know enough to say yet. I'd like to learn about them.


I would offer the "rock, paper, scissor" game design philosophy for balance as an alternative to "making everything equal".

I'd love to hear the dev and community thoughts on this and I hope you can continue to make the game better for most of us! Keep up the good work.
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  #16  
Old 01-30-2014, 07:09 PM
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I'm keeping a close eye on chat on behalf of the Wizs. I think Wizards are working fine, but yes we are adjusting them as we go. Their is many counters. If you see they have a Wizard, kill it asap waste a unit if you have 2. But don't let them just kite your base with aoe spells. Run your units to the other side. We will have an article on counters and how to use Wizards for new and old players so we can re assure you how to kill and or play them
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  #17  
Old 01-31-2014, 12:22 AM
Dashgoor Dashgoor is offline
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I stopped PVP currently because of Wizards. I think not, that 1 wizard with Lighningstorm is really a problem, but 6-8 of them are...

You make a group, cast with all of them at same time Lighntingstorm and watch how oppent just dies. Where is the strategy? Where is the fun? As the storm is following the target, you cant move out, and you dont see which unit was targeted.

Sure, you can tell me to find out really fast which unit was targeted and to move it out of the army, but normally the damage is already done. I saw multiple level 20 units dying, with 25000+ HP, in no time, and that after the nerf.

It seems that you only have to take more wizards with you now, but same effect.

The following storm is the only problem, once again, its NOT mainly the DPS of it.

Greetings
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  #18  
Old 01-31-2014, 04:27 AM
Zeikon Zeikon is offline
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the issue isnt meeting 1 wizard, the issue is an army of wizards obliterates your whole army in an instant, and thers nothing you can do about it, and dont say spread out, coes it does **** all.
its blatantly obviously overpowered as they are now, the only thing you can do against a wizard army is throw and army of dragons at them, that is the 1 and only counter.
if you just limit 1 of each wizard per army everything would be fixed.
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  #19  
Old 01-31-2014, 04:53 AM
rbfloat05 rbfloat05 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeikon View Post
the issue isnt meeting 1 wizard, the issue is an army of wizards obliterates your whole army in an instant, and thers nothing you can do about it, and dont say spread out, coes it does **** all.
its blatantly obviously overpowered as they are now, the only thing you can do against a wizard army is throw and army of dragons at them, that is the 1 and only counter.
if you just limit 1 of each wizard per army everything would be fixed.

Okay as far as so called "wizard army" just try it youself, it is not easy.

More wizards mean less soldiers to protect them making it even easier for you to kill them. try making a bunch of wizard, first mistake, first few soldiers to get through you have alot of dead wizard on your hand, an armies with alot of wizards have no support and quickly the wizards die and you will be losing hundereds of thousands of gold since wizards need to be high level to even cast many of their spells...


Not just dragons, heroes, soldiers, will all kill the wizard just fine, they are the lowest health squishy unit in game
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  #20  
Old 01-31-2014, 06:55 AM
Zeikon Zeikon is offline
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2 wizards of the calm = not 1 singel meele unit can ever toutch your mages
3 wizards of the deeps = 3x lightning storm, and army of lvl 20 units are dead in 1 cast
4 wizards of the deep = perma invulnerability, and with the regen you in actuallity only need 3 to do this.
wizard of the wave is only good against citys not open pvp so they are fine
and a lvl 40 wizard is easy to get.. so stop talking about those abysmall losses if you actually manage to get 1 killed.

so plz try it yourself so you actually know what your talking about.
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