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  #21  
Old 07-04-2013, 08:03 AM
theinternetman theinternetman is offline
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Originally Posted by kbs666 View Post
Finally controlling units during the battle and reskilling them? I was barely able to get my units formations set and from some sort of battle line. He just came at me as a horde. He used no visible tactic except his units were simply far superior to mine despite the point value and his units being uniformly lower level.
It's not the game's fault your APM is slow enough that you can't set unit group hotkeys, abilities, and formations before your opponent trudges across the entire battlefield which takes a decent amount of time. DoF isn't Total War, yes you need to spend some time learning the mechanics of a PvP game. Did you even record the battle to watch it again to see your mistakes? Also unit level isn't an automatic I-WIN button nor should it ever be. Making a good army composition and micro is far more important than having the higher level and that's a good thing. It's good that players who want to rely on brute strength of levels get trounced. The way DoF pathfinding works the player with less units can split their army into smaller hotkey groups and micro far faster than the player with the large army because it takes far less time to calculate movement for smaller unit groups in DoF.

Clearly you're upset because you got beat in a game by a player who had far more experience or a far better army composition and you want to blame the game above all else. If you had some legitimate complaint about the game mechanics I'd be 100% behind you but so far you're complaining that army scores aren't calculated properly because someone used a greater mass of lower level units to beat your smaller mass of high level units and beat you.

You can have a group of level 20 knights with 90% pierce resistance in anvil formation but my gigantic mass of low level archers will still do 125 fire damage per arrow per hit and be able to easily run away from your knights and keep firing at them. Knights do not have any fire resistance so that's an example of why army diversification is important and levels aren't the end-all-be-all, which is again, a good game mechanic.

I'm not saying DoF PvP is problem free because it's far from it, but you do a disservice to the game and its players by not posting constructive feedback with specific examples, with proof (math) to back up your requests for changes to existing game mechanics. In other words, you're just moaning you got beat instead of trying to analyze the specific mechanics and matchups that took place precipitating in your defeat.

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Originally Posted by kbs666 View Post
If my army composition was that utterly useless, all my knights had maxed out their armor resists BTW (I not being a complete moron), then the point comparison should not have been within a few points.
The game isn't responsible to hold your hand and tell you that you made a bad army composition. It just looks at the stats of your units and slaps out a score, just like Warhammer. You can spend hundreds of dollars on the best Magic The Gathering deck ever and you could still lose every match because you didn't know how the cards worked together or how to use them. Krell Lord of the Undeath in Warhammer is like 250 points or something insane like that but that doesn't mean he won't get roasted in 2 seconds if you don't build your army around having Krell Lord of The Undeath in it and use him carefully.

When someone gets perfected in a fighting game does that mean the other character is OP or does it just mean one player was significantly better than the other?
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Last edited by theinternetman : 07-04-2013 at 08:20 AM.
  #22  
Old 07-04-2013, 08:16 AM
kbs666 kbs666 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theinternetman View Post
It's not the game's fault your APM is slow enough that you can't set unit group hotkeys, abilities, and formations before your opponent trudges across the entire battlefield which takes a decent amount of time. DoF isn't Total War, yes you need to spend some time learning the mechanics of a PvP game. Did you even record the battle to watch it again to see your mistakes? Also unit level isn't an automatic I-WIN button nor should it ever be. Making a good army composition and micro is far more important than having the higher level and that's a good thing. It's good that players who want to rely on brute strength of levels get trounced.

Clearly you're upset because you got beat in a game by a player who had far more experience or a far better army composition and you want to blame the game above all else. If you had some legitimate complaint about the game mechanics I'd be 100% behind you but so far you're complaining that army scores aren't calculated properly because someone used a greater mass of lower level units to beat your smaller mass of high level units and beat you.
Oh please. I used shortcuts, I do play PvP games quite a bit. The problem was even using shortcuts and such nothing happened most of the time.

As to your levels shouldn't matter nonsense, if the promotions actually do what they say, increase armor resists, attack, hit points, stamina and recovery, then higher level units should usually beat lower level troops. If the promotions don't do what they say then it is another instance of the game lying to the players. BTW you are arguing that zerg tactics should dominate. If that is the case in this game's mechanics it should be clearly spelled out by the point system. The point system makes the claim that quality and quantity can be balanced which is as it should be in a good PVP game. No one strategy should be the only one that works.

I'm upset because the game did not give me the information I needed to make a good decision about joining the battle and that the actual battle was so buggy/laggy I had almost no control of what was happening.
  #23  
Old 07-04-2013, 08:22 AM
theinternetman theinternetman is offline
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All of the upgrades in this game work. Resistances, health regen, speed, stamina regen/max, damage, etc. Every single upgrade works but they're not I-WIN buttons. Sorry but no, high level units do not automatically beat lower level units, and that's again, a good thing. Picking upgrades to counter your opponents upgrades and using unit abilities like heals efficiently wins battles. 100% crush resistance is pointless when your opponent is shooting arrows at you.

Do the math on your units. If two level 5 units of Berserks beats one level 10 unit of knights that's an important thing to know. That matchup also has millions of combinations of upgrades that go into it depending on how each player used their skill points. Players like me often reskill our units many many times during the battle to counter the enemy's units as well.

Create an army of the unit you want to see the point value of, bam you now know what that unit is worth and can design armies around it. It's complete hyperbole to say that I'm in favor of zerging being the only viable tactic in DoF. You would have cited specific examples and explained the logic behind that accusation if it were true. Which is something you seem to be heavily deficient in. Maybe if you spent less time getting mad at the game in forums posts and spent more time researching and building a good army and practicing with it in the field you would win more games.

You're upset because you don't want to put in any time or effort into building and army and you want the game to give you a big fat I-WIN button and tell you exactly how to build your army to be competitive. Instant gratification gaming generation is part of the reason 99% of games in 2013 are so terrible.

Armies in this game are literally mass produce-able. Make tons of them, go practice, learn the game. Or just uninstall the game because I haven't seen a single constructive post in your history so you're clearly not interested in improving the game, just complaining and moaning because you paid $15 and didn't get to beat anyone in competitive online play.

I've had idiots zerg my knights and get trounced like it was nothing because I used better strategies. Like using the classic Warhammer strategy of tar pits. Knights are my tar pit units, with high resistances and almost no damage upgrades, while my archers are the damage dealers.

You can have 900 points of archers but if you're running regular arrows and your opponent is running high pierce resistance melee with restoration upgrades they could have 100 points and counter you easily if you don't have fire arrows researched or choose not to use them.
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Last edited by theinternetman : 07-04-2013 at 08:33 AM.
  #24  
Old 07-04-2013, 12:10 PM
kbs666 kbs666 is offline
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Enough of this crap.
You called me a liar and I even quoted the part where you said zerg tactics should always beat quality. Here I'll do it again.
Quote:
complaining that army scores aren't calculated properly because someone used a greater mass of lower level units to beat your smaller mass of high level units and beat you
Now since I didn't complain about being beaten in a good fight. I complained that my forces were utterly destroyed by a lower point value army The only possible interpretation of your rather insulting attack is that in your opinion zerging is the only way to go.

Now go back and read what I wrote not the dumb strawman you've been attacking. Then be sure to tell the game devs you've driven off a player and made sure that the word of mouth I spread was that the game is broken and the forum is populated by fanbois who won't toerate someone stating the truth.
  #25  
Old 07-05-2013, 04:12 PM
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Hi11Zone Hi11Zone is offline
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Ok I understand the concern but this thread is getting way out of hand, i'm closing it.
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