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  #11  
Old 03-07-2013, 09:09 AM
Ducard Ducard is offline
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Still the biggest problem is lacking of player base. If we get new players ,hopefully trough steam, they will get frustrated very fast because they do not play this game since beta and can build every army composition to counter several dragons.

Winning a pvp battle should always depend on the skill of the player. How he knows the strenght and weaknesses of his units and the units of his opponent and should never depend on how many "big units" he can field or the exact counter unit.

I also would prefer, if the dragons really hve to stay in game, some kind of group quest line where you and two or three more players fight a huge dragon and his army and as a reward you get his new born dragon that you can raise and train. But not due to buying it with wealth
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  #12  
Old 03-07-2013, 09:11 AM
Sunleader Sunleader is offline
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So it wasnt an Goodbye but an simple Threat followed by an Demand.....

By the way I.ll counter this.
If we can only have one Hero I am pretty much Guaranteed to not Play again.
(I wouldnt mind having only One Dragon per Army tough)


Still the statement that an Army with Dragons and Enchanters is Invincible is bull****.
If your Faced with Dragons and Enchanters you.ll usually need
Archers
Pikes
and lots Cavalry.
(Race doesnt really matter even tough Elven Forces are at advantage here as they can stealth out making it easyer for em to Attack without taking losses to Fireballs)


Some Cavalry going for the Enchanters.
Rest going for the Dragons.

The Cavalry makes really short work of Enchanters and the Dragons cant do **** about it because they would grill the Enchanters if they fired into the place.

Pikes will Force the Dragon into Melee so he cant keep firing Fireballs around.
And together with the Archers they will do good Damage to the Dragon.
Also once the Enchanster have been slaughtered you can Use the Cavalry to make sure the Dragon doesnt keep flying all over Map to escape from your Infantry


As Dragons and Heros add an Incredible amount of STR points to an Army your pretty much Guaranteed to have an quite high Leveld Army as well.



As for Hero only Army I cant tell as I never had or fought one.
Heros also add an absurd amount of STR to an Army.
So Armys full of Heros are really something to behold off as they will nearly always even on lower levels face an really good Army in the Field.....


Greet Sun
ps well I.ll agree that some Balance Adjustments need to be done tough.
If Fireballs wouldnt be Insta Kill anymore that would already be an Tremendous help for example.
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  #13  
Old 03-07-2013, 10:00 AM
miklos1 miklos1 is offline
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Well said Sunleader. i was typing a reply when yours posted. Just want to add one thing. We as a community can stop the abusing players by not fighting them and paying off when they no longer get the free wealth they will stop pulling the crap. There is so much cool stuff the devs have planned that i would rather see then working on the this. I keep one dragon in my armies just to fight off any other dragons and in most cases its more of a hindrance then a benift. Not to mention a good way for ather players to get wealth by killing my dragons lol. Also remember this is a war game meaning you will be fighting never heard of a war that was fair
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  #14  
Old 03-07-2013, 11:01 AM
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Konstantin Fomenko Konstantin Fomenko is offline
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Thanks for adding more drama into this guys - but hey you know how our company works - just ask us to change something, put up your case with some stats to back it up - and consider it done.

We are working on a patch due either today or tomorrow - that will have the following changes:

1) Heroes now take 4 population spots - so at most you`ll see 15 heroes in the army, and usually less than that.

2) Hero and Dragon strength value will be on average be 50% higher - so that new players or under 300 strength don`t have to worry about ever getting attacked by high level Dragons or Heroes.

3) We`ve changed skill point upgrades for Heroes and Dragons. The attack and health modified is now 50% less. So this cuts in half the high level damage and hit points of all the high level Dragons in game. Low level stats remain the same.

4) We included a new quests in early game that introduces players to Dragon, and gives them a free Dragon Slayer

5) Regular unit self-healing now restores dead soldiers in a battalion. So self-healing for units and dragons/heroes is now on the same level

6) Are of Effect Damage changes - with damage decreasing with radius increasing. Fhis makes Fire Ball and Fire Wall a bit less effective

Last edited by Brian Shingles : 03-07-2013 at 12:55 PM.
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  #15  
Old 03-07-2013, 11:03 AM
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Konstantin Fomenko Konstantin Fomenko is offline
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And both sides of the argument in this post have valid points - so really no wrong answers and no need to argue over who`s right and who`s not.

- We need to protect new players against Dragons and Heroes - as they simply won`t have experience to counter them

- High level players should know how to use mixed forces and counters - and yes I`d expect a player with 1000+ strength army to know that Pikes and Dragon Slayers kill Dragons, while Fire kills Heroes

Last edited by Konstantin Fomenko : 03-07-2013 at 11:07 AM.
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  #16  
Old 03-07-2013, 11:12 AM
miklos1 miklos1 is offline
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Sounds great iand i apologize for any drama on my part. But like you said high lvl players should know how to deal with high lvl units. Also players should not be aloud to hunt newbies. BTW like how archers work now.
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  #17  
Old 03-07-2013, 11:19 AM
Ducard Ducard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunleader View Post

Some Cavalry going for the Enchanters.
Rest going for the Dragons.

The Cavalry makes really short work of Enchanters and the Dragons cant do **** about it because they would grill the Enchanters if they fired into the place.

So all you need are some units guarding the enchanters who can counter the cavalry.

The moment you have one unit that cannot be killed by at least one or two counter units is in my eyes a balance breaker.
And as soon as you have to specialize an whole army just to counter that specific unit is just crap.
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  #18  
Old 03-07-2013, 11:34 AM
miklos1 miklos1 is offline
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As the great Kenny Rogers once sang "you have to know when to hold them and no when to fold them.

Last edited by miklos1 : 03-07-2013 at 11:36 AM.
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  #19  
Old 03-07-2013, 12:27 PM
Sunleader Sunleader is offline
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@Kon
Well its nice of you to work this far in your Communitys Favor ^^
But it also means that I.ll need to make some Drama.
After all we cant have people changing you the game so they like it while having it go away from our own Wishes *gg*
After all just because one Person wants something changed doesnt mean all want it ^^


@Miklos
Dunno what the Great People say but I am really bad at folding when I know that I have the better hand....


@Axal

If he has an Mixed Army to counter Threats to his Army then he is not doing an Noobish all Dragon Army but is actually using advanced Tactics.

Now if he just needs something to defend his Enchanters this also means you just need something to kill whats protecting his enchanters ^^
To Defend against Cavalry you usually use Pikes.
So you can Add Macemen
Now you might say then he needs some Knights.
And I.ll say then we need some Crossbowmen.
In the End the Armys will be mixed to no end and will have nothing to do with an All Dragon Army anymore but that would also mean that Dragon Armys are not Invincible. ^^




But in the First place your Calculation here is not going up.
You see his Dragons take up incredible much Population Space.
And having only a few Enchanters wont Heal a Dragon enough to prevent him from being Killed by an Massive Force.
So we are already expending lots of Population on Dragons and Enchanters.

If he Fields enough Units to actually Defend Enchanters against an Full Force of for example 16 Mounted Knights matey he will at best have remaining population for 2 Dragons.
So say we really go with 16 Archers 16 Pikes and 16 Mounted Knights
He will be faced with 32 Squads against 2 Dragons and his Enchanters and their Escort will be faced with 16 Knights on Horses.
On top as Dragons add much more STR than normal units your Units will have higher lvl and thus be superior to the Enchanters Defenders
and now even if he Defends his Enchanters he cant heal the Dragons with them meanwhile.
So even if his Forces ultimately win over against the Cavalry his Dragons will be Gone.
However if he trys to let the Dragons escape you can move your Forces onto the Enchanters and finish em.

And actually we have 12 slots free currently while the Enemy is at full Population.
So we could for example take along Dragon Slayers or Additional Forces.
For example Macemen which are very Fast and make short work of whatever Defends the Enchanters


Dont get this wrong matey.
Dragons are Strong if used right.
But if you seriosly believe theyre Invincible than I dont know what you did over those Years in DoF

Dragons are Effective against most Anti NPC Armys because those are usually prepared for frontal Mass Fights.
Which is an easy target for Dragons Fireballs.
PvP Armys which are mostly fast paced will usually not have much Trouble with Dragons.
Simply because theyre in on them fast and wont take much losses against their Fireballs.
Well but actually PvP Armys are mostly small and those wont meet Dragon Armys.
Dragon Armys are usually trying to Fight anti NPC Armys.


For example if you got an Full Knight Army any Melee Infantry Army will be toast before you.
But if you Face an Dragon or Ranged Army your toast.
Macemen Army will make Toast of Ranged Armys but is good as dead when meeting Knights
Cavalry Army will make Toast of Dragons and Ranged Armys but is Toast against Pikes.
Dragons make toast of slow mass armys but are really in trouble when the enemy is fast.
Enchanters are fine when you can hold your line and have em behind it but once the enemy breaks your line your deadmeat.


Learn to Mix up an Army and use the Units effectively.
Then you wont be troubled by Dragons too much.


I for example usually use an Hero Squad Supportet by Archers, Cavalry and Pikes.
The Heros take the Front and the Archers fire from behind.
To make sure Enemy doesnt pull tricks my Cavalry ready to Flank and my Pikes in case the Enemy comes with Ogre Armys or Dragons.

This is an quite nice mix so far. Because it can stand against most of the standart PvP army sets like Macemen Rush, Cavalry Rush, Ogre Mass or Dragon Army.
Of course if faced with an Full scale Army including Infantry and Cavalry on full Power its in real Trouble because I dont have the Forces to keep an closed front against massive Knight and Swordsmen Forces for example-



my my

As for Newbe Protection.
Well actually I think there is an very easy way to make Sure Dragon Only Armys will lose Popularity.
That is to simply allow to Designate one of your Armys as Quest Army.

This One Army (each player can only have ONE) will either not be into PvP at all or will be countet as Half STR Army.
Of course it cant seek PvP itself.

This way Players can use their Siegeweapon Mass Army which is marching and made for Anti NPC Battles for Questing and Sieging and so on.
And dont need to Fear being Faced with an well mixed PvP Army.
Or at least not one which will totally outmatch them because theyre hindered by their Mass Fighting Forces.

Think that should actually solve an Big part of the problem here.
Because the Targets of those Noobhunting Dragon Armys would dissappear and those increase the risk of them running into Armys specially mixed for PvP battles and thus causing them to lose Dragons instead of farming Crowns.


Greetz
__________________
In the Shadow of the Black Cross. We Fullfill our Duty in your Name.
And Look forward to the Day we Return to your side Silvanos.
Watching over our Comrades as they Fullfill their Duty in your Name.
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  #20  
Old 03-07-2013, 12:34 PM
miklos1 miklos1 is offline
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dang that brought a tear to my eyes. lol best put rebuttal i have ever read.
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