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  #11  
Old 06-06-2012, 04:18 PM
finneas18 finneas18 is offline
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OK balance.... I know you devs really hate orks .... but
I just looked at the elfs again..and i dont know if i should laugh or cry....

The following example....

Elfs:

Forrestwarrior trait:

- Reduced costs for all militaryunits
- Reduced buildtime for all military units
-25 % hp armor and dmg bonus
- 50 stamina for all units
- 30 % speedbonus for all cavalery

Now Orcs

Horde trait:

- Reduced costs for all militaryunits
- Reduced buildtime for all military units expect( labors and marauder)
- nothing

Do you maby see any differenc?

Sry this is....
So Please equals those traits or remove that nonsense from elfs or whatever...

2. Archmages trait

100 Staminabonus for all units
20 % dmg bonus and 20 amor for enchanters ....
....

Orc have not a singe trait that improvs any militaryunit and elfs twice....

Sry even our main gametesting company here n germany lost every pvp battle with orcs.... no wonder ...


btw rangeupgrade on riding rangers + speedbonus and epic staminabonus dmg and so on =
hit and run taktik that no one can counter .....

Thats only a conclusion when i saw this .....

I know the elfs should have the best archers and thats ok so.. but i kept laughing when i read the tolltip on orcs which supposed to have the best meleeunits ingame. Then u have berserker
the *most heavly armored* ork infantery 25/0/25 laugh aigan no wealth upgrads to pus this ... any normal elfunit has more defs .... + 120 dmg .... decreased since beta as i see why ever not bad enough i think

And why have orcs no mass bonus on their cavalery..... almost no armor less dmg then other and then the same amountr in each sqad like the other races ...
So this unit is almost useless because any orge runs faster and does more dmg + orges can be wealth upgraded ....

Thats my intensions. I must get that rid of me sry but so muc imbalance since beta and then kept decreasing orc (dmg lowerd on almost all units...) until the last patch.
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  #12  
Old 06-07-2012, 12:13 AM
KurokawaMizaki KurokawaMizaki is offline
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finneas18, Elves got a 25-30% HP nerf last week and orcs got a buff of 30% hp at the same time. and the reason for elvens to have so much bonuses is so they can be about equal to each other races. as elvens got max 10-16 soldiers in a unit ors got slightly more at around 24-30 so if they get a huge attack/hp boost they will be op. And most of orcs units are free so it should balance it somewhat and they spawn fast if you have enough tents and warg pens

what orcs needs in my opinion is that the self spawned units that is counted as 0.5 pop should also be counted in army making aswell. so instead of a 60 goblin unit max it should be 120 units for the 60 pop slots as a example that should balance the orcs out abit as atm they count as 1 pop when you make an army. additional balances like max amount of units of same type might have to be added if orcs gets a way huge power to maybe around 60 goblin units for 30 pop(in armies) and then maybe depending on the other unit types you put in the army, you'll add additional balance issues on the other units like lets say ogres max 5-10 in an army or make them take up 2 pop slots.


And the rest should also go for the other racees a set number of max amount of same units in an army. example 16 of each type or something like that. And then depending on the units potentional to be op lower the max number

Example
Dragons: 1 in army. 2-5 in town
Dwarven rifles: 2-5 in army. 10 in town
Hero type units: 1 in army each. 3 of each in town
Dwarven cannon: 5 in army, 10 in town
balance will be a issue for quite some time ahead
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Last edited by KurokawaMizaki : 06-07-2012 at 12:18 AM.
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  #13  
Old 06-07-2012, 05:59 AM
daikl daikl is offline
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I agree with finneas but first i'd rather have some bugs fixed like regions traits working for forrest orcs(dmg bonus for impaler/marauder not working),maybe make the berzerkers range/melee hybrids like they were supposed to be(with small range ofc),maybe change the military bonus on orc swamp(imho more dmg/hp for goblins is useless),and i didnt test yet but i dont think some entrenched(trait) bonuses work.
About berzerkers,make them as their name suggest(big damage,low armor),sorry finneas but they dont need armor,they need damage and speed,they need to truely go berzerk.
Kurokawa are you for real,you actualy suggested that we get more goblins in army(i for one dont use goblins in war armies) and fewer ogres?you want me to go to war riding on bicycles rather then tanks?get real dude,i strongly suggest you pvp with goblins(even lots of them) then come back and post.I agree massing same unit tactic should be limited in some way but not the way you suggested,its just bad imo.
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Last edited by daikl : 06-07-2012 at 06:08 AM.
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  #14  
Old 06-07-2012, 08:14 AM
KurokawaMizaki KurokawaMizaki is offline
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I just made a valid point and an example on a solution other then buffing all units in orcs. Goblins are not strong i know that, but what is Orcs main battle strenght it isn't in armour and weapons its in pure numbers.
Its what I personaly think, free units should take 0.5 pop instead of 1 pop for that you get 60 soldiers against someone who has 10-16 soldiers(elven) for same pop. and lvl 5 golbins all focused on attack and all upgrades done. they are fast deadly and lots of them, and be a real threat liek a large packof pirayas
the only other solution i would think of other then that is to increase the units size to 40-60 without changing the pop on goblins only.

this is how I atlest view orcs. I never said it was an optimal solution. As i have a orc and elven town. And i would think it would raise the fun level of playing orcs or against them. as the goblins will be more of a worry as of now they are just walking meat with a rubber hammer when going aginst upgraded human/elven units. pvping with goblins as they are now and make them as the core of an army isnt really possible atm. 6 units of my grandmasters(lvl5) would i think take out 2-3 whole squads each, and be abit over half strenght then my enchanters would come and heal up them to full strenght again


the only problem i would see with my idea with 0.5 pop s that it limits to more powerfull computer too handle all units on highest graphics

and daikl I dont think anyone in here would like to go against a army of 60 ogres. i would deffinatly not as i done a few ogree armys and they crush everything in their path if you have good micromanagement.

limitting every unit type i think is 1 step closer to a balanced gameplay
and limiting unit types should happend for all races
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Last edited by KurokawaMizaki : 06-07-2012 at 08:49 AM.
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  #15  
Old 06-07-2012, 09:07 AM
daikl daikl is offline
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I have all 3 orc towns,i played orcs in every game i could(war3,dow,l2,skyrim etc) and i know what an orc army should be like.
Your ideea is to FORCE orc players to use goblins,is the faction name ORC or GOBLIN? you must be confused.You are just suggesting the orc player just mass an army and simply rush?..no no..let me rephrase that...mass a goblin army and rush,right?
Lets give a quick example,in starcraft(first one) you had zerg,that made use of swarming tactics and they had zerglings(we can compare them to goblins in dof),and i dont think in mid-late game the zerg player used many of them(even at all) or made his army out of many,little and squishi units;haveing a faction that can swarm an enemy doenst actualy mean you only use that tactic or have the worst units(again with starcraft-they had the worse(zergling) and the best units for melee(ultralisk)).Your ideea to make us use goblins as core units for army is a TERRIBLE one. And i really like your thoughts on the orc play style,mass an army and rush the enemy,why not just say that every orc player out there is brain dead,i think every player who plays orcs should have as a forum title -cactus or plant -something that doesnt even speak just grunts and smashes keyboard.
So let me make another suggestion in regards to this problem.Orcs force should be in melee and the orc strategy should be to get the enemy in melee combat where their strenghts and numbers count.
Troops that are are armored and used for drawing fire(SLAYERS not goblins ffs) should move slower imo and the Shock Troops like berzerkers should move a little faster and give them more damage and health since their armor is just pathetic.
Orc cavalry is just useless right now imho,why not give them an option to snare enemy troops(use of net,glue,whatever),that would make orc use more strategies.
Long story short,if you kite my army and keep me at a distance well done you should win,but if i get you in melee(as a orc) i should have the upper hand.
My 2 cents,i welcome input.
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Last edited by daikl : 06-07-2012 at 09:11 AM.
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  #16  
Old 06-07-2012, 02:05 PM
finneas18 finneas18 is offline
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KurokawaMizaki

Quote:
Example
Dragons: 1 in army. 2-5 in town
Dwarven rifles: 2-5 in army. 10 in town
Hero type units: 1 in army each. 3 of each in town
Dwarven cannon: 5 in army, 10 in town
balance will be a issue for quite some time ahead
fully agreed.

I just wan t a eqall trait like forestwarriors for orcs because horde brings yu nothing you have any ressource probems to need that and the already have 2 economic traits. I Just wanted a militarytrait like the other races...

And pls spare me these runnig ohnehits named goblins. They are useless in all ways.
Any other unit is more than twice usefull so the 6 extra numbers mean nothing.
And i don t care that they cost nothing. There is a cap limit for each army and pvp is almos always equall in amrystrengh. And in those battle it doesn t matter how cheap a unit but how effectiv.

The only usefull units after the patch is the orge and the salyer now. anything else diess in seconds saw that when i attak an elf with standard values without forrestwaariors and upgrades aiganst my lvl 5 units fully upgraded -.-

So berserkers cant be upgraded but grand masters can be upgraded....
orc cavalry still only 10 unts in sqad as well no upgrads in anyway.... but elven cavalery can be upgraded

Bu it would be enough for me when orcs get a trait like forestwarriors even the humans got one as well.
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  #17  
Old 06-07-2012, 02:09 PM
finneas18 finneas18 is offline
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Its a simple caculation when your units are twice or even third as weak as the other units then yo need at least as twice or as third on nubers but you have only half more than those strong units or even the same number (cavalery)
Its not all about mass its about class as well...
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  #18  
Old 06-07-2012, 03:43 PM
finneas18 finneas18 is offline
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Quote:
Long story short,if you kite my army and keep me at a distance well done you should win,but if i get you in melee(as a orc) i should have the upper hand.
And thats the point. The description of the orcs promis the best meleeunits ingame.
So Orc should have the strongest melee units as elven already have superior rangeunits.

Orcs already have weakes economics and strongholds and are supposed to be an offensive race ..
so they should have at least one advantage there ...

Now they are stuck at heavily armored elve units with more dmg while their superior archers cut your armys down ....
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  #19  
Old 06-07-2012, 04:32 PM
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GPS51 GPS51 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finneas18 View Post
And thats the point. The description of the orcs promis the best meleeunits ingame.
So Orc should have the strongest melee units as elven already have superior rangeunits.

Orcs already have weakes economics and strongholds and are supposed to be an offensive race ..
so they should have at least one advantage there ...

Now they are stuck at heavily armored elve units with more dmg while their superior archers cut your armys down ....
I couldn't agree more.
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  #20  
Old 06-07-2012, 04:47 PM
Zekarde Zekarde is offline
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I strongly disagree with the constant spamming of 'unit limits in armies' by several people, it isn't necessary, it doesn't make the game more strategic and if there is an underlying problem with the units in question it does not fix that problem. Massing large or expensive units is risk/reward, if you want to do it be my guest, but you will lose huge amounts of wealth doing it and it will take you all day to upkeep and maintain that practice. Meanwhile I will farm far more rewards with expendable armies.

Dragon armies are no different, as it stands they would level up rapidly and jump into the 1200+ region of str rating. If dragons need to be nerfed, then lets have them nerfed; I would suggest putting base arrow resist to 60 on all dragons and to lower the range of red and royal dragons by 15%.

Orcs are hard to say, I don't have quite enough experience with them but from what I see most people want a complete overhaul of orc army mechanics; this seems excessive. They could probably use a few more % on resists and hp, or a reminder that they can hire mercenaries from other races and use cavalry.

PVP sieges could use some balancing.
As it stands if anyone was to attack a fully upgraded human settlement they would be greeted with the matchmaking systems army, spike traps, a dozen trebuchet, 90 population, the ability to produce new armies mid battle, boiling oil, stone tippers galore, multiple layers of walls and towers they have to pass through... and a time limit.
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Last edited by Zekarde : 06-07-2012 at 05:01 PM.
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