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  #21  
Old 04-11-2008, 02:16 PM
†TYRANICK†™ †TYRANICK†™ is offline
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HOLY CRAP!!!! That's what am talking about!! Total chaos is what that looks as if it will turn into, and you call those "camps"? ROFL, there more like front line mini forts! Even better haha. Lol that towns gonna get pwned, it only appears to have its main outer walls and when they go...PAIN >< .

I had no idea that's what you meant by camps, i was thinking just some units which could build a few small structures, produce a few quick siege units to have a stab at the city hehe, not a full blown secondary mid field base xD Great stuff =D.

I would assume the differences in armour/hp wise between those palisade walls and the fortified stone city walls is considerably large i would hope =] (stupid question i know but...in some rts's theres just no diff). But wow...so cool, such a tease though grrr! =D

Man....just awesome! Which raises more questions :

- Will those trebuchets be able to reach the city's walls from that distance?
- If they do...how fast will the reload time be on them?
- How would the player in the city then counter? I.E. what would be a good tactic? I would assume some very fast moving infantry are cavalry to many come out 2 sides gates on the city, flanking the siege equipment, and then initiating a complete pincer attack on the siege equipment, and whilst the player is busy trying to keep you off his siege gear, your very own siege, or general structure attacking units come slowly up from behind to assault there "camps", almost a sorta "DENIED!!!!!!!!!" for your enemy hehe ^^. Well that's how I'd do it anyway.

BTW i see a lot of infantry behind the camp walls...wow imagine if like 6 gates opened at once and you just see 1000's of units rush towards the walls with boulders flying over your head and arrows whizzing past...

That would be a great moment for maybe a "cinematic camera" or something along those lines, or a First Person Perspective in which you literally see through 1 individual unit eyes...that would be epic, or some "follow" cam which works in the same way except you can freely look around...and see for your self that rock of death come hurtling at your ...and then to zoom all the way back out to near tactical level...truly, if you guys really do allow fully scalable camera angles (and maybe let us set up our own like said above) We could create our own movies or something hehe that would ROCK!...I assume you would allow us to save a reply of the battle?

Ooh...I so cant wait for this now, need...more...videos...cant......wait.........>< hehe that will keep me soundly dreaming for a while though hehe, thanks fomenko

Last edited by †TYRANICK†™ : 04-11-2008 at 02:27 PM.
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  #22  
Old 04-11-2008, 02:54 PM
Feweh Feweh is offline
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I really hate it when the enemy has long range catapults/trebuchets and they just sit there constantly pounding at any troops you have on the wall etc.



Also, you mentioned you can gather resources from the dead enemies.


Can you emphasize on that?
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  #23  
Old 04-11-2008, 03:41 PM
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The Witch King of Angmar The Witch King of Angmar is offline
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The concept is basically depending on what unit it is and how much it was upgraded or cost, you can gain resources from dead corpses of the enemies soldiers.
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Last edited by The Witch King of Angmar : 04-12-2008 at 12:21 PM.
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  #24  
Old 04-11-2008, 04:07 PM
†TYRANICK†™ †TYRANICK†™ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feweh View Post
I really hate it when the enemy has long range catapults/trebuchets and they just sit there constantly pounding at any troops you have on the wall etc.



Also, you mentioned you can gather resources from the dead enemies.


Can you emphasize on that?
Your being unnecessarily negative you know, I assume you've been reading whats been said about siege?

Its not like other games where if someone was to amass a single unit the game is won simply due to the overpowering nature of the unit.

Technically in my opinion if your stupid enough to sit back and get you self into those kinds of situations its your own fault...but the example screenshot from posted would not be a particularly difficult situation to get out of, considering you have units and know how to manage them.

Looking closer at the image you dont see any trebuchets firing do you? So I doubt they will have that much of a extreme range, if they did, im sure your cities defences will include long range counter measures.

But what do you expect? To be in a completely invulnerable situation where nothing can damage any of your defenses? For example, the turtle strategy doesn't work like that, it works by building up a base and emphasising priority on defense, choking, resources, and slowing enemy movement with those defenses as much as possible...up to a point of course...THEN you slowly begin to amass an army your self, which you can afford to exhaust all at once since if your wiped...you dont have to worry about your main base being swamped as soon as you leave...remember "defence" shouldn't be seen as to mean the same as "invulnerable". Your defenses are designed to slow, hinder, distract, surprise and to maybe overwhelm your enemy...NOT to cripple them...crippling is what your amassed army is for.

@ Your question.

Its called unit looting, you "loot" (or technically speaking, recycle) dead troops and stuff into resources which you can use against your enemy for a counter attack, hence my strategy I explained above to counter the situation in the screenshot (upon consideration obviously).

Nothing is set in stone dude, there will (most of the time) only be massively powerful strategies, and not massively powerful units. Then again even if there were, I wouldn't expect to seen billions of them. maybe only a few at a time or even just 1 that "has a chance" to severely shift the game in your favour...or your enemies of course.

Trebuchets...or maybe even things like, or similarly named to, the "Doom bringers", which AFAIK where like trebuchets except they were around twice the size, twice as slow, but hurled dozens of much bigger rocks/boulders than a standard trebuchets ammunition...Imagine throwing a tennis ball at someone, only to have them through an entire bag of footballs back at you, that sort of scale...but had a bit less range in terms of it to be fully utilised.

But they were rather later on in technology so I'm not sure if DOF will cover that period since it was right at the end of the era upon when they (or we technically) moved on to proper use gunpowder and other forms of ranged, heavy damage dealing military machines.

Having said all that, we will have to wait and see for our selves via some more in game footage and eventually, the demo
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  #25  
Old 04-13-2008, 05:08 PM
Feweh Feweh is offline
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Not being negative at all.


If you've played Stronghold or Stronghold 2 you've felt how fustrating it is when the enemie sits so far away from your base with 10 trebuchets and just constantly FIRE AND FIRES AND FIRES.

See in Stronghold when catapults or trebuchets hit your walls your men went flying and always died when they fell. So you could arm your wall with everything possible and they'd just sit back and destroy you with a trebuchet and a few archers.

As (forgot your name ) the producer said, walls arent just going to disapear which is a big relief, because in other games the wall just disapears and the enemy walks in, kills the fun. So what i want is a system that makes thing fun, makes sieges sieges.

Now of course theres gonna be catapults and stuff, but they should be used to destroy towers (Not completely) and wall parts, not completely destroy the wall etc.
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  #26  
Old 04-13-2008, 06:32 PM
†TYRANICK†™ †TYRANICK†™ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feweh View Post
Not being negative at all.


If you've played Stronghold or Stronghold 2 you've felt how fustrating it is when the enemie sits so far away from your base with 10 trebuchets and just constantly FIRE AND FIRES AND FIRES.

See in Stronghold when catapults or trebuchets hit your walls your men went flying and always died when they fell. So you could arm your wall with everything possible and they'd just sit back and destroy you with a trebuchet and a few archers.

As (forgot your name ) the producer said, walls arent just going to disapear which is a big relief, because in other games the wall just disapears and the enemy walks in, kills the fun. So what i want is a system that makes thing fun, makes sieges sieges.

Now of course theres gonna be catapults and stuff, but they should be used to destroy towers (Not completely) and wall parts, not completely destroy the wall etc.
Ahh sorry, just sounded as if you were being negative :P

No offense but the strongholds games are...well crap lol, there rather weak attempts at mimicking good siege warfare.

Well first off you have to take into consideration the actually power of a 20 ton boulder hurling down from the sky at about 100+ mph...that's eventually going to start to do some pretty devastating damage to you and your walls/defenses.

Walls will not disappear so i hear, their rumble will be left behind which will provide a bit of added struggle to ground units mainly infantry, but of course inevidently units will get through the walls, push back, destroy or open your gates and then your in the sh1t lol.

You mention a lot of what you dont want to happen...but dont actually elaborate about what you do want to happen . Make sieges sieges and make it fun...yeah but what do you suggest?

What other units do you think would be able to take a down a wall? Well AFAIK a battering ram will do the job very well. But then again vulnerable to infantry. Trebuchets were originally designed to knock wall mounted defenses off cities such as archers so...you cant down their real life historical origins lol, Oh as well a spread disease and famine into the cities as well, via rotting...all sorts hehe. Then usually whilst your enemy is running around disoriented, you try your best to get your siege towers up close to the walls so you can begin to climb over them, and fight your way through then, and climbs back further over to invade the city full scale.

Walls shouldn't protect you from everything, there not designed to withstand Armageddon (imagine that hehe), they are there as said loads of times, to hinder and slow your enemies movements (and of course to take serious punishment as well, to better enable you to control your opponent), so you can get onto the counter offensive which would be via Cavalry and infantry for the siege equipment, and your own archers and catapults to batter there forward bases and troops into retreating. Turtling just means gradual...it NEVER means sit there and do nothing...its a "wait for them to come to you, to get suppressed by your defenses, then to get crippled by you army that's been lay in wait for opponent" kinda thing.

I really wouldn't worry, DoF's system sounds incredibly intuitive even at this stage
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  #27  
Old 04-16-2008, 11:25 AM
Tynesider Tynesider is offline
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Wouldn't that be the way It was In real life, The attacker will naturally attack the weakest section.
It's then upto the defender to breach the gap with the right troops on the principal of It's easier to defend than to attack.
Or an expendable cavalry force to destroy expensive siege equipment and troops.
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  #28  
Old 04-18-2008, 03:03 PM
LordSlayer LordSlayer is offline
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Yea but in real life the siege equipment wasn't protected by a wall of 12 foot high ogres with clubs that are bigger than a humain!

You have to understand this is fantasy. It doesn't have to be 100% realistic siege warfare.
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  #29  
Old 04-18-2008, 03:19 PM
WearisomeWall WearisomeWall is offline
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If you want realism, don't play a fantasy game.
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  #30  
Old 04-18-2008, 07:52 PM
Neotyguy40 Neotyguy40 is offline
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