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  #31  
Old 06-25-2009, 07:41 PM
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but at the very least it gives the responsibility for a maps standards to a certain account when they register it.
Because the map would be modified (and therefor the file non-identical) there would be no feasible way for Reverie to create an automatic system to detect when someone had modified an original work. Maybe a long randomly generated string placed somewhere in the map file at map creation would work, but any hacker with the sophistication to beat a "read-only" flag could also modify those bits.

There was some word a while back about a map database that would be integrated with the online system. Since an author and date of submission would obviously be stored information, this would be all you'd need to verify who published the map first.
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  #32  
Old 06-26-2009, 04:05 AM
Aametherar Aametherar is offline
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Originally Posted by Darvin View Post
There was some word a while back about a map database that would be integrated with the online system. Since an author and date of submission would obviously be stored information, this would be all you'd need to verify who published the map first.
Ahh, that's kind of what I meant actually heh. I guess I worded it badly. Also part of what I meant is that the map has all the usual areas "author" etc. But that it also shows "Uploader" which is based on the players actual MMO game account.
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  #33  
Old 07-03-2009, 07:35 AM
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Will maps be downloaded as needed directly from people that have them like say, battlenet? or will it be a separate database? Or perhaps both If the database is controlled by rev. then all they need to do is connect maps to the uploading account, if a map becomes popular it's up to the community to make sure only official versions are used, and since it will be easy to tell which is the current version An easy way to do this is to make sure the characters used for save files are limited, and the font has no way to make letters appear the same with a bit of cleverness like upper case i and lower case l in some fonts.

The problem with communities with the map theft and such is simple. There is no official database, and map makers rarely if ever dedicate any hosting - so there is never any real way to tell what's official and isn't. If map uploads are hosted officially, it gives us the tools as a community to know which is a legitimate copy and which isn't. When they're scattered across 5+ different hosting sites all under different aliases etc. it's impractical and unreasonable for the player to find out.

That's a bit off tangent, it all comes down to the community being responsible and given the tools so that it can be. I'm not sure I support a read-only file as should a popular map maker for whatever fall off the face of the earth - any subsequent updates/features/etc. aren't nearly as likely to happen. Over the years I've seen many maps carried on when the original creator disappears, faithfully kept up to date and such by fans because the map was open source - and the community knew which to follow and which to avoid. Of course it's possible that someone makes a work around for the read-only, but I doubt it. In a community this small I don't believe that map theft will be as big a problem for many reasons to begin with though. To reference battlenet again, it's easier to get lost in a sea of version numbers and faked updates for sure, but most of that comes solely from volume and again lack of official database.

Sorry for the wall of text but I've seen favorites of mine for various games die off completely because the original creator just up and leaves. I'd hate to see that happen here. Read-only has pros AND cons is what I'm getting at, I believe the pros are unneeded for this small a community, especially if we have some official way of tracking who made what and when it was released.
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  #34  
Old 07-03-2009, 08:20 AM
Kire Kire is offline
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I say put just passwords... easy way and it push off the ones that would change it but dont know anything how to pass that. Anyway no matter what kind of protection they do there will always be ppl that will exploit it, unless it harm the flexibility. So why complicate things if can be done a lot easier but little not so good. If they are not criminals they wont hack the passwords and we cant do anything else to prevent the "criminal doing" (tho you can double the guards but there will be always someone that will pass it somehow).
(tho i dont know how much is password hacking in use this days and if every kid know how to do it and they do it ... than this fail =P)
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  #35  
Old 07-03-2009, 09:41 PM
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Id have to say map permission being linked to the accounts it should be allowed rather than passwords sounds better. Tht way the only wya to get the map is illegal distribution or accnt hacking. Though I would have ot say this is probably quite a bit harder than passwords but a good game will make it ether way:}
Well this may require a specail link/seperate data base btu im not all fully studied on it so try to make sence of it;]
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  #36  
Old 07-03-2009, 11:34 PM
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The problem is that every system can and will be broken. This is why I think a read-only flag is the best solution.

The problem with passwords is that once there is a program that cracks the standard protections Reverie builds in (a case of when, not if) it can also tell you what the password is. This makes the password route a potential security hazard for naive mapmakers who use the same password for something important. Heck, that could turn into a legal liability!

The problem with attaching a map to an account is that it will be downloaded by people, and once it's downloaded it can be cracked and then submitted under their account. There is no way Reverie could make a complicated system to analyze a map for similarities to existing ones in its database, so this wouldn't stop people from submitting maps that were functionally identical with only a few cosmetic differences.

These systems don't offer any additional protection over a read only flag. Why overcomplicate this?
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  #37  
Old 07-03-2009, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darvin View Post
The problem is that every system can and will be broken. This is why I think a read-only flag is the best solution.

The problem with passwords is that once there is a program that cracks the standard protections Reverie builds in (a case of when, not if) it can also tell you what the password is. This makes the password route a potential security hazard for naive mapmakers who use the same password for something important. Heck, that could turn into a legal liability!

The problem with attaching a map to an account is that it will be downloaded by people, and once it's downloaded it can be cracked and then submitted under their account. There is no way Reverie could make a complicated system to analyze a map for similarities to existing ones in its database, so this wouldn't stop people from submitting maps that were functionally identical with only a few cosmetic differences.

These systems don't offer any additional protection over a read only flag. Why overcomplicate this?
You don't make the map connected to the account. You make the upload connected to the account. So when the creator uploads it, there is a permanent and viewable date of last update/first upload/version number etc. there's no way to crack this short of actually stealing that person's account, which is possible, though highly unlikely to happen, especially if it's hosted by rev. And again you're ignoring what happens when a map maker up and leaves, and nobody has an editable version of the map, and it dies. This alone makes read-only a double edged sword, given a database and the system I've described, you have more protection - IE original upload date that can't be changed, irrefutable proof of who the creator is. The first uploader. And no drawbacks, or potentially having the map discontinued because of unforseen real life happenings.
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  #38  
Old 07-04-2009, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Haeso View Post
You don't make the map connected to the account. You make the upload connected to the account. So when the creator uploads it, there is a permanent and viewable date of last update/first upload/version number etc. there's no way to crack this short of actually stealing that person's account, which is possible, though highly unlikely to happen, especially if it's hosted by rev. And again you're ignoring what happens when a map maker up and leaves, and nobody has an editable version of the map, and it dies. This alone makes read-only a double edged sword, given a database and the system I've described, you have more protection - IE original upload date that can't be changed, irrefutable proof of who the creator is. The first uploader. And no drawbacks, or potentially having the map discontinued because of unforseen real life happenings.
Thanks thats what I was aiming for in waht I said not word for word of course but I fell better now that someone with some actual facts in it can make a suggestion:}
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  #39  
Old 07-04-2009, 11:35 AM
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So when the creator uploads it, there is a permanent and viewable date of last update/first upload/version number etc. there's no way to crack this short of actually stealing that person's account
How is this uncrackable? It's anything but! The moment the creator makes his map available for the public to play, they can download it. Once they download the map, it can be cracked. The moment the map is playable by the public, it can be cracked, end of story. Once they've cracked it, they just change the file name and upload it on their own account.

Quote:
And again you're ignoring what happens when a map maker up and leaves, and nobody has an editable version of the map, and it dies.
I don't see how attaching the map to an account would change this. If the map creator didn't provide his account to someone else the map is still "dead". In both my case and your's, the map maker must provide the unprotected version to his successor in some fashion. In my case, by giving them a version of the map that is not set to read-only, and in your case by giving access via his account.
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  #40  
Old 07-04-2009, 12:35 PM
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why have read-only maps that way you would get loads of dead maps like somone said and instead have an original uploader and last uploader so people will know that a map is just a copy
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