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Old 05-28-2008, 08:12 AM
fyro11 fyro11 is offline
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Hi there,

In the Total War series (of which I've only played Medieval), I really liked the pre-battle period/phase. The thing I liked is when both armies on either side line up their units, rather than just send them straight from their base to attack the enemy units. The methods of war (generally speaking) can briefly be divided into three:
1) Harassment (by this, I mean the continued assault where a steady stream of units keeps harassing the enemy)
2) Random skirmishes/flashpoints (this is where skirmishes occur wherever army x clashes with army y).
3) Preparative + organised (this is where both sides have prepared to the best of their ability, and line their armies up for war in rank fashion, taunting each other).

Of all the RTS games I've played, most disregard the last method of war, due to the perceived 'problem' I've highlighted and underlined. As you'll see, this last method adds so much more realism and it's not really a problem either.

So let's use a scenario. You are in your stronghold and the enemy surrounds your base, I think all three methods should be permitted. The last one could be implemented in this easy way: stamina. Just add stamina. For trekking all the way from their starting point or base, the enemy that surrounds your base could have lost stamina, even if it not be a lot. The affected units could just about be everything excluding siege. If the enemy has, say, 80% stamina, they would be discouraged from attacking straight away, and instead, could line up their units and siege weaponry (till the units reach 90% stamina), to make the siege effective and devastating.

On the other hand, this time period could give the defenders an oppurtunity for a 'sortie', i.e. come out of the base and lay as much damage on the enemy, and then run back inside. This, in turn, would lessen the blow of the siege. Also, the old-school tactic of attacking straight from the off would still be available but the enemy would know that their chances of succeeding would be somewhat decreased due to less stamina.

Anyway, these are just some thoughts that came to my head. Of course, it's totally up to you.

EDIT: I should also mention that the reduction in stamina would affect all the stats of the unit, i.e. decrease them by 20% if they were to have, say, 80% stamina.

This system would also promote scouting to see the number of enemies and where the enemy is located, etc. Alternatively, scouting may just be a bad idea, though I sometimes imagine individual riders on horses scouting through the forests to explore the woodland home of the Elves, and all of a sudden "whoosh"- "thwack"!, an arrow out of a ranger's bow knocks the rider off the horse. It'd be amazing.

Last edited by fyro11 : 05-28-2008 at 08:33 AM.
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Old 05-28-2008, 09:00 AM
frankein_fish frankein_fish is offline
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Hmm not bad im a total war fan too played all games except Shogun
Well as i said: great idea
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Old 05-28-2008, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fyro11 View Post
Hi there,

In the Total War series (of which I've only played Medieval), I really liked the pre-battle period/phase. The thing I liked is when both armies on either side line up their units, rather than just send them straight from their base to attack the enemy units. The methods of war (generally speaking) can briefly be divided into three:
1) Harassment (by this, I mean the continued assault where a steady stream of units keeps harassing the enemy)
2) Random skirmishes/flashpoints (this is where skirmishes occur wherever army x clashes with army y).
3) Preparative + organised (this is where both sides have prepared to the best of their ability, and line their armies up for war in rank fashion, taunting each other).

Of all the RTS games I've played, most disregard the last method of war, due to the perceived 'problem' I've highlighted and underlined. As you'll see, this last method adds so much more realism and it's not really a problem either.



Dawn of fantasy does not go in periods/phases, it is in real time.

All of what you have stated is possible in Dawn of Fantasy, It depends on the players playing, most(orcs lets say) will most likely just attack you on sight and try to loot your dead army for resources. Unless you defeat them.

attacking a stronghold randomly without command and or sending in units in one small group at a time will not do much of anything, so you may see a bit of player to player taunting as you both assemble massive the armies around and in your stronghold.
If your enemy is skilled and commands well, and uses siege towers, ladders, battering rams on gates and other siege equipment to allow his armies on top of and inside your stronghold... yea your pretty much screwed, unless you got a large enough force to fight inside your walls, thing is, is if he is smart, he will start destroying all your houses so your population limit goes down so you cant make any more units temporarily; you could get stuck trying to build houses instead of training troops while he brings in his new second army he just build. Things can get complex. :P



Quote:
Originally Posted by fyro11 View Post
So let's use a scenario. You are in your stronghold and the enemy surrounds your base, I think all three methods should be permitted. The last one could be implemented in this easy way: stamina. Just add stamina. For trekking all the way from their starting point or base, the enemy that surrounds your base could have lost stamina, even if it not be a lot. The affected units could just about be everything excluding siege. If the enemy has, say, 80% stamina, they would be discouraged from attacking straight away, and instead, could line up their units and siege weaponry (till the units reach 90% stamina), to make the siege effective and devastating.

On the other hand, this time period could give the defenders an oppurtunity for a 'sortie', i.e. come out of the base and lay as much damage on the enemy, and then run back inside. This, in turn, would lessen the blow of the siege. Also, the old-school tactic of attacking straight from the off would still be available but the enemy would know that their chances of succeeding would be somewhat decreased due to less stamina.

Anyway, these are just some thoughts that came to my head. Of course, it's totally up to you.

EDIT: I should also mention that the reduction in stamina would affect all the stats of the unit, i.e. decrease them by 20% if they were to have, say, 80% stamina.

This system would also promote scouting to see the number of enemies and where the enemy is located, etc. Alternatively, scouting may just be a bad idea, though I sometimes imagine individual riders on horses scouting through the forests to explore the woodland home of the Elves, and all of a sudden "whoosh"- "thwack"!, an arrow out of a ranger's bow knocks the rider off the horse. It'd be amazing.



1. Most Human strongholds have back gates so you can send out armies (or scouts) from the back to flank your attacking enemy, unless the enemy is laying seige to you from all sides. in that case, hold on, fight hard or perish. Lol.

2.Many military units have abilities that are activated with what stamina they have, therefore, if they are tired, they do have a less chance of beating the enemy if the enemy is using his abilities; for example: if you have 20 enemy swordsmen running across a field to your 20 swordsmen, and they are near to, or out of stamina, your army can then use abilities to crush the weakened army, swordsmen for example can create a block formation, which gives them; I recall 20%+ more armor, inturn will crush the tired swordsmen as every hit they do is less effective.
Just about every unit has at least 1 ability to use when it has the stamina needed to perform it.

3. All units have several Stances, therefore it is easy to tell your units to ‘hold ground’ rather then just attacking on sight and going in like a random horde.
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Last edited by Joseph Visscher : 05-28-2008 at 03:36 PM.
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Old 05-29-2008, 05:47 AM
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Hey Fyro, do I know you from somewhere?
Will there be a serparate bar of stamina below the health bar?
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Old 05-30-2008, 08:25 PM
fyro11 fyro11 is offline
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Thanks very much Joseph; I'm glad to hear the system you have in place, and will to a good degree, bring about the type of warfare that I have in mind.

I remember the old method of destroying the enemy's houses from AoE1 and 2, so yes it is very effective. Just as a separate question, will the houses be in the inner 'sanctum', or the outter?

Oh, and whose that, Puppeteer? Pfftt! Will this weirdo please stop stalking me? :P

Nah, I like the idea though of having a stamina bar. Though if the stamina only disables a battalion from using an ability, then maybe it could just be like an on/off 'dot' touching the left/right side of the health bar?

I would love it, if the stamina reduced a battalion's movement and attack speed. That would be subtle, but yet the perfect recipe for realistic, lifelike battles. The option of a stream of units would still be an option through maybe transportation (if it exists), or even at lesser ability (i.e. lesser attack and movement speed). But even if you guys think it'd be better without the above suggestion, then I'm still happy with your decision and (over)excited about the game.
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Old 05-31-2008, 11:30 AM
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I've never been fond of stamina, as though it makes sense and is realistic I never liked it's drastic effects. Afterall, after all that marching it won't have much of an effect to such an extent as some developers add to games when the adrenilin kicks in! lol
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