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-   -   wizards (what were you thinking) (http://www.reverieworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8738)

distantvoice 02-03-2014 03:27 AM

wizards (what were you thinking)
 
redundant thread

Konstantin Fomenko 02-03-2014 10:02 AM

Good point, and we did make a mistake here by making them too powerful and not adding enough counters. This is our top priority to fix in the upcoming patch 24.

Rouke 02-04-2014 07:31 PM

Not so bad
 
I bought the game for myself and even talked some friends into the game as well this past week and a half and I have to say that wizards do not scare all newbs like you might think.

The first time I was in a co-op and saw a Wave Wizzy used on a city I was very much in a difficult place to try and figure out what I would do if that was my city having meteors dropped on it. All that in mind I do have to agree that wizards in sieges do seem to make for an unpleasant time.

My next point is even with the way they are now any time I have encountered a wizard I either engage him with cav, spread my army out, sick a dragon on him, or currently have been in low army value battles to just avoid them.

Do not remove them all together. But there should be a way to neutralize their spells. Either on a wizard to wizard level *Maybe Deep Wizard shield should last longer against spells with larger AOE =)* or the Magic Academy should have an upgrade which stops magic from coming over the city walls.
To balance the magic academy you would put the shield on a timer which would run out toward the end of the timer for the match, so if the attacker only wishes to use magic he gets half the time, OR, put the Magic Academy shield on a toggle which the player controls *I picture a pool of 500 mana -1mana/s*

Just thoughts from a newb. Heard a lot of rage about this game but I have nerded it up since I have bought it.

Svulnar 02-04-2014 08:54 PM

I used to enjoy the big battles where each player would be forced to try and out think and out manuever the other. Where you had to think long and hard about what you would bring, and hope that your opponent had the units you had counters for. Or even improvising when they have something you do not have a pre-made counter to. These fights were the life and breath of the strategy and just plain out fun that i had in this game.

Those days are over.

Now, i see almost no strategy anywhere i look. If they do not have a wizard, i tend to just steam roll people rarely even losing a unit or two, even in my armies that are same level as them. Most of the time i don't even get close to losing any units. The other kind of battles I see are against wizards which take out over half my army no matter what. Be it the calm where i am guartenteed to lose at least 1/3 of my army to its blizzard or freezing spells before reaching it. Or the infamous Deep wizard that can AoE my entire army on the move, and if i do somehow reach him before I take a hit, he can just make himself immune to all dmg for a good deal of time, sometimes even teleporting away when the protection is about to be up. The Wave on the other hand is the one wizard i feel is for the most part balanced. He has good damage, but it doesn't heat seek, he has decent abilities for defense, but he doesn't become immune to dmg.

The Calm and the Deep wizards need to be re-evaluated. In all the time that I have played this game, these are the times I have the least amount of fun, nay, none at all and at these times it is when i spit vile. I am fine losing every single squad i possess in a good fight, might take me a few days to get them back, but if it is a good fight I am good with that. What I am NOT fine with, is losing entire armies to wizards that kill them in AoE, in single casts. Be it instant freeze or lightning that follows you, these defeats **** me off the most. It is because it is the ones that require the least challenge for anyone to use, and the least fun to play with or against. However, they currently are the deadliest way to wage war, fairness be hanged.

You need to take a good long look at the players who defend the wizards and those who try and convince you of their error. And please, get that Learn To Play crap about a *guide on how to kill wizards* out of here. You should NEVER need a guide on how to just COMPETE with a single unit type. NEVER.

thatpvpguy 02-05-2014 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rouke (Post 86222)
I bought the game for myself and even talked some friends into the game as well this past week and a half and I have to say that wizards do not scare all newbs like you might think.

The first time I was in a co-op and saw a Wave Wizzy used on a city I was very much in a difficult place to try and figure out what I would do if that was my city having meteors dropped on it. All that in mind I do have to agree that wizards in sieges do seem to make for an unpleasant time.

My next point is even with the way they are now any time I have encountered a wizard I either engage him with cav, spread my army out, sick a dragon on him, or currently have been in low army value battles to just avoid them.

Do not remove them all together. But there should be a way to neutralize their spells. Either on a wizard to wizard level *Maybe Deep Wizard shield should last longer against spells with larger AOE =)* or the Magic Academy should have an upgrade which stops magic from coming over the city walls.
To balance the magic academy you would put the shield on a timer which would run out toward the end of the timer for the match, so if the attacker only wishes to use magic he gets half the time, OR, put the Magic Academy shield on a toggle which the player controls *I picture a pool of 500 mana -1mana/s*

Just thoughts from a newb. Heard a lot of rage about this game but I have nerded it up since I have bought it.

svulnar and myself play a lot and played a long time
and we help a LOT of new players, what your saying is not the message 90% give us
I doubt your armies are up to the str lvl needed for decent pvp yet so you properly haven't faced the pvp wizard

but all that is a sep issue
adding unthought out untested unit to the game changes the dynamic's of pvp massively
unless u pvp at decent lvls you won't see the effects, no time to form groups, wizards mix with other units in unit pic so have to be manually separated, and each has to have own ctrl group
to be able to use
the list is a mile long and unless you pvp at 1k or more it seems trivial
a lot played for epic long drawn out tactical battle not 1 minute 30 second wizard based stuff
just having the unit nerfed or not wrecks pvp, now need extra specialist units in EVERY army
but still only have ctrl 1-6, can't use any slow moving units now in pvp,
the changes they cause are far far beyond the mere spell damage
the unit was made by someone with no concept of high lvl pvp or strategy in battle

Rouke 02-05-2014 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatpvpguy (Post 86229)
svulnar and myself play a lot and played a long time
and we help a LOT of new players, what your saying is not the message 90% give us
I doubt your armies are up to the str lvl needed for decent pvp yet so you properly haven't faced the pvp wizard

but all that is a sep issue
adding unthought out untested unit to the game changes the dynamic's of pvp massively
unless u pvp at decent lvls you won't see the effects, no time to form groups, wizards mix with other units in unit pic so have to be manually separated, and each has to have own ctrl group
to be able to use
the list is a mile long and unless you pvp at 1k or more it seems trivial
a lot played for epic long drawn out tactical battle not 1 minute 30 second wizard based stuff
just having the unit nerfed or not wrecks pvp, now need extra specialist units in EVERY army
but still only have ctrl 1-6, can't use any slow moving units now in pvp,
the changes they cause are far far beyond the mere spell damage
the unit was made by someone with no concept of high lvl pvp or strategy in battle


If you read my post I explain that I KNOW I have not faced a high tier army and one of the ways I avoid the high level wizards is to not have an army value of 1k. I make this point for your "I doubt" statement about my army value when I specifically addressed that point in my post before hand because it was such an obvious observation =)

I do agree with most of what you are saying though I have vs.ed mages before. One time even 3 hero units which had about 600 army value vs my whole unit based army. I won. Secret? Cav knock over mages and stop them from casting.

I see the point made about the wizards and how there are some balances to make. Many people who complain are old players and to a new player it appears they are more adverse to change than unhappy with a broken system. I think wizards could use some re-tooling but as a newb who started playing AFTER their implementation I have not been discouraged by them.


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