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-   -   pay to win :( (http://www.reverieworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8072)

SunSic 07-13-2013 09:32 AM

pay to win :(
 
i have followed this game since it was in development. i was very excited when it finally went to beta, even tho we could only try out single player. when it finally released i got it right away, anxious to play an actual mmorts. i spent a week raising an army, and fought 50 million bandit camps, leveling that army up (even tho every upgrade i did, to any unit, did not stick, and i would always hafta re-apply the upgrades everytime i clicked on a unit). im not too much into pvp, but, i was pretty confident that id be able to hold my own, with my army of 200 well-trained soldiers!

then... the very first attack on my castle! the anticipation and excitement of being able to pit my army against another's! until i saw that the opponent had come at me with a whopping THREE (3) units. thats it. his entire army consisted of THREE (3) units. it might have been laughable, had these THREE (3) units not tore up my ENTIRE army. yes, the one i spent a week training up. i dont care if youre uber ninja orc on crack... 3 dudes should NOT be able to destroy an entire army of 200 or so soldiers. this person won because they paid a few dollars more than i did, and so, got a few units that are apparently immune to regular damage. it was absolutely rediculous. i was so terribly disappointed in this game, that held so much promise.

uninstalled :(

R-A-B 07-13-2013 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunSic (Post 82945)
i have followed this game since it was in development. i was very excited when it finally went to beta, even tho we could only try out single player. when it finally released i got it right away, anxious to play an actual mmorts. i spent a week raising an army, and fought 50 million bandit camps, leveling that army up (even tho every upgrade i did, to any unit, did not stick, and i would always hafta re-apply the upgrades everytime i clicked on a unit). im not too much into pvp, but, i was pretty confident that id be able to hold my own, with my army of 200 well-trained soldiers!

then... the very first attack on my castle! the anticipation and excitement of being able to pit my army against another's! until i saw that the opponent had come at me with a whopping THREE (3) units. thats it. his entire army consisted of THREE (3) units. it might have been laughable, had these THREE (3) units not tore up my ENTIRE army. yes, the one i spent a week training up. i dont care if youre uber ninja orc on crack... 3 dudes should NOT be able to destroy an entire army of 200 or so soldiers. this person won because they paid a few dollars more than i did, and so, got a few units that are apparently immune to regular damage. it was absolutely rediculous. i was so terribly disappointed in this game, that held so much promise.

uninstalled :(

Multiplayer has a feel that goes against common expectations and as such can initially be deeply frustrating untill the hidden tricks and traits can be learned.
I would also ask if these 3 units were indeed units or single 'heroes', if so its possible that a combination of skill spending meant that the amount of men you can put around them in melee combat did not do enough damage to outweigh there regen and resistances. Something like this is best countered by specing mass damage and hoping you can wear them down.

I do hope you read this because I can speak from experience that my first multip[layer was a keyboard throwing nightmare that ended in an angry 'report a bug' mail to the devs. But upon deep reflection I was playing the game the way I thought it should be played, not how it actually should be played and changing my playstyle helped dramatically improve my happiness with the game.

I will say that with smaller, more elite armies the problem is you can only get so many people hitting them in the face and as such (as I've said before) high resistances and regen can make them appear immortal. Counters to this are plenty of archers that can all attack regardless of man-to-man contact and as such have a massively increased dps advantage. give them fire arrows that provide 125 of completely unmitigated damage for every man in the unit and those heroes will drop like sacks of arrow punctured and burnt potatoes.

I hope you get a chance to read this, have a rethink and give the whole thing another go.

Hi11Zone 07-13-2013 04:40 PM

His three units or 3 hero's, had nothing to do with pay to win, you can easily get the same units just by playing the game. What level was your army and your units how were they specced, you need to take that all into account.

theinternetman 07-13-2013 05:35 PM

These players quitting will hopefully be a wakeup call for unit resistances to be nerfed across the board. I would even go so far as to suggest the complete removal of the ability to upgrade unit resistances because clearly the developers are not aware of the insane mitigation never seen in any other RTS to date that is present in DoF.

Hi11Zone 07-14-2013 10:33 AM

Once again I will re assure you, it is not pay to win, yes you can build faster, yes you can buy resources or units, but you still have to spend hours leveling them. Also you probably had no idea but their is daily rewards for free for all players for any item in the market place including units.

I could buy 100000s crowns, and I would be no better then a player with 200. You can't fight someones castle if they have a higher rank then you. This is an mmo, its supposed to be slow, your supposed to get satisfaction of building up your town. An average town with out crown spending can take 25 hrs. Your not supposed to be done in 1 hr like starcraft or age of empires. Yes their is a very steep learning curve, I will give you that, but we have so many great team members to asist you and great threads on the forum to help you out.

Crowns are so easy to earn. so many of our players can earn up to 500 a day, it's not hard at all, and i've shown the community how to do it.

And once we finish our pathfinding patch, almost done bye the way, it will be a brand new game. Keep in mind their is only 5 of us working on a 20 person project.

Cocozaurus 07-16-2013 11:08 AM

Resistances should be capped at 60% maximum, it's just ridiculous how far it could get. And with the HP regen it goes even worse.

It's not a Pay to Win, it's just that the combat system is not good enough to provide full enjoyment.

EnglishPlayer 07-16-2013 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hi11Zone (Post 82967)
Once again I will re assure you, it is not pay to win, yes you can build faster, yes you can buy resources or units, but you still have to spend hours leveling them. Also you probably had no idea but their is daily rewards for free for all players for any item in the market place including units.

I could buy 100000s crowns, and I would be no better then a player with 200. You can't fight someones castle if they have a higher rank then you. This is an mmo, its supposed to be slow, your supposed to get satisfaction of building up your town. An average town with out crown spending can take 25 hrs. Your not supposed to be done in 1 hr like starcraft or age of empires. Yes their is a very steep learning curve, I will give you that, but we have so many great team members to asist you and great threads on the forum to help you out.

Crowns are so easy to earn. so many of our players can earn up to 500 a day, it's not hard at all, and i've shown the community how to do it.

And once we finish our pathfinding patch, almost done bye the way, it will be a brand new game. Keep in mind their is only 5 of us working on a 20 person project.

Honestly, i wish the game-play development was even slower. i find myself losing interest in the game due to it not fulfilling my sim-city needs (not enough buildings, everything gets finished SO DAM FAST) Resources come so easily and quickly, they are hardly even a factor. If you ever played games like Ogame or ikariam, those are quite similar to DoF, only they are browser games and have a lot less functional control. i was so excited for DoF being a live moving version of those, but sadly DoF maxes out too fast. playing those games (ikariam and ogame) it took -days- to complete high level buildings, it took actual resource grinding to start their upgrades. research wasn't instant, they took days, sometimes weeks to complete.

but i must inquire, does the company actually make money pass the initial sale of the game to the players? because it seems like crowns are so easy to come by that their isnt a need to spend real cash into the game.

Konstantin Fomenko 07-17-2013 11:17 AM

@EnglishPlayer

It`s true - only 0.3% of our players buy crowns, and we look at it more of a way for players to donate to our company, rather than us greedily milking players, and as you have guess - we are not making much on this at all. Besies - we treat these funds - as players "investing" into new content, and. So for example whatever funds we got from Crown sales in April/May went into paying for the 4 (with 2 more to come) new units we added in July. And with current income we received for Crown sales in June/July we plan to add several new units later this summer.


@Cocozaurus, theinternetman

To some extent I agree with 60% cap and self-healing decrease. As you could see we are constantly working on the balance - with every patch bringing new changes, so with time we`ll find the right values be it 60% or 70% or 80% for resistance.

@R-A-B
Sorry to hear about your bad experience. I`ll raise this with our balancing scripter Vicious and see if maybe it`s time to lower resistance/self-heal rates.

Keep in mind though - if you would have had stone walls - these heroes would be unable to breach your town walls. Also the max limit of units you could have had in your town was 90. And as another player suggested - it`s really easy to deal with these heroes by focusing all your units on one hero.

R-A-B 07-17-2013 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konstantin Fomenko (Post 83077)
@EnglishPlayer

@R-A-B

You mean @Sunsic!

theinternetman 07-17-2013 02:59 PM

I'm usually the first to scream pay to win but anyone who thinks DoF is pay-to-win is blissfully (or not so blissfully) unaware of how easy it is to farm crowns by just doing NPC sieges or PvPing. Any item mall system that lets you directly earn the cash shop currency by playing the game is by definition not pay-to-win.

Half the reason why I can overlook some of the issue with DoF is that the cash shop system is extremely fair toward non-paying players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konstantin Fomenko (Post 83077)
@EnglishPlayer
Cool Post

Awesome, glad to see you're looking into it. To be honest I am one of the players abusing the insane mitigation of units but it's not in the best interest of this game being successful if people quit because of imbalanced units.


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