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kyama 05-27-2009 07:54 AM

Balance?
 
I was just wondering are you guys balancing each race. Or would it be an advantage to pick one race over the other. Reason why i ask if this game is to make it as an esport, it would have to be balanced or are you not interested in making it an esport?

I told people about this game and many say it looks fun, but it would probably not be esport friendly and will be imbalanced.

Alex Walz 05-27-2009 09:18 AM

It sounds like they've done a ton of work balancing it. That's mostly the reason the eight races have been reduced to three. Each race and region will have its advantages and disadvantages - like men will probably have the strongest walls and cavalry, elves the strongest archers and magic, and orcs the highest population and the most infantry-based at the expense of a strong navy. Then each region will have a varied geography and resource count, so that some areas will be best for turtlers, boomers, etc. But that's common in all RTS games. It is balanced and whichever region and race you pick, you will still have a fair chance against any other region, you just might want to pick them based on your play style for best results.

What's an esport?

Catabre 05-27-2009 10:06 AM

esport - E Sport, like C&C 3, they play the games competitively and telecast them.

Variety is one thing I love about RTS, but it can be hard to balance, case in point; AoE3.

nickson104 05-27-2009 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyama (Post 14437)
I told people about this game and many say it looks fun, but it would probably not be esport friendly and will be imbalanced.

*unbalanced*
And I believe they couldnt be more wrong... this looks to be one of the most well balanced games I can remember as the 3 races all seem balanced with each other and as far as I can remember there are no tideturning units in it really... even the heroes will be balanced unlike on games such as LOTR and C&C where they could take armies down with ease...

Yes each race has it's differences but the advantages will be countered by its disadvantages... and for a change elven archers WONT be extremely OP and even have the ability to pretty much snipe across the map.

Also if I remember rightly... normal weapons such as swords and arrows cannot harm buildings which was an annoying part of many RTS games where walls were destroyed by a few men hacking away at it with swords...

The Witch King of Angmar 05-27-2009 02:33 PM

Now that is realism. I never understood then how units should take out buildings. I could see them being able to set fire to it or to pillage it instead of the usual. That would be cool.

LiTos456 05-27-2009 03:04 PM

Yeah, the races are so balanced I still don't know which I'll pick. So I think this isn't a question, I'm sure we'll spent an hour at the screen thinking about which race to pick.
Can't wait!

Darvin 05-27-2009 03:23 PM

Balance is a very touchy subject to say the least.

A typical E-Sports Definition:
The variation in strengths and weaknesses of any given faction are subtle enough that the outcome will be reflected by the skill of the player and not the map or factions selected.

Fairly simple; make the factions and maps as varied as you like, but at the end of the day a match should boil down to who was the better player, not who picked the "right" faction. Starcraft is the poster-boy for this definition.

However, it leaves two outstanding omissions. The first is that of player skill levels. It may be that two players of very high skill find the game balanced, but two players of very low skill it may not be. Some techniques may not be available to those of moderate micromanagement, which changes what strategies work and how well they work.

The second issue with the definition is that it leaves open the issue of over-used and under-used units. It may be there is one and only one strategy available in many situations, or that one strategy is viable in all situations. Many people would not consider this balanced, and a perfect example is the mutalisk of Starcraft.

Jean=A=Luc 05-27-2009 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiTos456 (Post 14463)
Yeah, the races are so balanced I still don't know which I'll pick. So I think this isn't a question, I'm sure we'll spent an hour at the screen thinking about which race to pick.
Can't wait!

You seem to have a skewed perception of balance. There's no way to make a valid comment on balance without playing the game and not just 2 or 3 matches but more like a few dozen.

What you're probably saying is that all races seem equally appealing and "cool".

To me DoF doesn't look like a game geared towards e-sports (not necessarily a bad thing) which I don't care much about anyway but we'll see. Also it's almost certain that it will have a decent amount of imbalances when it hits the shelves, the question is how will it progress from there.

As Darvin said balance is a touchy subject and practically all developers have great difficulties with that aspect of their games.

Kire 05-27-2009 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyama (Post 14437)
I was just wondering are you guys balancing each race. Or would it be an advantage to pick one race over the other. Reason why i ask if this game is to make it as an esport, it would have to be balanced or are you not interested in making it an esport?

I told people about this game and many say it looks fun, but it would probably not be esport friendly and will be imbalanced.

This game should never become an esport, actually no game should be that. Ppl are just to lazy to go out and do some real sport or just do some real life stuff. Ppl in games just need to show others how good they are, how they are brave or evil .. how they can own them all and stuff cuz they are lowlife or their real life is a big fail and they are too scared or lazy or whatever to make it better. Sorry i am just an big racist of computer game geeks. They think they are kings in their little imaginary world but losers and nothing (big zero) and empty in real one. And about balancing (sarcasm) no they want to make elves better so i can pew pew all here muahahaha.
As you said in conclusion this game would probably not be an esport but not cuz of imbalances (or at least it shouldnt for a people sake).

Well i will make this post little longer :), i would say about responsibility. It is like designing an ultimate bomb which would destroy half of planet. And there is one Fred (imaginary name =P) who invented it. So here comes the responsibility to protect from the misusing it, so noeone would destroy half of the world, or you can just destroy papers and hide the idea and wait for someone else to figure it out (soon or later there will someone invent it if not him) and make him to decide about responsibility. Because the one who invented the bomb without protecting the misuse he is same guilty as the one who throw the bomb.
As to the topic, computer (not just game) designers should have that in their mind, about responsibility that destroy a children life because soooo cool game came out he couldnt stop playing it and parents didnt know how to react. What if those children would become top scientist who would bring peace to the world or found atlantis or made cure to all of the diseases, what if they would become your best friend? ..... Well as we know the computer disease is spreading faster than a plague and we cant walk on the road with our eyes closed cuz we are part of it, because of our mistakes, our needs cant and must not suffer others even if they think it is gold for them (they all think that if you are obsessed). It is not moral to make money for the sake of ppl who are obsessed of it instead of helping them (all computers stuff, not just games), referring here especially on world of warcraft and those esport games.
Some ppl say blame the parents because they let their children play too long but i say the responsibility should take also ppl who are dealing the drug around (drugs can be a specific medicine or a killer).

I know we live in a greedy and frustrating world where only money count, and i know ppl must get it for their living and i think making games can be a very beautiful, but dont overdo it and make it an esport or in a way that will consume ppl and that is your responsibility.

Sorry for long post and little offtopic but i felt the need of posting it cuz i like this game and the designers seems to be very talented and dont want to become this in a way that world of warcraft or any other did.
And this post is not intended to insult ppl but rather to make them thinking.
Ever heard that theory which says: make ppl busy, make ppl so busy and working so they wont have time to think for themselves and than we can manipulate with them. This count also for our busy/fast/unhealthy way of life, television, computers and other stuff.

kyama 05-27-2009 03:59 PM

Actually, If a game becomes esport. It will last longer and the community will be larger. I'm not a professional gamer(as in I don't get paid doing it). But I enjoy playing competitive games and also watching professional gamers play. And so what if people make money off of gaming?

Most esport games are very well made. The ones that don't make it is because of balance and are boring to watch. And your post is too long(no offense) and I got bored reading, maybe you should summarize next time...


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