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-   -   What usually happens when I try to get someone to play Dawn of Fantasy (http://www.reverieworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3462)

theinternetman 07-08-2011 09:19 PM

What usually happens when I try to get someone to play Dawn of Fantasy
 
I start showing them a few gameplay trailers, talk about the game mechanics, and usually the first thing they ask about is can they conquer other players and build and online empire.

I always tell them no and they instantly lose all interest and call it a glorified stronghold clone.

I can describe Dawn of Fantasy as one of those games where the wishes of the vast majority of the gaming community wants exactly the opposite of what the developers want. Reverie, you can ask them yourselves.

Commercially you have decided to dig your own grave and personally I don't care but I'm just saying that reverie could stand to make a lot of people happy and make a TON of money if they make some sort of way for players to conquer each other even if it's in smaller servers and it's limited to a period of a few weeks or months per game.

The biggest question I think most players ask when they play DoF for a little is "What does this game have to offer me other than a persistent castle gimmick on top of a fairly generic RTS with online multiplayer?"

I think the answer is.... well... not much.

I mean... we don't even get to customize our castles. The game tells us where to build! That's less freedom than most RTSes!

I see very little logistical issues with making a simplistic map with conquerable territories. You don't have to use your existing world map. You can make a network diagram with all the players in the game simulated by icons on a gigantic persistent simplistic map.

Eve's Star map for example:



I often wonder, do you guys just feel burnt out and want to release the game, some flavor content here and there like new units, call it an MMORTS when it's a Persistent Online RTS and then charge microtransactions all day?

You can dress up a pig in makeup all you want but at the end of the day it's still a pig.

Sorry if this post comes off as a bit abrasive, I'm trying to be real here, that's all. Tough love.

GPS51 07-08-2011 09:32 PM

I've lost count of how many posts like this one have come out when people don't see progress fast enough to suit them. This is not SHK and anyone who calls that an RTS game should have their head examined. Let dof be it's own bear and rise/fall when it releases :) The age of empires line did very well for 10 years and you never "conquered" someone's HC....shocker i know.

theinternetman 07-08-2011 09:45 PM

It has far more to do with development attitude than progress but thanks for putting words into my mouth?

I see the direction of the game going a very hackeneyed way and I'm wondering what it offers that other RTSes dont? How does it stand out other than cookie cutter castles? The current plans seem to just be more races and units, instead of thinking how to make innovative gameplay. I just hope the modding tools are powerful enough to make up for the stagnant development strategy.

Thus far no MMORTS exists except Shattered Galaxy. None. So why wouldn't developers pounce on the opportunity to create a new GENRE?

GPS51 07-08-2011 10:09 PM

Wait for DLC packs 1-5 they'll add a whole lot that other rts's don't have. I would totally agree that in beta/public build state it's got nothing on other rts's. I'm just glad more content is coming into the beta soon.

Henry Martin 07-08-2011 11:11 PM

Well I cant really say much about how it got to those. Other then most people one the forum treat Reverie as if they are a seasoned company that has the cash, time, and man power to do what they want when they want. And that they have been just sluffing off this how time doing nothing.

This company is small, and has went through a lot more than you will ever know with a team of nonprofessionals doing their best as making a game that I personally am surprised at the **** they went through and what they have now (more so now that I am a dev and have seen more). I joined the team late in development so I haven't had any input in the development.

Like GPS51 said, there has been a lot of these post about people knowing whats best for the game. Hell all games get these post that a handful of gamers dont like what they seen. Not everyone is going to like what someone is making. Sometimes companies just have to push through this and make what their product is and not what others try to mold it into.

I do understand your concern about this game and these developers have thought about what you are thinking, even though you question "What are they thinking? They should be doing this! This has been in development forever. They should have made something amazing by now. They dont know what they are doing!".

There is a lot of content that will be released after launch that will increase the the fun that you saying (like being able to take over stuff). The devs have said that a lot of what people are say will make it in game. Seeing as you are a new forumer you havent seen a lot of the suggestion that where put into the game that people wanted. Like a few of the units/defences are fan ideas. The new world map is a fan suggestion. The GUI (while a little broke and many complain about) is WAY different than it was when the beta started. As well as other things.

This game has taken in more input from the community than most of you new member give Reverie credit for. I've been here since like a year before the beta started (and now I wasnt a dev back than). This game has evolved a lot since the first better. Personall I love the where the game is headed and I hope they get enough support from the community to keep it going to end up as the amazing game its trying to be.

Just a bunch of thoughts running through my head.

theinternetman 07-09-2011 12:24 AM

I think my comments and reactions stem from a specific group of users who may not be the target audience for Dawn of Fantasy. Like many small game studios, community suggestions make it into the game and that's great, don't get me wrong. The way the game is designed as-is is not so much a personal issue as it is me reacting to such a very negative response to the game based on a lack of a certain game mechanic. Many players seem to not care about the attributes of a studio, they'll either decide to play or not. Consumers aren't quick to sympathize with companies in many cases unless they put on their indie hat and do something really crazy and innovative (Notch).

The modding tools are a major asset that I see a lot of opporunity in that differentiate this game from the pack. Warcraft 3's custom maps using JASS and vJASS spawned quite a few amazing games that give Warcraft 3 a decent online community so many years later. LUA is quite a bit more powerful than jass so as long as people are willing to learn a bit of programming we might see some great content come to Dawn of Fantasy.

It's not so much we don't like what DoF is, it's that we see a great potential and want to try to inflience the game to go in a certain direction that reflects our vision. Hell it's worth a try.

Defilus 07-09-2011 06:08 AM

Quote:

I mean... we don't even get to customize our castles. The game tells us where to build! That's less freedom than most RTSes!
Be an Orc, they get to choose where they want to build.

Grizzlez 07-09-2011 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theinternetman (Post 55849)
I start showing them a few gameplay trailers, talk about the game mechanics, and usually the first thing they ask about is can they conquer other players and build and online empire.

Read this post http://www.reverieworld.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=2016

You build your empire on the world map taking over NPC towns, building up your armies and completing quests. Then you can choose PVP where you try to attack your enemies stronghold or defend your own where you can win resources from your opponent and destroy their stronghold leaving them to have to rebuild. PVP hasn't been enabled yet so you won't find it in the beta.

This game has been in development for a number of years and in that time many suggestions have been posted and the Devs have taken these into consideration. At this stage of development the Devs have already constructed the game in a certain way based on what they feel the community wants and they would be unable to continually change aspects of the game each time a new suggestion is posted. They must take into account not only what people want to see but also what will make the game work best. Don't forget this is a company developing a product so they must also consider what is best for the company because otherwise they wouldn't have received the funding to develop the game or a publisher so we can eventually purchase it. I'm sure in the next few weeks there will be a lot more changes and I also expect some content to not even make it into beta but when the retail version is released we will likely see new things added.

Norsha 07-09-2011 08:34 AM

:):) ;) :D :cool: :eek: :p

theinternetman 07-09-2011 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grizzlez (Post 55866)
Read this post http://www.reverieworld.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=2016

You build your empire on the world map taking over NPC towns, building up your armies and completing quests. Then you can choose PVP where you try to attack your enemies stronghold or defend your own where you can win resources from your opponent and destroy their stronghold leaving them to have to rebuild. PVP hasn't been enabled yet so you won't find it in the beta.

This game has been in development for a number of years and in that time many suggestions have been posted and the Devs have taken these into consideration. At this stage of development the Devs have already constructed the game in a certain way based on what they feel the community wants and they would be unable to continually change aspects of the game each time a new suggestion is posted. They must take into account not only what people want to see but also what will make the game work best. Don't forget this is a company developing a product so they must also consider what is best for the company because otherwise they wouldn't have received the funding to develop the game or a publisher so we can eventually purchase it. I'm sure in the next few weeks there will be a lot more changes and I also expect some content to not even make it into beta but when the retail version is released we will likely see new things added.

Actually you can only loot an NPC town... not that anyone really cares about that as many other games do it much better. I've played the game for a few weeks now so I'm aware of the current game mechanics and the future ones.

It's clear the devs have decided (based on their posts) to blatantly say "No, we don't want to do this with our game" to the many many many people who want some form of online conquest or even ability to play against specific players. That's the entire point of a true MMORTS.

I know low-end graphic rehashes with less units that total war and worse siege mechanics than total war and worse conquest mechanics than total war isn't really going to sell well. What does this game have that Medieval II: Total War doesn't? Look at the majority of feedback about DoF, it's pretty obvious.

Persistent non-customizable (for the vast majority) castles with a small online matchmaking interface is not an MMORTS and Reverie is blatantly falsely advertising to justify micro-transactions because their publisher is probably forcing them in some passive aggressive form to do so.


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