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ash12181987 06-23-2008 12:33 PM

Real world Balance
 
I honestly couldn't think of another way of putting it in the title.

What I'm talking about, is that common, rock-paper-scissors approach to balance in which Armor A, is countered by weapon A, which is defeated by armor C, ect.

IE: Archers are defeated by Cavalry, who are weak to spearmen, who are weak to archers.

How much of this will there be? Will you have cavalry units, who are especially effective to certain units, and other units especially effective against those?

To add on to that further, with the Unit editor I read, that was possibely being released with the game itself, how far could one edit units in that in terms of the above mentioned subject. IE could one make a cavalry unit, that was light and fast, with light armor, especially good against ranged units, but horrible in fighting against most anything else?

Konstantin Fomenko 06-23-2008 12:51 PM

Great question.

Dawn of Fantasy doesn`t use a RPS system. Our Combat system stands much closer to RPG games, with units blocking, dodging and parrying hits.

We do have various sort of armor as well. And real world physics and units speed also play important role.

So, in balance system you need to consider units skill with his weapon, units armor, and real world physics.

I`ll have to end explanation of our combat system at this point, but here`s some examples:

Cavalry units are great against archers, not due to some damage modifier, but the fact that they simply can outrun arrows fired at them, and charge through the archer battalion.

Another example - whole bunch of fast attacking units like goblins will easily defeat huge unit like Ogre, due to his slow attacks, and lack of armor.

But same 20 goblins would be completely useless against human foot-knight, as they simply won`t be able to penetrate his armor.

And finally, lets consider Elven Defender, his skills at dodging and parrying attacks is so great that he can fight any opponent with any sort of armor. But he just doesn`t have the speed to run up to a group of archers shooting at him.


As for your question about unit editor - you can modify absolutely everything about a unit. So your example is easily accomplished.

ash12181987 06-23-2008 01:12 PM

Nice nice :)

Questions answered, and a couple more arise...

With the editor: The units you create, are they going to be replacing other units you have avalible, or are they going to be in Addition to units you have. What I mean is this: I play Stronghold 2 alot, unfortunately the modding of that game (To my eyes) is rather limited. If you go in and create a new unit, it has to replace an existing unit. So, you could never fully mod the game to have a (For example) LotR mod, because your units would simpley be varients of what you already had, and you wouldn't be able to fully stock both sides, because you can only have one model substitute another.

With allowing the full customization of units (Which I have been waiting for since Alpha Centari btw, so Thank you Very Much Reverie Staff!), how do you allow for balance? Is each player only able to take X number of unit designs onto the map in a senario or skirmish, or can you take everything, or is it up to the players involved, or what?

Also, with the Unit customization, is it going to be a seperate program Out of the game, or will it be In game?


By other question comes up with the combat with armor. You mentioned Blocking, parrying, dodging, armor values... In terms of mechanics, is it going to be a roll based Dice system, kinda like your traditional DnD game? I also wonder: how do you work with Blocking and Parrying?

I would also like to say, Again: THANK YOU FOR INCLUDING A UNIT EDITOR!

raving 06-23-2008 02:44 PM

i believe i heard somewhere that you cannot take self edited units in the mmorts battlefield, but that could have been maps aswell. But i dont think you can take self made units in there for since you can make them too strong, :) imagene, a non mounted unit with the speed of a horse, armor of a knight attack speed of an goblin, and strenght of a ogre.

Grizzlez 06-23-2008 03:57 PM

I think its for custom made skirmish maps/mods. The MMORTS isn't meant to be modded, as it is what the main feature of the game is.

Joseph Visscher 06-23-2008 05:12 PM

You are able to change the stats of units in the map editor for custom maps and missions. Adding completely new units/models or just editing units to create your own mods is quite easy granted you have the right modeling/animation software for the modeling/animation.
Although as far as the MMORTS part of the game you will not be able to drastically change the stats of your unit(s) or hero(es) except for 1 feature, units and heroes, will however be able to upgrade in certain stats such as defense, attack, damage, intelligent, etc, as they rank up. However it is not as drastic as you might think if your enemy has the better tactics. ;)

ash12181987 06-24-2008 07:39 AM

Wonderful, thank you all

Khyron 06-25-2008 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joseph Visscher (Post 7463)
However it is not as drastic as you might think if your enemy has the better tactics. ;)

I enjoy this i have always disliked when one person is able to get a Hero that they become unbeatable with, or they just build one really powerful unit that some how trumps a well balanced force (looking at you Command and Conquer Red Alert 2 Prism tank/ IFV force).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konstantin Fomenko (Post 7451)
As for your question about unit editor - you can modify absolutely everything about a unit. So your example is easily accomplished.

Wonder how long until the DoF dota like map is released, and how it would change should the Legend hero modification be released.

LordSlayer 06-25-2008 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joseph Visscher (Post 7463)
Adding completely new units/models or just editing units to create your own mods is quite easy granted you have the right modeling/animation software for the modeling/animation.

But will we be able to make models and textures that use better graphics then the normal game?

Grizzlez 06-25-2008 08:19 AM

Technically you can add higher poly models and more detaield textures. However, this could cause lag and it may become difficult when playing online. I would suggest that you look at poly counts and texture sizes of the official units to try to keep them similar.


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