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Swift sword 02-10-2010 09:09 PM

A Compilation of Ideas
After spending a couple months reading about DoF and learning more about the game and it's past history, I've decided to post my ideas and thoughts about the game itself and The Forgotten Races, amongst other things. I know some people won't like some of my suggestions, but I'm posting them anyways. Here goes!

City and Player Customization

As we all (well, most of us) know, Dawn of Fantasy has been labeled "A RTS with RPG elements" Yes, the main portion of the game is MMORTS mode and the strategy involved, but there's some RPG elements in the mix as well. Units can gain stat boosts upon level up and navigate obsticles that are usually dead ends in other RTS's. Exciting idea, eh? It's not a fully functional thought yet though-and I think it's worth expanding.

Why not take it further than climbing cliffs and swimming rivers? Why not take it further than leveling up and picking stat gains? If you read some of the Monthly Media, you'll note that the player has control of a hero during MMORTS mode. The lord of the city, as he is sometimes called. Why not allow players to customize this hero-just a little-right from the start. Let us choose his starter stats. Let us pick a couple of his abilities that he starts off with. Let us choose whether he wields sword or bow. Yeah, it'd be a fair bit of work to do. It probably would be too much to add even in a patch. But it'd be really cool to let us customize the heroes we'll be spending all our time with just a little.

And, adding onto that a little, I wish we could customize our cities a little more. I know walls are auto-built for two of the races and that those two also have build plots. I think walls may be auto-built for orcs too. In my mind, that could make for alot of similiar looking cities. If we could choose the shape of the city or something like that, I and others would be most grateful.

The Environment

A recent post in this forum, regarding "Border Towns" really piqued my interest. It's come to m attention that in mmorts mode, not many battles appear to be fought out in the woods or by the river. You don't go fight an enemy army out in narrow mountain passes-you sit in your city and wait for them to come to you- or the other way around. Yeah, hat's not a bad way of going around it-but there could be additions. We won't be fighting in the same surroundings, but let's face it-almost no one is going to ambush others when they could wait safely behing big bad battlements.

A good solution would be to put something-I'm not sure what-out in the territory for players to fight over. For example-fields that give a bonus to resource production, or a constant source of mercenaries that join up with you if you control some city/building or something. I've long since felt that there should be more than cities to fight over, but I wasn't sure what. That post gave me a couple ideas.

The Forgotten Races

Many of us have heard of the mysterious "Forgotten Races". These are other factions that Reverie had to cut due to lack of resources amongst other things. It's to early to think about an expansion but I'm sure sales will go well, so I'll go ahead and go over them now. I don't have time to go in-depth for each race (I'll elaborate tommorow) so I'll give a quick run-down:

Dragons: Dragons could, maybe, barely function as a full, playable race. I don't really like the idea of it, but there are unique features to dragons and lore of creatures like Drakes that would fit into that particular race. Buildings would probably be caves. I'd suggest against them in any possible expansions (yeah, I know, way to early to talk about that.
Dragons as a race: If I were Reverie I'd give them plenty of powerful unit choices to go with but some weaker units, like drakes, as well. They'd probably have the fewest units overall, but most dragons should be capable of flying. As for specialty units: Something like an ice dragon that works as a battering ram sounds good to me.

Minotaurs: Honestly, this is the weakest sounding of a possible race due to my knowledge of mythology. It simply can't click with me at all-you'd need to entirely re-think them to add em' in.
However, giving them a druidic-like twist would be pretty cool for spellcasters and unique, along with making their units similiar in strength to the elves.

Undead: Hmm. Possible. The undead would be tough to create. I'd guess they'd have the largest pop cap and hugest armies. There's plenty of possiblities with them, and they have tons of unique features and plenty of quest room. I like it.
They have tons of unit choices. I'd guess they'd have slow footspeed, and mostly weak infantry but very powerful spellcasters. Yeah, sounds weird, but that's how I'd make them. Also, they'd need to focus on having a vast variety of mobility, from skeletal elephants to swooping bone dragons.

Dwarves: Honestly, the most possible and likely race to be added into the game at a later time. They have tons of lore from mythology and books and the like, with plenty of room to grow. You can always get a different look at their personality and traits. Definitely a popular choice.
They should have little in the way of archers but very powerful siege equipment and countersiege, with the most powerful walls as well. Their infantry should be slow but powerful with little in the way of cavalry except maybe a giant goat-like unit.

I know there was another race, but I've forgotten it's name and simply remember it was some sort of water-based race. Very hard to implement successfully.


Magic is a slight mystery as of right now in DoF. We don't really know much about it, to my kowledge, except that mages are very powerful and players won't have exactly an army of mages backing them. So, I honestly don't know how spell-casting is planned to be implemented. But, here's how I'd like mages to be:

I'd like mages to not really be capable of casting all the spells untill they reach higher levels. For example, a fresh battalion can cast and deflect 3 basic spells right off and then can be taught (costs money) another at level 3, level 6, etc. At a special building (like a library) players can research new spells which can, in turn, be taught to mages if they get powerful enough.

I'd also like each race to have similiar and plenty of unique spells. For example, I think humans should have several ally-boosting spells whereas orcs should have spells that leave enemies fleeing in terror. Elves, on the other hand, should have a couple spells that helps their economic gains and can create territorial blockades across an enemies path (not within city limits, of course)
Besides these unique spells, they all get the typical firewall/whatever else they already have availiable for use, such as some group heals and the like.

The New World: The Underground

If I were to take a guess, I'd say the dwarves were a popular choice for a race. If I were to take another guess, I'd say most people would love to see them have an underground city/a city in a cave. So, I'd suggest that we create an entire network of linking underground tunnels from one city to another-with the other races in the process of trying to get a foothold in the dark and gloomy atmosphere of the dwarves *main* home. (Players can't create cities here for obvious balance reasons, but there would be numerous major NPC cities here. We could even throw the dragons in as well-and many players appear to love the idea of dragon races.

As for resources-the dwarven mages create artificial sunlight and hunt the strange creatures of the area. Also, wood lies in the form of trees that grow near openings to the surface, and gold is abundant. There could be plenty of PvE here in the form of a new main questline and to take the NPC cities on. There could be massive dwarven and dragon cities and a single of the other races but quite large as well- their only foothold in the new realm. Rewards could range from new mercenary units to plenty of resources to go around. It has potential to add a ton of new content to the game after release. What do you guys think?

Guilds and Alliances: Multi-player Wars and Cities
Recently, a post came up on the forums regarding guilds and multi-owned cities. I decided to work upon the idea a little and came up with a general idea of how a multi-owned city could work. The original level one city is purchased by a joint-effort from a guild with at least 10 players in it. It's very expensive (AKA only higher leveled guilds can afford to purchase it)

Basically, the city would begin larger than normal cities and be capable of much greater sizes. In fact, they can get so large they can take up two seperate instance to get everything in. Basically, it's owned by a single guild. The players in this guild agree from the start that they must pay a portion of their resources every week to keep the city maintained-a sort of "tax", if you will. This off-sets the fact that the city is constantly maintaining two armies, from which individual battalions can be purchased for discounts from players within the guild. The players within the guild also get minor discounts when purchasing resources and a minor increase in cash received when selling goods/resources. There are also various mercenary units easily purchasable from higher level cities.

Since you obviously can't do quests for the city to level up, it levels up through size increase alone, as does the max garrison of troops within. A full army defends eah instance of the city with an AI that depends on the size of the city. It grows when players send resources in, auto-creating buildings and troops. It also uses the "tax" money to purchase goodies. If the city is attacked by another player or guild, up to 2 armies can come to defend each portion/instance of the city (assuming the game can handle that much? Obviously subject to change)

Once both ends of the city have fallen, a player can advance his troops to the final area. A little smaller than the other portions of the city, it houses the keep and most of the starting military buildings. A small garrison is kept here.
At this point, if other guild members wish to defend the city they must come from the outside and fight from outside the keep through the narrow streets crowded with enemies.

I can't think of many other features other than possibly allowing the guild to keep a certain number of their own troops garrisoned permanently to defend the city, scratching any last hopes of one player taking the city down. It'd have to be a small number so that these types of battles don't lag much. The city ould obviously be AI controlled. All the bonuses I mentioned should be very slight and not affect normal PvP (two player battles) in any way at all (I'm not a huge fan of guilds, although they're fun to be a part of. I just don't want to be forced to join them or lose all my battles;) )

I'm afraid the battles might get too unit-filled or that the guild cities might be a balance tipper, although I don't think they are. Post your thoughts. :)
Credits to otomotopia for the original idea of guild cities, which triggered this idea. Nice thread!

welshie 02-11-2010 10:25 AM

Some good points put forwards!

City and Player customization -
My views would be similar about the Player one, i would like to get hold of my hero and design it like in a Rpg mode and when he levels i would like to choose what he wears and see him prosper as a Mini me, per say. Also to evlove on this idea could we not try and represent our lands with not only our cities but our lords, showing them off and putting them in an avatar when someone clicks to see our city in a sumary, 'Lord Tomas is the Lord of these lands' -> show picture that sort of thing.

As for cities, yeh customization would be cool but i find the fact that you use the walls for primarly units to fire from ultimatly out rules this, as in other games walls are just stones to slow you down. But reverie have made it so you can add your own personal flare, lets just say your human firstly you have to pick you lands. Now you have the templates of the regional type cities I.e. Next to the see, on hills, near mountians ... ect. Then you choose what type of walls u want/where u want towers to be build. Then you have the options of player based anti-seige wepons to place on them. So in overview i doubt many cities will look identical unless u plan on attacking people in the same regions and race.

Being the brain behind the idea of border towns and things, im rather flattered. But i have to say what things you have come up with are good, putting lands to fight over for stratigal improtance would there for take the pressure of people having so many forces in your city and focus the game more on these lands to help your city prosper!

I remember posting I think last year about if u can intercept an army on its way to your city and i dont think i got a definitive answer. But i would like to see what u have said border towns to help you focus your enimies into choke points making it harder for them to attack.

Forgotten races
I dont really like the idea of some of the races, i hate playing undead and would rather have them in some sort of random event in your lands, ie a necromancer kills a few guys and a plague spreads and you must kill your citizens to stop it much like what Arthas had to do in Warcraft but was then critized for doing so. Them and minators i would not like to see in the game as a playable race but this isnt my decision.

As for the dragons and dwarfs i would like to see them in a later expansion. I do not see why you would think dragons would not make a decent race to play, dragons in fantasy are normaly very intelligent and normaly very comanding. You have to remember dragons are not just big flying beasts in fantasy you have the normal Half-Dragons which are like the grunts of the dragon world and so on. Personaly i love the idea of Dragons and think they would make the game very intresting, as for the dwarfs i feel that this race would bring in a whole new way of seige and would love to experience that! But the lands should be almost dominated by mining and few of other resources.

But im glad u expressed your views!

Swift sword 02-11-2010 03:43 PM

I see your point, especially on the border towns thing. I do think there's going to be enough rewards for regular city sieges to be rampant even with something like this, though. Dragons, on the other hand...meh. I need to see a fully workable concept with creativty before anyone can sell them to me :p .
Indeed, dwarves should focus on having really good siege and pretty good defense in my opinion-a sort of balance. I see them being more defensive with little cavalry and slow movement speed, personally, but that's my take on their race as a whole. Probably biased from LotR.

Darathor 02-11-2010 05:33 PM

On the rpg elements, your soldiers can swim through rivers, it just takes stamina to do it.

I would like it if you could get a few items and armor for you hero that would give stats, the odd ability, and a change in the model to reflect you hero wearing it.

For border towns, I would like an area where you can create another castle, for a lot of resources or some other prerequisite that makes it hard to get one, that would be capturable by other players. There could even be possibilities for guild warfare in this area by having guild cities that are cheaper than player cities, but aren't under any one person's control. There would be a "lord" appointed for the city, but other members could be able to trade there and recuperate with their armies there.

Another way to implement the idea is with various capturable objectives throughout the world.

Negthareas 02-11-2010 08:58 PM

I have to go to bed, but I really like this thread and will post on it tomorrow.:D

Swift sword 02-11-2010 09:12 PM

Glad you like it thus far. I'm planning on adding in sections, such as bout magic and expanding my thoughts on the Forgotten Races. I'll also post anything else I think up here. Hope you can tell me what you think tommorow.

Negthareas 02-12-2010 08:06 AM

I just read through - very good ideas! I think the Boarderlands idea can kind of be crossed with the guild ideas - some interesting ones also popped up in the guild proposal thread.

Dragon race - I have serious doubts as to the variation of units in order to make the race playable. Dragons, Big ones, little ones. Drakes... You need a lot more than that. Also, how would cities work? There are so many things that would need to be solved in order for them to be a race that it seems, to me, impractical to pursue it.

Minotaurs - similar to Dragons in the non-development. But, more practal and easier to develop than dragons. I like the druidic idea. Maybe make their race based on minotaurs as workers, basic infantry, etc., but have their major units be very magical - wizards, sea monsters, "dinosaurs" -kindof- etc. Even maybe incorporate elements from the Dragan civilization if it does not work out. Thus you could have a lot of minotaur units [fast, strong, big damage, but expensive] but only a few big ones.

Kire 02-12-2010 08:31 AM

Nice post =),
100% agree with your city and customization stuff, beside there would be nice to have different skins for units so you could also choose that =P (whole packet, not choosing for individual type of unit) - so that at human pvp the difference is not only colour =P.
And there should be something to bring players to open battles. Maybe there would be instanced battlegrounds (so comp chooses the right opponent for you and you than fight there (similar to WoW battlegrounds)). They said borderlands as were suggested were not much possible. Maybe if battleground would be made on border (like warhammer have those faction specific battlefields). And i heard there would be also raiding of merchants on their way, but how would this happen if we wont even see other ppl?
I dont have anything against to forgotten races, but would be quite sad if dragons wouldnt be playable faction in one of the expansions =).

zach12wqasxz 02-12-2010 08:44 AM

ya i also agree with your open battle scenarios. like instead of ALWAYS attacking another city land battles would be absolutly awesome like if your fighting over a trade route. or some farmland, or even like a valley with lots of stone resources, for the mmo part to be fully complete reverie would do good to add this into the game

otomotopia 02-12-2010 11:19 AM

Walls absolutely need a much bigger degree of customization-specifically in direction and placement. I would absolutely LOVE to invent a design that no one else has, that absolutely rises above all else in terms of strategic placement. I would LOVE to completely own someone who didn't set up their walls well.

At that, having the option to use a preset or your own design would be AMAZING. I know you can place attachments to your walls, but I want to MAKE my own design... If that was a feature, it would increase my love of the game even further.

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