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SPARROW94
08-24-2007, 09:42 AM
If you played BFME2 and you had a calvery battle with a friend you would notice that the calvery stop instead of charging now that is just plain sissy instead i would wanna see in this game is wolfbeast and unicorns charging at each other and watch them stab each other off the wolfbeast/unicorns and then watch them fight with out there wolfbeast/unicorns now thats real!!

The Witch King of Angmar
08-24-2007, 10:59 AM
If you played BFME2 and you had a calvery battle with a friend you would notice that the calvery stop instead of charging now that is just plain sissy instead i would wanna see in this game is wolfbeast and unicorns charging at each other and watch them stab each other off the wolfbeast/unicorns and then watch them fight with out there wolfbeast/unicorns now thats real!!

That's probably what it will be like. I would like to see horse archers that are not completly overpowered but can ride around and fire at the same time.

SPARROW94
08-24-2007, 10:59 AM
thats prob for orcs instead on elves if you realy think about it

Ryan Zelazny
08-24-2007, 11:05 AM
I'm not sure if I understand your question Sparrow.

I think what you want to know, is that if your rider dies, will your mount still attack? The answer to that is yes, but they will only attack if they are still around other friendly units, once they are left to themselves they will become tame-able so you may capture them.

Not sure how shooting/riding will pan out, as it may be hard to do it interface-wise. Because if you just click on a target, your archer should just shoot, not run and shoot. I suppose you could have a little option (with a hotkey) and you could setup a range for them to run, kind of like a guard patrol in Warcraft.

SPARROW94
08-24-2007, 11:07 AM
saweeeet !!

olauwers
08-24-2007, 03:10 PM
I think what Sparrow wanted to ask is, do the cavalry charge at other cavalry, meet, charge further and knock the enemy of their mounts? (Jousting-style, yet more action, and alot of people at the same time... Oh, and no public ;)), or will they charge, meet, stop, fight?

Ryan Zelazny
08-24-2007, 04:09 PM
I think what Sparrow wanted to ask is, do the cavalry charge at other cavalry, meet, charge further and knock the enemy of their mounts? (Jousting-style, yet more action, and alot of people at the same time... Oh, and no public ;)), or will they charge, meet, stop, fight?

I'm actually not sure (mounted units aren't yet perfected in the current build) so I'll leave that up to Konstantin to answer. It would be a good idea to have sort a charge ability for melee mounted units only, as ranged units would just get slaughtered that close to melee units. Sometimes you would want them to stop and fight though, perhaps run through the first part of the enemy ranks to get to a spell-caster or just to cause mass confusion upon your enemy.

SPARROW94
08-24-2007, 08:54 PM
I'm actually not sure (mounted units aren't yet perfected in the current build) so I'll leave that up to Konstantin to answer. It would be a good idea to have sort a charge ability for melee mounted units only, as ranged units would just get slaughtered that close to melee units. Sometimes you would want them to stop and fight though, perhaps run through the first part of the enemy ranks to get to a spell-caster or just to cause mass confusion upon your enemy. kewl this game is so saweeeeet

crex719
08-24-2007, 10:54 PM
The Calvalry in BFME 2 seemed over powered, there were way to many units it could crush and pikemen only worked if you knew how to use them. I hate comparing this to BFME 2, but this is where my RTS experience came from..
Are Calvalry this powerful in this game too?

SPARROW94
08-24-2007, 11:56 PM
i bet if you use them right

Darvin
08-27-2007, 11:11 PM
The problem with BFME was that cavalry (in general) had by far the best stats of any unit type, and infantry had by far the worst stats. If you got an "infantry weak" faction like elves against a "cavalry strong" faction like men, there was simply no counter available. If you look at a faction with decent infantry - the dwarves - people weren't so stupid as to throw cavalry in a direct charge against those tough guardians. This shows that the issue was with other units being too weak in general, not cavalry being too strong. I hope we see a nice balance in unit types in this game so that doesn't happen.

The Witch King of Angmar
08-28-2007, 11:27 AM
The problem with BFME was that cavalry (in general) had by far the best stats of any unit type, and infantry had by far the worst stats. If you got an "infantry weak" faction like elves against a "cavalry strong" faction like men, there was simply no counter available. If you look at a faction with decent infantry - the dwarves - people weren't so stupid as to throw cavalry in a direct charge against those tough guardians. This shows that the issue was with other units being too weak in general, not cavalry being too strong. I hope we see a nice balance in unit types in this game so that doesn't happen.

Hey but that's what pikes are for. :D But yeah at times they were overpowering.

SPARROW94
08-28-2007, 06:01 PM
like that goddamn humans pike were weak...but they sure looked kewl

The Witch King of Angmar
08-29-2007, 06:10 PM
like that goddamn humans pike were weak...but they sure looked kewl

I liked the Uruk pikemen. They own. :D

SPARROW94
08-30-2007, 01:32 AM
yes yes yes we all know that>>>

Darvin
08-30-2007, 11:49 AM
Well, hopefully in this game faction differences are not about a hierarchy in units. I like games where each faction's unit types have different advantages and disadvantages; one faction might have tougher pikes, whereas another might have faster pikes. No one has the "best" units, but in any given situation they could still be very effective.

The Witch King of Angmar
08-30-2007, 03:14 PM
Well, hopefully in this game faction differences are not about a hierarchy in units. I like games where each faction's unit types have different advantages and disadvantages; one faction might have tougher pikes, whereas another might have faster pikes. No one has the "best" units, but in any given situation they could still be very effective.

I'd say if you are good with those units and had alot of them they would be the best at that time point in the game.

ShadowyMoon
10-02-2007, 07:32 PM
I'd like to see cavalry like the RTW one. It didn't have the best stats and was very vurnable to spearmen but the charge attacks of heavy cavalry were devastating and light cavalry had superb mobility.

Puppeteer
10-03-2007, 01:20 PM
What I never understood was if pikemen were facing the wrong way, why would cavalry still receive tons of damage from charging them? What I'd like to see would have pikemen slaughter cavalry IF facing the right direction, to the side minimal damage and rear-facing no damage.
yeah I liked Uruk Pikemen too :)

ShadowyMoon
10-03-2007, 01:39 PM
That's how it worked in RTW. If you caught pikes unaware with cavalry you could still slaughter them.

SPARROW94
10-03-2007, 01:49 PM
What I never understood was if pikemen were facing the wrong way, why would cavalry still receive tons of damage from charging them? What I'd like to see would have pikemen slaughter cavalry IF facing the right direction, to the side minimal damage and rear-facing no damage.
yeah I liked Uruk Pikemen too :)

that happend to me so much its not funny...Yeah and i think the most expensive unit should be calvary

The Witch King of Angmar
10-03-2007, 03:44 PM
that happend to me so much its not funny...Yeah and i think the most expensive unit should be calvary

Lol I loved that as an Isengard player. :)

ShadowyMoon
10-03-2007, 04:26 PM
Will someone please fix the name of the thread? It's been bugging me for quite a while. It's Cavalry...

SPARROW94
10-03-2007, 05:57 PM
well sorry...its sparrow lang. REMEMBER

The Witch King of Angmar
10-03-2007, 06:24 PM
Will someone please fix the name of the thread? It's been bugging me for quite a while. It's Cavalry...

Yeah I know. I normally use regular grammer/spelling on forums but online I pull a Sparrow.

SPARROW94
10-03-2007, 07:20 PM
lol because every body loves me

Puppeteer
10-04-2007, 12:40 PM
suuuuree....
Anyway, in stronghold you had to build a stable to get horses, so then you could get cavalry. Maybe cavalry should be expensive, unless you heard some wild ones from around the map to your stable, so the next few are as cheap as swordsmen :D

ShadowyMoon
10-04-2007, 01:21 PM
Good idea Puppeteer. Horses as semi resource. I like it.

Ryan Zelazny
10-04-2007, 02:58 PM
You do require a stable to get horses. Cavalry is created by getting a horse and then mounting any unit you'd like on it.

SPARROW94
10-04-2007, 03:05 PM
i told my friends that and they like spazzed man

The Witch King of Angmar
10-04-2007, 05:11 PM
You do require a stable to get horses. Cavalry is created by getting a horse and then mounting any unit you'd like on it.

Do you bring the horses to the stable or do the horses get created from the stable?

Thanks

ShadowyMoon
10-04-2007, 05:40 PM
The horses will probably be created by the stable.

SPARROW94
10-04-2007, 06:08 PM
after i build my wolfbeast ill put goblin archers on them and haunt an royal dragon

ShadowyMoon
10-04-2007, 06:52 PM
I think than you'd end up with roasted goblins on a wolf :D

Puppeteer
10-06-2007, 01:43 PM
Yummy Roasted Goblin :)
Horses were created in the stable in Stronghold.

The Witch King of Angmar
10-06-2007, 02:38 PM
I think than you'd end up with roasted goblins on a wolf :D

Yeah my Royal Dragon would pwn you.

SPARROW94
10-10-2007, 05:19 PM
ROFL mass of goblin archers/wolvs

The Witch King of Angmar
10-10-2007, 05:47 PM
ROFL mass of goblin archers/wolvs

If they had fire arrows they'd have a chance.

ShadowyMoon
10-10-2007, 11:08 PM
Unless it's a red royal dragon.

Puppeteer
10-11-2007, 12:48 PM
Water arrows!

The Witch King of Angmar
10-11-2007, 02:27 PM
Water arrows!

I'd say ice would be more effective and also, I think a black Royal Dragon would be the baddest of them all.

Puppeteer
10-11-2007, 03:32 PM
yeah but EA did ice and I suppose Dawn of Fantasy want to stay as far away from that as possible :D

The Witch King of Angmar
10-11-2007, 05:12 PM
yeah but EA did ice and I suppose Dawn of Fantasy want to stay as far away from that as possible :D

If it's done right it would be cool. EA just ruins everything.

SPARROW94
10-30-2007, 05:55 PM
exept command and conquer

The Witch King of Angmar
10-31-2007, 10:05 AM
exept command and conquer

Give it time Sparrow and they will find a way to ruin that too.

SvN
10-31-2007, 11:42 AM
they have done that already with all those damn patches..

but stay on topic.

Joseph Visscher
11-02-2007, 10:16 PM
If they had fire arrows they'd have a chance.

Stupid goblins making fire? okay. I think they'll need some help of the orc leaders.

after i build my wolfbeast ill put goblin archers on them and haunt an royal dragon

Good, dragons need a quick snack before burning your entire kingdom of orcs.

Water arrows!
yeah but EA did ice and I suppose Dawn of Fantasy want to stay as far away from that as possible :D

lol hahah, i doutb we'll have 'water arrows'

exept command and conquer
Give it time Sparrow and they will find a way to ruin that too.
they have done that already with all those damn patches.. but stay on topic.

They already did ruin cnc3 massivly, look at the newest patch, nod avatars kill mamoth tanks and or tripods 1v1 easily, nod is the most overpowered faction by far completely.


BACK TO THE TOPIC! I'll delete any more posts here that dont greatly add depth to this thread. 'Cavalry Actions'

The Witch King of Angmar
11-03-2007, 08:54 AM
Ummmmmm.............. will you be able to get faster horses for your cavalry?

Ryan Zelazny
11-03-2007, 11:27 AM
Mounts will level up like all other units.

Puppeteer
11-03-2007, 12:26 PM
What would be nice is some cavalry animations where if killed by pikemen the horse collapses and the rider gets thrown off... or crushed under horse :D

The Witch King of Angmar
11-03-2007, 03:59 PM
The post that was previously here is delete.

Ryan Zelazny
11-03-2007, 04:11 PM
The mounts will be able to die without the riding dying and vice versa. We will have a few different animations for that, so you may see that.

The Witch King of Angmar
11-03-2007, 07:22 PM
The mounts will be able to die without the riding dying and vice versa. We will have a few different animations for that, so you may see that.

How would they die without riding if they are mounts?

Kostia Kaploon
11-06-2007, 06:25 AM
How would they die without riding if they are mounts?

He ment that if for example you have an orc riding a beast (just an example):

The orc can die while the beast survives
AND
The beast can die while the orc survives.

The Witch King of Angmar
11-06-2007, 10:30 AM
He ment that if for example you have an orc riding a beast (just an example):

The orc can die while the beast survives
AND
The beast can die while the orc survives.

Ok that's what I thought.

ash12181987
02-03-2008, 04:32 PM
My question is, are the advantages of the infantry are mounted furthered by their mounts?

For instance: do a pikeman with advantages vs. horseman, get an increased advantage, do they get a less of an advantage, do the just get the advantage of moving faster because their on a horse, What will happen?

Further, will there be special achievable formations with horseman, or will there just be the same formations?

The Witch King of Angmar
02-03-2008, 07:36 PM
Maybe. I'm not completely sure though.

Robert Schultz
04-08-2008, 03:38 PM
Further, will there be special achievable formations with horseman, or will there just be the same formations?
Cavalry formations? There aren't many, the one that comees to mind is the wedge. Maybe add a tight formation, so instead of spreading out while riding the horses would stay in a condensed line thus giving a better charge attack.

Sauron_9Gods9_Ldr
04-08-2008, 05:01 PM
Heres my big question after a unit dies on the horse can you reuse that horse for other unit so exscample

my goblin archer dies i send it back to base this time its a goblin spearmen would i beable to do that or when you mout a unit on the horse/beast will that horse if the first unit dies does it haft to be another archer again or spearmen? this is very confusing :/

frankein_fish
04-09-2008, 07:55 AM
Probably not. (Making it as short as posibly since i gotta pay a visit to the bathroom) :p

welshie
04-09-2008, 09:04 AM
If you have lots of cavalry attacking in a tight formation and one of the front horses die does this effect the ones behind it like they would fall over the horse infront or do they just run around them? also if the humonide on top of the horse survives will he then die due to getting trampled on by the hrses behind (unlesss he's realy lucky.)?

frankein_fish
04-09-2008, 10:07 AM
That will probably be a bit too complicated but u never know ;)

Puppeteer
04-10-2008, 11:59 AM
Whilst realistic, it would make cavalry severly weaker in trampling

The Witch King of Angmar
04-11-2008, 04:45 PM
That's why it'd be even more risky to trample such units as pikes. I think it might be a good addition letting people with calvalry not always think they own the map.

Robert Schultz
04-11-2008, 11:03 PM
In BFME what i really hated about cavalry was that they only functioned in two ways:
A) They either ran into pike men and got massacred
Or
B) They run into swordsmen and archers and absolutey destroy them.

The countering was way to extreme.:(

Puppeteer
04-12-2008, 05:49 AM
too much of a rock-paper-scissors concept there, but DoF won't be anything like that.
what I hated on (some-what)-older games, no matter where cavalry charged the pikemen they would receive the same damage....

The Witch King of Angmar
04-12-2008, 01:21 PM
Like in AoE.

Joseph Visscher
04-13-2008, 11:17 AM
Thats how it was like against pikemen, and even well trained swordsmen will know to slash the legs off the horse and make the rider go flying, some of them got owned. Cavalry where mostly just used to break the front line and lead the foot soldiers, trample through poeple and kill fleeing enemies, and most of all charge and kill archers.
Having like 50 horsemen galloping at you fill speed, no matter the army that is in its way, it will invoke lots of fear on alot of the men. that why in most mid evil wars they put the most experienced men at the very front to stand up and keep the ranks from spliting apart from fear and fleeing. wether it be heavily armed cavalry, or a volley of enemy arrows.

The Witch King of Angmar
04-13-2008, 12:35 PM
Would you implement this strategy in the game?

LordSlayer
04-18-2008, 06:59 PM
That would be fun, letting your ennemy charge you thinking you'll flee and then suddenly he realises your little swordsman is max level :eek: and starts hacking appart your charge.:D

Diggz
04-27-2008, 11:36 AM
If cavalry engage eachother, will they ride through eachothers ranks, stabbing and slashing at eachother or will they simply stop, turn around, and poke eachother?

And, if faced with pikemen, will the cavalry leap into combat? It was a medieval suicide tactic that was extremely feasible when presented with a row of spears. The theory was that the mass of the horse and rider all armored would crush the spears and those it landed upon.

It worked.. well.

Which brings me to another question, are you restricted to just a plain mount or can you put a bridle and armor plates on it to give you an armored war-wolf?

I cant get the image of a contingent of elven archers on armored unicorns firing volley after volley into the mass of an oncoming army.

The Witch King of Angmar
04-27-2008, 01:46 PM
I think the horsemen will attack as they move past. Also, orcs will get wolfs of some type.

SPARROW94
05-15-2008, 11:21 PM
Orcs Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy