PDA

View Full Version : The persistent world...


LiTos456
09-12-2009, 10:49 PM
Drum roll everyone, litos is making a thread!
Alright you devs, you got some talkin' to do.
And if you won't talk, pray that you ever will again!
Anyway, I wanted to ask about how exactly you travel from place to place, what the rest of the world in the game is for and how do you get in these player areas. So far we are assuming there's a large world separated by loading screens, and then there's a separate map for each player. How do you explain this?
Also loading screens could get bloody annoying sometimes... Is there gonna be quick travel or something?

sneaky_squirrel
09-12-2009, 11:28 PM
Interesting question, I have another oen up my sleeve ;p.

How often do you plan on making important world events take place?

MrBlack103
09-13-2009, 03:20 AM
And another one :p :

If so, what kind of events would they be?

I would like to see random invasions of massive NPC armies in a given region, or even target a specific guild?

Jean=A=Luc
09-13-2009, 03:49 AM
You click on a place you want to go to, move across the "world map" and when you arrive the area loads and voilla!

Darathor
09-13-2009, 07:20 AM
For Litos, you walk.

For the events, big stuff happens like suddenly a giant rebellion has taken place in almost every human town or something and they must fight off the rebels before they take over.

Konstantin Fomenko
09-13-2009, 09:05 AM
...how exactly you travel from place to place, what the rest of the world in the game is for and how do you get in these player areas. So far we are assuming there's a large world separated by loading screens, and then there's a separate map for each player. How do you explain this?
Not quite. Think Total War games. You move armies and select cities on the World Map. But unlike Total War, where player only gets into RTS view during the battle, in DoF player can at any time see his Army/Town in RTS view (be it in some forest, desert or a town). And when it comes to managing the town, or army - again please can only do this in RTS view.

And yes there are load screens, but right now in the not-so-optimized engine you are looking at 8 to 15 seconds long load-time. We`ll try to push this down to 4-5 seconds.

How often do you plan on making important world events take place?
There are lots of World events - but we are unleashing them as players progress through the quests, instead of a specific date. Example of world events: civil war in human realm, orcs vs humans war, elves vs orcs war e.t.c

LiTos456
09-13-2009, 09:17 AM
I still don't get it. I've never played total war games. Can you explain more please? Do you mean you can walk your army around using the world map, and then jump into RTS view whenever you want and you'll be put there where you walked your army on the RTS map?

Damn that was a long sentence.

sneaky_squirrel
09-13-2009, 09:30 AM
Like how the evnts take place ;p.

Konstantin Fomenko
09-13-2009, 10:49 AM
U got it Litos!

Like how the events take place ;p.
Well, lets say war between Humans and Orcs is declared. Player recieves a quest to visit the capital city where the war is explained and announced through a cinematic.

Human and Orcish players can now attack each other (before they couldn`t do this on a large scale)

Player would also be given several Player vs Player quests to move forward the story of this war. One of these quests can involve creating an alliance and going after one of large enemy NPC towns.

Josh Warner
09-13-2009, 12:05 PM
Not quite. Think Total War games. You move armies and select cities on the World Map. But unlike Total War, where player only gets into RTS view during the battle, in DoF player can at any time see his Army/Town in RTS view (be it in some forest, desert or a town). And when it comes to managing the town, or army - again please can only do this in RTS view.

And yes there are load screens, but right now in the not-so-optimized engine you are looking at 8 to 15 seconds long load-time. We`ll try to push this down to 4-5 seconds.


That sounds great, I really liked the way Total War handled it, and this sounds even better, also 5 seconds would be more than awesome, 8-10 is more than acceptable though.

There are lots of World events - but we are unleashing them as players progress through the quests, instead of a specific date. Example of world events: civil war in human realm, orcs vs humans war, elves vs orcs war e.t.c

Quests as in, one player gets so far in the quest line? Or so many people complete quests, like to start a war vs humans as orcs, there would be a bunch of regular quests to kill/fight humans and such, do enough of them and you start a real war?

And as far as continuing it "Player would also be given several Player vs Player quests to move forward the story of this war. One of these quests can involve creating an alliance and going after one of large enemy NPC towns." is it whichever side completes a 'final' quest to decide the winner of the war, or some sort of slider based on the number of successful quests completed by either side and first to reach a certain point wins?

Darathor
09-13-2009, 12:09 PM
I think it will work like the latter thing you said Haeso, or once you complete a quest, you go into open war with a certain race, along with everyone else who has done the quest.

Joseph Visscher
09-13-2009, 03:31 PM
Let me add to this aswell, Your home city is able to create several armies, each army can add or disband any of your units within other armies or homecity, transfer resources back and forth between armies and your homecity.

Armies can travel around the (2d) world map and pitch camps ( takes some resources depending on the size of the camp you decide to make.) and then/or view the army where its located in the world map at anytime. Other players or NPC creeps may then attempt to raid your camp or what not, alot of things can happen including hiring new mercenaries that are home to that region (different regions have different mercenaries to hire.)

Your army is able to travel around and visit major cities such as Dagbor, a massive human city that has a large river canal designed right through it.

You receive some special quests from large AI cities such as Dagbor later on at a higher level. Or attack some of these large NPC strongholds to complete unique quests.

You might be able to visit your allies' Homecities' even. (completely unconfirmed) (I would not want my ally to come and steal my goldmines or cut down my forests,,,)

Or just attack enemy strongholds and or raid their nearby camps for loot.

sneaky_squirrel
09-13-2009, 03:46 PM
Cool, but hows about if you could toggle which allies you would like to let visit your homecity, might be worth it or not, your choice ;p.

Also, will we be able to trade things like armor, potions etc for gold and such, or is it purely the exchange of the 4 basic resources?

Darathor
09-13-2009, 03:55 PM
I know that you will(at least sort of) be able to trade units, in a sense. Someone could pay you some money and you use a certain amount of units to help and protect the buyer in his various endeavors.

LiTos456
09-13-2009, 08:29 PM
Wow, that's awesome.
*posts at dofsource*

Kire
09-14-2009, 03:57 AM
You might be able to visit your allies' Homecities' even. (completely unconfirmed) (I would not want my ally to come and steal my goldmines or cut down my forests,,,)


Thats what make you decide whose your really ally and whose not =) (ally would not do that).

Josh Warner
09-14-2009, 04:46 AM
Thats what make you decide whose your really ally and whose not =) (ally would not do that).

I'd totally strip mine and deforest an allies land, what're friends for if not mooching off of them! ;)

raving
09-14-2009, 07:23 AM
U got it Litos!


Well, lets say war between Humans and Orcs is declared. Player recieves a quest to visit the capital city where the war is explained and announced through a cinematic.

Human and Orcish players can now attack each other (before they couldn`t do this on a large scale)

Player would also be given several Player vs Player quests to move forward the story of this war. One of these quests can involve creating an alliance and going after one of large enemy NPC towns.
oh man that sounds freaking awsome

Ziegler
09-14-2009, 11:13 AM
That didnt answer how the story progresses though.
Is it a single player quest, or does it take faction points to complete the quest (X amount of completions by the faction of that scenario to advance the plot)

Will we be able to conquer and take control of the NPC cities?


Game sounds interesting from a first glance, will be reading up on it more.

And scenario designers...if only it hadnt been 5+ years.

Konstantin Fomenko
09-14-2009, 11:20 AM
Progression in the story is per player. As far as global story progression we can`t comment on that yet.

wills370
09-14-2009, 12:39 PM
You might be able to visit your allies' Homecities' even. (completely unconfirmed) (I would not want my ally to come and steal my goldmines or cut down my forests,,,)

Or just attack enemy strongholds and or raid their nearby camps for loot.

That sounds awsome one way t get around that is you are only allowed to send a emisary with a small escort to your allies city. that way you dont run the risk of being looted.

, or if they ask for assistance then you are allowed to send your troops in. But the buildings and rescources are protected

by which time if you wish to attack them. An official decleration of war is needed. And your army must retreat to a set distance before enableing to lay siege.

Kire
09-14-2009, 03:26 PM
An official decleration of war is needed. And your army must retreat to a set distance before enableing to lay siege.

That would be so unrealistic =P, as i said it is good to be 100% sure before making true allys =). Anyway trust is not easy to get ... if you thing otherwise you are punished =).

....anyway it would not be suspicious if a x ally send all his army to you for no reason =P.

Darathor
09-14-2009, 03:51 PM
That didn't answer how the story progresses though.
Is it a single player quest, or does it take faction points to complete the quest (X amount of completions by the faction of that scenario to advance the plot)

Will we be able to conquer and take control of the NPC cities?
I don't think you will be able to control them for long at all, but you can probably just attack them(I don't know whether you declare war or something).

As Konstantin Fomenko said earlier, it's per player, so you and everyone else who has done the quest will be have the after effects of it. So you might be at open war against another race or something.

Ironic
09-16-2009, 01:11 AM
i was wondering how they were going to implement this kind of thing
sounds awsome :cool:

The Witch King of Angmar
09-16-2009, 08:42 AM
As mentioned before with journeying to these capital cities, aside from getting updated on quests, what else can you go there for? Can you get resources? Do these cities ever get attacked (do you and other players journey there to defend it)? Or are these cities just NPC and will always be there?

Thanks

Darathor
09-16-2009, 11:25 AM
I'm pretty sure that they said somewhere that you can defend an npc city from other people's attacks. You can go to a capital city(or any npc city I think) and trade resources with other players.

Josh Warner
09-16-2009, 11:27 AM
I'm pretty sure that they said somewhere that you can defend an npc city from other people's attacks. You can go to a capital city(or any npc city I think) and trade resources with other players.

I believe I recall them mentioning that there would be multiple instances of each city to allow for more than one battle at a time, so I have to wonder how you would join the attack/defense. A set time limit where people can join from either side, or could you arrive mid battle as a reinforcement?

Darathor
09-16-2009, 11:29 AM
Also, I would say that an npc city would respawn immediately after attacking/destroying/defending the city, though you can't just attack it again, you have to wait for a while.

Josh Warner
09-16-2009, 11:30 AM
Also, I would say that an npc city would respawn immediately after attacking/destroying/defending the city, though you can't just attack it again, you have to wait for a while.

Again, I don't think anything changes since there are supposed to be instances of each city. I could be wrong but I could've sworn I saw one of the devs mention it since they think it would be a popular feature - attacking the NPC cities that in order for everyone to be able to do it they'd have to use instances.

Darathor
09-16-2009, 01:24 PM
Well of course it would be instanced, if it wasn't then it would be nearly impossible to attack an npc city because everyone would be trying to assault it. It would probably turn into a giant killfest with everyone fighting each other to get attack the npc city first.

Josh Warner
09-16-2009, 01:32 PM
Well of course it would be instanced, if it wasn't then it would be nearly impossible to attack an npc city because everyone would be trying to assault it. It would probably turn into a giant killfest with everyone fighting each other to get attack the npc city first.

There will be several instances at the exact same time though, so I don't understand what you were saying... It wouldn't ever be destroyed or need to respawn.

As far as having to wait a while, maybe for individuals you shouldn't be able to attack it over and over, but everyone else due to instancing would have to be able to.

wills370
09-16-2009, 04:40 PM
Will you be able to track enemy armies on yoru map then? As wont that take the element of ambushes out the game?

And i beleive they will limit the NPC city's as having a set amount of defenders /attacks which can be entered at a certian time. And then another player can join as one players forces are either wiped out or withdrawn.

Would make sence to run that style of battle and although unrealistic would let you run battles 24 hours a day even as people go offline etc.

Darathor
09-16-2009, 05:34 PM
There will be several instances at the exact same time though, so I don't understand what you were saying... It wouldn't ever be destroyed or need to respawn.

As far as having to wait a while, maybe for individuals you shouldn't be able to attack it over and over, but everyone else due to instancing would have to be able to.

I said what your last sentence says, and I was agreeing with you that it should be instanced, or else bad things happen. And I was talking about how the same player shouldn't be able to repeatedly attack the same npc city for tons of money.

Josh Warner
09-16-2009, 06:51 PM
I said what your last sentence says, and I was agreeing with you that it should be instanced, or else bad things happen. And I was talking about how the same player shouldn't be able to repeatedly attack the same npc city for tons of money.

My apologies, like I said it wasn't clear to me what you were saying. As far as not being able to keep attacking a city over and over that makes me wonder how fast you can travel on the world map if you could just go around from city to city sacking each NPC city making a circuit, by the time you finished the 15th, the first is attackable again :p

wills370
09-17-2009, 02:41 AM
As far as not being able to keep attacking a city over and over that makes me wonder how fast you can travel on the world map if you could just go around from city to city sacking each NPC city making a circuit, by the time you finished the 15th, the first is attackable again :p

Hmm the thought crossed my mind also. Although i did see something i beleive it might be in the multimedia thread. havent got time to search for it now. About selecting playervs player or against npc option and it finds a match instantly and you are besieging them. (highly unrealistic), but the developer said it was to give a player action straight away instead of searching for it. Not sure if that is for a diffrent section of the game though possibly the skirmish section etc.


And takes an army about 1.5 minutes a field if i remember saw that in there too.

Josh Warner
09-17-2009, 02:43 AM
Hmm the thought crossed my mind also. Although i did see something i beleive it might be in the multimedia thread. havent got time to search for it now. About selecting playervs player or against npc option and it finds a match instantly and you are besieging them. (highly unrealistic), but the developer said it was to give a player action straight away instead of searching for it. Not sure if that is for a diffrent section of the game though possibly the skirmish section etc.


And takes an army about 1.5 minutes a field if i remember saw that in there too.

World map movement speed is totally different than RTS.

wills370
09-17-2009, 02:48 AM
World map movement speed is totally different than RTS.

I thought the world map was build up of mulitple fields?

Josh Warner
09-17-2009, 03:04 AM
I thought the world map was build up of mulitple fields?

Not quite like that, little hard for me to explain I just woke up.

wills370
09-17-2009, 06:07 AM
Not quite like that, little hard for me to explain I just woke up.

Lol fair enough. Im guessing it would be like Total war then? Where you have little maps where battles take place etc??? which would be the 1.5 mintues.

And then you have the world map that covers greater distances in less time?

Badly explained but if you have played total war then you would know what i mean i guess. And if you havent played it i recommend it :)

Josh Warner
09-17-2009, 06:58 AM
Lol fair enough. Im guessing it would be like Total war then? Where you have little maps where battles take place etc??? which would be the 1.5 mintues.

And then you have the world map that covers greater distances in less time?

Badly explained but if you have played total war then you would know what i mean i guess. And if you havent played it i recommend it :)

Yes that's exactly how it seems to work, and I've played every Total war game.

Ironic
09-18-2009, 02:10 AM
Yes that's exactly how it seems to work, and I've played every Total war game.

If its anything like the total war system i will be one very happy man

I always wanted to play the total war campaign games in mp but they never did ( to my knowledge ):(

Josh Warner
09-18-2009, 03:26 AM
If its anything like the total war system i will be one very happy man

I always wanted to play the total war campaign games in mp but they never did ( to my knowledge ):(

There actually is a way to do just that, over email. It's a hell of a lot of fun. I spent a couple hundred hours playing like that with a friend over a few campaigns, did several at once and we'd just email the save back at the end of the day at the latest, or sometimes go through a ton of moves in one day if we both wanted.

Ironic
09-19-2009, 01:41 AM
There actually is a way to do just that, over email. It's a hell of a lot of fun. I spent a couple hundred hours playing like that with a friend over a few campaigns, did several at once and we'd just email the save back at the end of the day at the latest, or sometimes go through a ton of moves in one day if we both wanted.

haha sounds like an uber long game of phone chess
funno if i could stick it out at that kind of pace

wills370
09-21-2009, 02:52 AM
haha sounds like an uber long game of phone chess
funno if i could stick it out at that kind of pace

lol how did the battle work knowing who won and who loss?

Or did you just input the troop numbers and levels into a online battle and battle it out there?

Josh Warner
09-21-2009, 06:49 AM
lol how did the battle work knowing who won and who loss?

Or did you just input the troop numbers and levels into a online battle and battle it out there?

Auto resolved battles between each other so it'd be fair.

wills370
09-21-2009, 07:28 AM
Auto resolved battles between each other so it'd be fair.

Hmm fair enough :) good times. dont think id be able to stick it out.

stinkylover
09-24-2009, 09:42 PM
so i was just wondering ,,, how do we attack other players, do we have to walk up to their citys? someone said there was a auto match system but doesn't that fly in the face of a persistent world?
if it is a auto match system how is this not just a glorified skirmish mode.. not trying to pick a fight just wanting to know

wills370
09-25-2009, 10:01 AM
so i was just wondering ,,, how do we attack other players, do we have to walk up to their citys? someone said there was a auto match system but doesn't that fly in the face of a persistent world?
if it is a auto match system how is this not just a glorified skirmish mode.. not trying to pick a fight just wanting to know

The persistant world is in respect that everyone around you will progress etc constantly. Whereas in light of the auto match system this is to prevent very slow gameplay you will have a list of options to my understanding when you attack a player and will result in instant actions. Although i beleive therewill be other ways to engage players such as caravans. etc

bogdan1281
10-07-2009, 09:34 AM
Additional to this large NPC towns will there be also vilages?

for ex: in your home town region could be several vilages that are independent at first. By completing various quests you can conquer them and as reward you can get some daily/monthly tribute - resources &/ units.

In the old times it was normal for tributary states to support with resources or soldiers the conquering state.

It would be nice to see that during a siege/raid (when you attack) a company of soldiers from this villages comes to your aid (you can decide to control them or not). OR during a siege (defence) to be betraied by a company of this tributary vilages if you were to harsh on them before.

This could enhance the single player experience.

Thx,

Supreme
10-07-2009, 01:37 PM
Also: considering you can go to the total-war view instead of RTS-view.

Are there ambushes and how will you be able to set up your troops to deal with an ambus do they walk the way you set them? What if theres a bridge and you get ambushed there? (im already presuming you'l get a message when your troops are under attack).

These are just side-issue's but im curious none the less :p

Darathor
10-07-2009, 05:24 PM
You would get a message before the enemy attacked you, and you would have the option to pay them or fight them. I don't think that there will be ambushes where it's a total surprise like that, they will know you are there because they had to accept to fight you.

wills370
10-08-2009, 02:08 AM
You would get a message before the enemy attacked you, and you would have the option to pay them or fight them. I don't think that there will be ambushes where it's a total surprise like that, they will know you are there because they had to accept to fight you.

hmm true i beleive if you attack someone as an ambush than you will prob get a bonus/have them not be organised whe you do attack.

sneaky_squirrel
10-10-2009, 10:50 PM
Lets keep discussion going ;p.

Can you give us any information as in if there will be navies in this game, and maybe possibly even island?

This would be very good to include island quests (a Getting shipwrecked quest and getting help from local clans), or maybe even an explore the island quest for certain abandoned treasure.

szebus
10-11-2009, 04:34 AM
Some pictures show ships battling, but islands? have to take a closer look to the world map.

wills370
10-11-2009, 10:10 AM
Some pictures show ships battling, but islands? have to take a closer look to the world map.

probably would involve taking your armies to the sea. (it has to be possible with the archer fire aboard the ships). So you can invade by sea also?

PirateofCheem
10-17-2009, 08:21 PM
Ive got some more questions regarding the mmo.

What would happen if you had a totally dominant force, like pop max of elves invading a massive city that contained say [high to max number] orcs, would there be a system implemented where there forces were scaled up to match or even provide a big challenge (never down scaled though) so that a player wouldn't take this dominant force in order to just defeat all cities easily?

How would the cities work? I mean, if theres a massive amount of players playing in the mmo, would cities overlap if you know what I mean, or would there be different worlds (like server things) to compensate for this?

What would happen if you had just been invaded by a player and you managed to win, then straight away another player came and destroyed you completely? Would there be a system to stop this?

Do you start from a small village and then eventually become a large city?

Last question: What if you lose a battle defending your city? Will you have to start again in a different area? How will it work?

Ive read the whole thread to make sure these questions havnt been posted, but im sorry if these questions have been asked elsewhere. Cheers.

sneaky_squirrel
10-17-2009, 08:54 PM
Cities are indeed in instances and will not change if you conquer them, from what I heard you just get a reward.

Supreme
10-18-2009, 01:22 AM
What would happen if you had just been invaded by a player and you managed to win, then straight away another player came and destroyed you completely? Would there be a system to stop this?

This is my concern too, the time you cant be attacked is 20 minutes, but will this be enough to at least get to the old level?

Josh Warner
10-18-2009, 02:03 AM
How would the cities work? I mean, if theres a massive amount of players playing in the mmo, would cities overlap if you know what I mean, or would there be different worlds (like server things) to compensate for this?


Cities are instanced so you can have several players in the same area on the world map. No other way to do it for a game with scale like this.

What would happen if you had just been invaded by a player and you managed to win, then straight away another player came and destroyed you completely? Would there be a system to stop this?

Keep in mind buildings are not destroyed, walls/towers etc maybe, but your regular buildings will not be. They will be reduced to 0/1 health and stop working until you repair them.

Do you start from a small village and then eventually become a large city?

http://www.reverieworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1023

Check the media section and look at the 'mmo' threads for your respective race, that link above is to the human MMO. Third screenshot shows what you start with for humans, over time you'll be able to grow this into a much larger city with two sets of large stone walls surrounding your city and plenty of houses/barracks/research buildings etc.

Last question: What if you lose a battle defending your city? Will you have to start again in a different area? How will it work?


See above, your city isn't 'destroyed' zeroed buildings will become inoperable, as for other sorts of penalties and such for losing as the defender - nothing is finalized, and I can't tell you any current plans as an intern, only allowed to point you in the right direction for already available information.

I really think if you're interested in the game you should check out the three 'mmo' threads, one for each race in the media section of the forums, they contain lots of good information.

Darathor
10-18-2009, 12:30 PM
Ive got some more questions regarding the mmo.

What would happen if you had a totally dominant force, like pop max of elves invading a massive city that contained say [high to max number] orcs, would there be a system implemented where there forces were scaled up to match or even provide a big challenge (never down scaled though) so that a player wouldn't take this dominant force in order to just defeat all cities easily?


You can't attack a much weaker force than yours, but you can attack someone who is higher than you.

wills370
10-19-2009, 02:47 AM
You can't attack a much weaker force than yours, but you can attack someone who is higher than you.

sounds fair. Either they will make mince meet or you can make a nice healthy loot from it. (wouldent reccomend going for peoples castles however if your that muc lower a level:P)

darkheart
12-25-2010, 06:43 PM
hopefully the events are progressive in nature and gives a chance for the lower levels to pull out before they lose time and resources

ceronor298
01-20-2011, 06:00 AM
It will be interesting to see how it turns out thats fore sure.

Webi
01-20-2011, 10:44 AM
Well if you can attack the higher level of enemy it should at least tell you that something like in Heroes of M&M where there was sign what the difficulty was.

dverity
01-20-2011, 12:00 PM
I am sure there will be a way to tell and and people will learn the lesson quick if they push the limits.

Jolleyboy
01-20-2011, 11:54 PM
A question...

Since this is a persistent world... how much of a gap in power will there be between those starting off, and those who have been playing since near the beginning? Are we going to see a large power gap, like that in Eve Online?

I hope that it is significant enough to reward those who have played for a long time, but not so harsh that 2 or 3 new people couldn't team up and take on someone who has been on for quite some time.

skyhouse71
01-21-2011, 11:33 AM
I just hope that if you spend a lot of time building things up and then go on vaction that you dont come back to a destroyed city.

LiTos456
01-21-2011, 01:21 PM
A question...

Since this is a persistent world... how much of a gap in power will there be between those starting off, and those who have been playing since near the beginning? Are we going to see a large power gap, like that in Eve Online?

I hope that it is significant enough to reward those who have played for a long time, but not so harsh that 2 or 3 new people couldn't team up and take on someone who has been on for quite some time.

There will be a power gap but it won't really affect newbies. Veterans will be busy fighting/playing with other veterans and likewise for newbies I think. Sieging will only be allowed with people in your level range I believe, so if you're new don't worry about getting annihilated by an old time member.

Skyhouse - you cannot be attacked while you're offline, so no worries.

Jolleyboy
01-22-2011, 04:54 PM
Good to know, thanks :)