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TheBlackPumpkin
01-27-2014, 02:48 PM
Well, first I would like to start by saying, I love the game, after about four days of playing it I've dumped about 40+ hours into the game. However, one of the first thing's i noticed is how many thing's are not explained to new players, either through tooltips, tutorials, or quests.

Now, normally anyone who has spent a extensive amount of time playing RTS games can figure out the basics fairly easily. However there are some things that I thought were rather hard to figure out, such as the fact that you cannot see the stats of units that you are looking at in the market. Granted I cant name every single thing that I had trouble figuring out, but, here is another one. Nowhere, in the store or otherwise have I seen information about how heroes, wizards, and elite units and handled. Now as all of you likely know, the units i just mentioned are all immortal, when they die, they lose some levels, which seem to very based on what level they are, and then respawn when you heal them or take them back to your town.

This is VERY confusing for new players, my suggestion would be to add unit cards to the market. And make a hero / elite unit tutorial that goes through how hero units / elite units work and what happens when they die. Along with a chart showing how many levels they lose.

Another thing that a lot of new players find daunting, is PvP. Now personally the way I look at it is, it's a MMORTS, the main component for this type of game is PvP, so why'd ya buy it?

Well as developers of your product I'm sure you try your best to offer both PvE and PvP experiences to whoever wants them. PvE is done fairly well, with the quests to guide you along with taking NPC cities you can grasp PvE and what to do fairly easily after awhile. However PvP is a whole new ball park. A lot of players that don't want to PvP had a bad experience their first time out. Either they got fried by a wizard, someone who just knew the PvP mechanics better, or just got attacked and didn't know what to do.

Personally I haven't tried PvP yet, why? Because I don't feel like losing my near 1800 strength army to someone who has been PvPing for a long time and knows how to crush all but equal level experience players.

To fix this, my suggestion is as follows, create a non-risk PvP mode for friends to invite eachother to for practice. You can have the same strength rules apply, and simply make it so neither player loses nor gains anything. That way people can figure out how to PvP and how to play, without having to lose all of their hard work, and in turn either quit your game, or simply stop PvPing, and in my opinion, both are equally bad options.

These are only a few of the things I have noticed, as I cannot recall all of it off the top of my head, however if you wish, I will continue to post suggestions related to this as more come up. Weather or not it is even possible to do what I am suggesting at this point, I have no clue, but hopefully you will find my suggestions and insight helpful in some way.

Konstantin Fomenko
01-27-2014, 04:01 PM
Glad to see your enjoying your time in-game so far. And what a great list of suggestions.

Tool-tips for the market units to list stats and details - very good idea. Adding this to our list.

As for PvP - we are working hard on balancing things with every patch (granted wizards are OP right now, this will be fixed with-in 24 hours). However as for best PvP suggestion - why not start small? with a small of of 100 strength - just make some new level 5 units - 20 or so - and try them in PvP, you`ll get lots of crowns even if you loose.

As for the no-risk PvP game mode...this is something we could look at. Hm...perhaps. I do see a good idea here. Taken under consideration, but such battles would have to give no rewards, and we can`t just limit this to friends.

TheBlackPumpkin
01-27-2014, 05:08 PM
Glad to see your enjoying your time in-game so far. And what a great list of suggestions.

Tool-tips for the market units to list stats and details - very good idea. Adding this to our list.

As for PvP - we are working hard on balancing things with every patch (granted wizards are OP right now, this will be fixed with-in 24 hours). However as for best PvP suggestion - why not start small? with a small of of 100 strength - just make some new level 5 units - 20 or so - and try them in PvP, you`ll get lots of crowns even if you loose.

As for the no-risk PvP game mode...this is something we could look at. Hm...perhaps. I do see a good idea here. Taken under consideration, but such battles would have to give no rewards, and we can`t just limit this to friends.


A valid point, and this in my opinion IS the best way to get into PvP. However If I had a army of for example, 5 level 5 swordsmen, archers, and knights, someone could attack me with a wizard, and a couple of other extremely high level units. To balance this issue i think army strength either needs to be modified more by ranks, or a system would need to be implemented so that players of a certain "level" cant go after newer players. Im not sure what the best way to implement something like that would be, and personally, I dont like things that restrict freedom like that, but that being said, its not really fair for someone with a few lvl 20s to be able to stomp someone of equal army strength, but their units are just so supperior because of levels.

I'm glad the no risk PvP mode has some appeal to you, and yes, i understand the no rewards aspect, I actually meant to put that part into my original post "if i didnt" And I also understand the part of not just friends. That was simply the template i was using in my head.

Im glad you found the ideas good / helpful, gotta love Dev's that are active in the community :)

TheBlackPumpkin
01-27-2014, 05:23 PM
New suggestion coming your way!

So currently, if a player doesn't want to fight a PvP battle, you pay off the enemy. The problem I have found with this mechanic is it is very annoying / tedious making sure every single army / your town has enough gold to pay off a attack. My suggestion would be to eliminate the need to carry gold for payoff's in your army. And make it so any gold in the empire can be used for a payoff.

Unless of course you intended this side effect in the design, to make it something players have to keep a eye on at all times if they want to pay people off.

Langor
01-27-2014, 05:41 PM
New suggestion coming your way!

So currently, if a player doesn't want to fight a PvP battle, you pay off the enemy. The problem I have found with this mechanic is it is very annoying / tedious making sure every single army / your town has enough gold to pay off a attack. My suggestion would be to eliminate the need to carry gold for payoff's in your army. And make it so any gold in the empire can be used for a payoff.

Unless of course you intended this side effect in the design, to make it something players have to keep a eye on at all times if they want to pay people off.

Hello Black Pumpkin. Very good and open minded idea's. There is a lot I would like to suggest myself but have not had the time. Its good to see players care about the game and want to help make it better. So keep those suggestions coming!

Also, on the last suggestion about the payoffs. I completely agree with you. Pays offs should be an agreement between two armies. And a caravan will delivery the goods (Not really but speaking in theory).

Actually, There should be three options:

Fight: Engage the enemy for glory and honor! Or whatever it is you fight for. :p

Pay Off: The payment should be automatically deducted from your city.

Retreat: If you cannot pay off the enemy due to lack of resources you can choose to retreat instead of fight. This will cause a chance for your army to take damage and loose units (Due to you running away from the enemy and them trying to kill you). This can also be an option if you don't want to pay them.

Thoughts and opinions?


EDIT: Didn't see your first reply. Currently units do scale dynamically in Strength rating rating as they level. Also, to PvP someone by default you need to be within 10% of their strength rating. A level 100 wizard is about 300-350 strength rating by itself. Just thought I would throw that out there.

TheBlackPumpkin
01-27-2014, 05:48 PM
I agree with you except for on one point "The payment should be automatically deducted from your city."

The reason i disagree with this is you would then have to keep a large amount of gold in your city at all times, perhaps, we have found a use for the guild hall??

I understand that, but just because you have the same "strength" doesnt mean you do, if that makes sense, for instance, 2 units of lvl 20 swordsmen / knights can beat the same army strength if they are also using knights / swordsmen.

Langor
01-27-2014, 05:56 PM
I understand that, but just because you have the same "strength" doesnt mean you do, if that makes sense, for instance, 2 units of lvl 20 swordsmen / knights can beat the same army strength if they are also using knights / swordsmen.

Lets say for concept of example (These are not current strength ratings)

A level one knight is a strength 10. A level 20 knight will be strength 30.

So if two units of level 20 knights (for a total of 60 strength) fight two units of level 20 knights their strength rating will be 60 strength also. If two level one knights of strength 10 fight two level 20 knights of strength 30 it would be a 30 vs 60 strength battle. Which can't happen because its more than 10% difference.

And if you are talking about a players level in their profile. That is their heroes level. I can send you 60k gold and you can take your hero to the nearest trade city and power level him to 60 in a few minutes. That has nothing to do with how good a player is or the strength of his army (unless the Hero is added into it of course).

Langor
01-27-2014, 05:58 PM
I agree with you except for on one point "The payment should be automatically deducted from your city."

The reason i disagree with this is you would then have to keep a large amount of gold in your city at all times, perhaps, we have found a use for the guild hall??


Well now you don't make sense to me. When you do a pay off it is instant. So what would be the difference if it comes from your army or your city?

TheBlackPumpkin
01-27-2014, 06:06 PM
Lets say for concept of example (These are not current strength ratings)

A level one knight is a strength 10. A level 20 knight will be strength 30.

So if two units of level 20 knights (for a total of 60 strength) fight two units of level 20 knights their strength rating will be 60 strength also. If two level one knights of strength 10 fight two level 20 knights of strength 30 it would be a 30 vs 60 strength battle. Which can't happen because its more than 10% difference.

And if you are talking about a players level in their profile. That is their heroes level. I can send you 60k gold and you can take your hero to the nearest trade city and power level him to 60 in a few minutes. That has nothing to do with how good a player is or the strength of his army (unless the Hero is added into it of course).


My point is, if you have a level 20 knight vs a equal army strength of swordsmen at level 1, the knight will win, thats the best i can explain myself.

Perhaps i didnt explain my point well enough, or if i did, then its a stupid idea, and you can ignore it xD

TheBlackPumpkin
01-27-2014, 06:07 PM
Well now you don't make sense to me. When you do a pay off it is instant. So what would be the difference if it comes from your army or your city?


My thinking was instead of having to take up gold storage for units, buildings etc up in your city for payoffs, you could store the gold in the guild hall, however, either would work, that is just how i would prefer it.

Langor
01-27-2014, 06:08 PM
My point is, if you have a level 20 knight vs a equal army strength of swordsmen at level 1, the knight will win, thats the best i can explain myself.

Perhaps i didnt explain my point well enough, or if i did, then its a stupid idea, and you can ignore it xD

A level 20 knight will have a higher strength rating then a level 1 swordsmen. A level 20 should be able to beat a level 1, in 1 vs 1 generally speaking. Unless its a unit that is meant to counter another kind of unit. Then it should have a better chance. But 20 levels is a huge difference.

EDIT:
We will just drop this part of the discussion, my mind was thinking of things in incorrect terms.

I think I get what you are saying now BTW.

You mean let say a Swordsman unit is level 1 with a strength of 20 and a level 5 Knight is level 20 with a strength of 20 the knight would always win? This is a never ending balance issue. And remember that some units are designed to have strengths against other units.

Langor
01-27-2014, 06:10 PM
My thinking was instead of having to take up gold storage for units, buildings etc up in your city for payoffs, you could store the gold in the guild hall, however, either would work, that is just how i would prefer it.

I really like your guild hall idea also. My idea could coincide with yours. Just add a forth option.

Alliance Pay Off: Works as pay off does but comes out of alliance funds.

EDIT: Just remember not everyone is in an alliance or want to be in an alliance. So you got to give non-alliance players the option to pay off also.

TheBlackPumpkin
01-27-2014, 06:17 PM
A level 20 knight will have a higher strength rating then a level 1 swordsmen. A level 20 should be able to beat a level 1, in 1 vs 1 generally speaking. Unless its a unit that is meant to counter another kind of unit. Then it should have a better chance. But 20 levels is a huge difference.

We will just drop this part of the discussion, my mind was thinking of things in incorrect terms.

As for the Alliance pay off, i agree, that would work well in my opinion

Langor
01-27-2014, 07:09 PM
As for the no-risk PvP game mode...this is something we could look at. Hm...perhaps. I do see a good idea here. Taken under consideration, but such battles would have to give no rewards, and we can`t just limit this to friends.

In the capital city of each race create a new option called 'The Arena'. When you enter the capital you can select this option for the game to queue you up against another novice army. Have a beginner quest that takes you there and completes after your first match. Make sure the quest informs you that it is a practice hall to perfect your skills and prepare you for PvP. Also have the quest inform you that you may practice there as much as you want as long as are in the limits of the following restrictions.

The Arena Restrictions
Army must be less than 400 rating.
Army must be 30 units or less.
Army must have at least 10 units. (EDIT Added to prevent possible exploits)
No mages, dragons or elite units can enter accept the users hero.
Hero must be level 20 or below. (For Hero unit to enter, a player can have a higher level hero but the hero cant be in the army)
No resources are awarded for match.
No wins/loss stats will be awarded to users profile. (Other than 1 quest reward)

TheBlackPumpkin
01-27-2014, 08:05 PM
In the capital city of each race create a new option called 'The Arena'. When you enter the capital you can select this option for the game to queue you up against another novice army. Have a beginner quest that takes you there and completes after your first match. Make sure the quest informs you that it is a practice hall to perfect your skills and prepare you for PvP. Also have the quest inform you that you may practice there as much as you want as long as are in the limits of the following restrictions.

The Arena Restrictions
Army must be less than 400 rating.
Army must be 30 units or less.
No mages, dragons or elite units can enter accept the users hero.
Hero must be level 20 or below. (For Hero unit to enter, a player can have a higher level hero but the hero cant enter)
No resources are awarded for match.
No wins/loss stats will be awarded to users profile. (Other than 1 quest reward)


The only problem i have with this idea is you would not be able to practice with heroes or elites, which are a vital part of most army compositions, even at low strength values

Langor
01-27-2014, 08:16 PM
The only problem i have with this idea is you would not be able to practice with heroes or elites, which are a vital part of most army compositions, even at low strength values

Heroes are able to go into the battles. If they get above level 20 you can start using them to exploit. A level 60 Hero will have a 50 hp/s regeneration with 80/72/84 resists.

This is a place for new people to practice new armies. Once you get the fundamentals of fighting you will know how to use the elites and which ones you need for your army before you even purchase them. Most common newbie question is which elite should I buy or which dragon should I buy. Then they add them to their army thinking that just because they are an elite they are more powerful than regular units. I knew the strengths and weaknesses to them before I even owned one. Half the fights I have been in I don't use elites. Elites are good for certain roles. The only time elites are OP in your average army is when they are being exploited. Such as a Wizard and three horse carts to fight low strength rating armies and collect the loot.

TheBlackPumpkin
01-27-2014, 08:53 PM
I just dont see a point in not allowing elites if you dont gain exp or anything from the practice battles why wouldnt elites be allowed? It just seems rather silly to me, it would be easier and make much more sense to allow any units in the practice battles.

Langor
01-27-2014, 10:41 PM
The more open it is the more it can be exploited. As you get the economy down the only thing left to do is PvP. You don't fight for resources anymore. In fact the veterans will pay you after the fight for your losses. Decent ones at least.

There are other players out there that are at this point and are bored with the game. So they find it entertaining to set up armies that are not intended to be made and destroy certain people.

A great example was the wizard I said. That guy killed 42 units of a new player before he could even get to the single mage. He created a 1 unit elite army to hunt new players. He was level 100 most likely and the spell he used is getting nerfed with 24 hours. But the more open you make the practice match the more ways people will find to exploit it.

So we want to prevent these type of things from happening. I know it sounds fun playing elite units but they are for specific roles and wont help until a new player understands the basics. And once you have the basics down the learning curve is not hard to understand with these units. So lets keep things less complicated which will actually help new players learn the game faster.

But then again, we all have our opinions. And this is just for discussion. The Devs are the deciding factor on weather there will even be a newbie matchmaking system. :)

TheBlackPumpkin
01-28-2014, 11:04 AM
The more open it is the more it can be exploited. As you get the economy down the only thing left to do is PvP. You don't fight for resources anymore. In fact the veterans will pay you after the fight for your losses. Decent ones at least.

There are other players out there that are at this point and are bored with the game. So they find it entertaining to set up armies that are not intended to be made and destroy certain people.

A great example was the wizard I said. That guy killed 42 units of a new player before he could even get to the single mage. He created a 1 unit elite army to hunt new players. He was level 100 most likely and the spell he used is getting nerfed with 24 hours. But the more open you make the practice match the more ways people will find to exploit it.

So we want to prevent these type of things from happening. I know it sounds fun playing elite units but they are for specific roles and wont help until a new player understands the basics. And once you have the basics down the learning curve is not hard to understand with these units. So lets keep things less complicated which will actually help new players learn the game faster.

But then again, we all have our opinions. And this is just for discussion. The Devs are the deciding factor on weather there will even be a newbie matchmaking system. :)


But again, I dont see how a newbie matchmaking system, that doesn't allow you to gain or lose anything, could be exploited. Unless it was open matchmaking and some idiot started using a lvl 100 wizard like you said. But that is why my original suggestion was to make it invite only.

Langor
01-28-2014, 11:22 AM
But again, I dont see how a newbie matchmaking system, that doesn't allow you to gain or lose anything, could be exploited.

When you are end game anything you win or lose doesnt do anything for you either. Some people have the mindset that it is fun to take advantage of people. Im glad you dont understand, its a good thing.

But either way I don't really care if they add elites or not as long as whatever system they put in place actually helps new people and not detour them with people exploiting. I was not knocking your idea's just stating what I would do. Thats what we are here for right? Suggestions :)

And with the friend system the Dev already stated at the beginning that he wouldnt do that. Unless you can bring something to the table that would change his mind.

But lets get back on track. We can both agree that there should be a noobie practice area that doesnt award anything and you dont lose units. If the Devs decide they have time they can see the suggestions and create what they see fit. Remember, things can always be looked at and balanced later on. Just got to be careful somethings arnt too extreme like the wizard was.

Feel free to keep up the suggestions. Your idea's and suggestion's are in the right place.

TheBlackPumpkin
01-28-2014, 02:20 PM
When you are end game anything you win or lose doesnt do anything for you either. Some people have the mindset that it is fun to take advantage of people. Im glad you dont understand, its a good thing.

But either way I don't really care if they add elites or not as long as whatever system they put in place actually helps new people and not detour them with people exploiting. I was not knocking your idea's just stating what I would do. Thats what we are here for right? Suggestions :)

And with the friend system the Dev already stated at the beginning that he wouldnt do that. Unless you can bring something to the table that would change his mind.

But lets get back on track. We can both agree that there should be a noobie practice area that doesnt award anything and you dont lose units. If the Devs decide they have time they can see the suggestions and create what they see fit. Remember, things can always be looked at and balanced later on. Just got to be careful somethings arnt too extreme like the wizard was.

Feel free to keep up the suggestions. Your idea's and suggestion's are in the right place.

Oh yea and don't get me wrong, I understand you aren't knocking my ideas, and I wasnt trying to argue, just discuss it. I've enjoyed tossing ideas / discussing with someone, especially when they give me a different point of view.