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Kire
09-09-2009, 04:26 PM
I dont know if there are any capitals jet...

It would be nice that each faction- humans, elves and orcs, should have in mmo their own npc controlled "capital city".
It would be big and well fortified so if ppl (other factions, not the one that is city) would want to win an attack would have to be well armed and at least around 6-10, but can also more. But the ppl of same faction could also come defend it.

There would be time limit in order to win an attack.
So if attackers win they get 3-4-5x money as soldiers cost that were attacking (this would reduce slacking armies - sending just few in order to just get reward).
If defenders win they get, beside 1-2x money as the cost of their defending soldiers, also some points. Depending on this points ppl can get some bonuses to trade for cheap with capital or getting some reinforcements if attacked or some special title or extra hero or a capital guild house which allows you to build around max 10 capital champions....

Here could also be some faction events like medieval turnirs or mage duels and stuffs.
And each month there is elected new king or just the grand defender of that region/faction which get some extra resources, the one with most points (attacking would be just to get lots of money) would become that. But if he would loose capital while he is defender he would need to pay some money for repairing.
This person could also create a guild of his dedicated helpers (around 10), which than get upgrade hero - better armor, each kill he do gives money....). When defender is changed at end of the month (cuz he cant get points while there), the helpers stays but the new one can keep them or replace. if you are replaced than hero goes into normal mode.

If city is destroyed than it has 1-2 days or whole weak to be rebuild (you can send some money and get points in order to help rebuild faster).

I also heared there will be different regions for same faction.... Maybe would be capital city for every region.

There is also one problem that i didnt find solution. This is, what if 10 ppl are attacking and than comes 100 to defend it. The question is how to balance things up and how to put so numbers wont be 1000 players vs. 1000 =) and balanced sides (less defenders ofc cuz they have also capital).
One solution would be to set limit based on number attacking ppl. And also how to arrange the fight so defenders will know when will help be needed and to come to defend in time, before the capital is destoryed (or would be just like at warhammer online that war call =P).
(maybe each reinforcements would come by ships to the city port and than from there you would bring your army to the walls ....)

There were also other things but damn i dont remember them atm =P.
So how do you like this ?=)

Darathor
09-09-2009, 04:51 PM
The idea seems neat and would promote more racial guilds than multi-racial ones. There could be a set amount of people attacking and defending the capital. Like 10 attackers perhaps, and about 8 or so defenders(the capital has a large npc army and is on a high difficulty. The city would have to be huge enough to have 4-5 defenders on the walls outside the castle and protecting the gates. The idea to have the best player of each race command it is... unique. But would the commander just control that city as well as his other cities and armies, or would he be switched over to controlling the giant capital city and army? OR, would the capital city be the player's own city? If a player gains his race's capital city, wouldn't one of the perks be the ability to not be attacked by his own race? That would be neat.

sneaky_squirrel
09-09-2009, 05:10 PM
From my point of view, this would just be a big lag fest (That's right, I have a voice and an opinion XD).

Although it would be nice to be able to run A LOT of cities if you can afford them that is (Each one you conquer makes the next one even more expensive), so there could be lime an "evil empire" and the small countries must unite forces against it, plus it would be nice to have outposts (You could choose between a city and an outpost (Much cheaper but a lot less defensive and easily overtaken).

Kire
09-09-2009, 05:31 PM
From my point of view, this would just be a big lag fest (That's right, I have a voice and an opinion XD).


Thats why a limit of ppl is a must, but on other hand if there are 10000 ppl playing and giving only 4 ppl chance to defend it just suck. Dont have solution for that x.x

To Darathor:
I was thinking just he would have the hero of grand defender/king and some extra bonuses and maybe just can build his guard house there, which produce your guard champions (around 10 and they are spell immune and even if he is not online they are there, as is also king/ grand defender in capital- afc if you are online you can move them out but always when ofline they are in capital). The problem at player controled capital is that ppl are not all the time online. I prefer tho most NPC controled one =), so grand defender must bring his own army (beside those 10 and king he already have there) (and if it is solution for a limit of defenders and attackers than grand defender would have priority for a spot).

Oh and forgot.... if enemies win or defenders, they also get some xp for survived soldiers.

This would bring also some RP action, you know... the ones loyal to "king"-helping defend, enemies and others... =)

Generation
09-09-2009, 06:03 PM
i wonder how the clan system is going to work though well we shall see soon :D

sneaky_squirrel
09-09-2009, 07:27 PM
Loved the immune to magic idea, maybe there could be "holy" type units which are more expensive, have a small limit but are immune to magic ;p.

MrBlack103
09-09-2009, 09:28 PM
IMO very few units should be immune to magic, but making a select few very resistant might be appealing.

Kal Torak
09-09-2009, 09:37 PM
I think all units should resist magic, some very strongly some not so much, in a focus of course (like rock golem 97% immune to fire and water spells) Elves natural 50% immunity to spells that involve stuff like trees, bushes and weeds and their beloved little sheep.

Kire
09-10-2009, 06:46 AM
IMO very few units should be immune to magic, but making a select few very resistant might be appealing.

Thats why i said limit is around 10 (this is little in comparing to late size army),
oh and kal torak... cant agree with you 100% that every units should resist magic =). Tho i believe they have stronger nature/restoration/good magic so this could means stronger defense magic so actually no living creture, made out of normal flesh, could have that resistance except like said golems or special units, which have some kind magic protection against those things and not resistance... like i said =P. And you cant simplify with giving to elves 40% nature magic resistance. With what reason? Just because they live with nature desnt mean they cant get hit by water or tree sticks or rock in the head....=P

The Witch King of Angmar
09-10-2009, 02:46 PM
As for the capital cities, in MMO mode, you are assigned to a region (or you may be able to pick it) and that functions as your capital city, if I'm not mistaken. I know for a fact in campaign mode each faction has a capital city. Shifting over to the magic discussion, maybe wizards could use some kind of magic on units to make them immune or stronger vs. magic. Or perhaps a leadership ability of some type could increase their immunity.

Darathor
09-10-2009, 04:24 PM
I don't think that was what he meant by capital cities, but what you said cleared up how the whole "capital city" thing will work, thanks Witch King of Angmar. So we can have not just one city, but an empire! Yay! It's nice to know that I can surround the human city a might build with about half-a-dozen little village fiefdoms. :)

Kire
09-10-2009, 05:55 PM
As for the capital cities, in MMO mode, you are assigned to a region (or you may be able to pick it) and that functions as your capital city, if I'm not mistaken. I know for a fact in campaign mode each faction has a capital city.

I was thinking more about the grand city of humans/orcs/elves, the one that could combine ppl and also do some rivals. As i heard there will be regions like mountains, woods and swamps for elves (if i am not mistaken) and i put option for every region one capital, so if there is more ppl, there is also more room for defending spots and stuffs.....
Anyway it isnt necessary that it is "capital city"... since players have their own and that would start confusion, but it could be an Oppidum antiqus =P ... some kind of ancient city of great importance to faction ppl.

Tho my idea gives a lot of new action in war world of dawn of fantasy.

Darathor
09-10-2009, 06:46 PM
There will most likely be at least one huge npc city for each race from the campaign. One of those might substitute a "capital" city for a race.

The Witch King of Angmar
09-10-2009, 07:38 PM
Maybe players could go there to trade resources or get more troops or something.

Darathor
09-10-2009, 08:24 PM
It would be nice to have centralized market for each region. I don't know how they will handle resource trading right now and this would make it simpler, but possibly inconvenient(unless there were multiple in a region).

sneaky_squirrel
09-10-2009, 09:40 PM
Would be nice if resources were regulated (Not infinite resources), like away for players to gradually lose their resources and having those be reintegrated into "Mother Nature" which should probably have a limit ;p.

wills370
09-11-2009, 12:57 AM
IU like the capital idea. Although i believe it would have to be AI controlled unless in defenc in which case the largest player of that race in the region would have to become defender. Once an attack is inbound. and his own cities taken from the field to prevent him having to loose his own armies and city'ies while defending that one.

Ofcourse his cities would continue to operate to raise income/rescources and he could get a gift from the people if he succesfully defends for the aloted time.


It may even be nessasary to have a few defenders so it can be ran 24 hours.

Konstantin Fomenko
09-11-2009, 09:32 AM
I`m glad to say that almost all the speculations about the capital cities are correct.

There are currently 12 large NPC towns in the game, and we plan to expand that to around 15. Five per race.

At any point player heroes can enter the NPC town in RTS view, and walk around in the vibrant NPC controlled town (u`ll see hundreds of citizens going around their daily business if u visit day time e.t.c)

There will be people to talk to and quests to get.

We are planning to implement trading with-in the NPC towns, allowing player to send a cargo of resources there to trade for more favorable rates. (for example player can sell stone resources at one rate on the market at his own estate, but if he sends a caravan with stone to the NPC towns, it could be sold for much more gold.

Additionally some types of mercenary untis could only be hired in the NPC town.

We also, might create some sort of player auctions in the city - we`ll see about that.

Also player will be able to chat with all the players inside the NPC town.

Now to the main point of this topic - players will be able to attack NPC towns, but it would take 3 or 4 players to attack the city. But rewards for taking down the NPC town, especially the capital city would indeed be great.

We should be able to send a message to nearby friendly players to defend the city, so their army would fight alongside the NPC players.

It`s not confirmed yet, but most likely we`ll restrict players attacking NPC towns of their own race (perhaps some sort of outlaw status)

Kire
09-11-2009, 09:46 AM
Wow nice =P, cant wait to attack orcs capital to pew pew and laugh at them =), thanks for your reply.
Oh if attackers win so the defenders will have to repair their city or it will be after as nothing happened?

Konstantin Fomenko
09-11-2009, 10:46 AM
Oh if attackers win so the defenders will have to repair their city or it will be after as nothing happened?

Most likely nothing will happen. Unfortunately we have to count for dozens of such attack/defend NPC town happening at once on the same NPC town.

Kal Torak
09-11-2009, 11:04 AM
Wow awesome, I was thinking it would be great in an expansion or something but too much to throw together now, guess it's already done though. Woot! Also don't expect to hit that orc town without me beating on you :D

Kaznafein
09-11-2009, 11:59 AM
stop giving us such good info just maks me want to play the game even more:) and now I have to wait for this to ugh, the pain. This game is going to be awesome;)

sneaky_squirrel
09-11-2009, 02:46 PM
Interesting, can't wait to see how this turns out to be ;p.

Darathor
09-11-2009, 02:48 PM
That really does sound awesome! So there will be caravans-ish type things that go to npc cities to sell stuff? That is awesome and I hope they will be attackable! Would be sweet to have bandits that raid caravans for resources, and for some players have an army to act as guards for someone for a minor fee. It's also nice to see that you let some people defend a nearby npc town.

Kal Torak
09-11-2009, 02:53 PM
That really does sound awesome! So there will be caravans-ish type things that go to npc cities to sell stuff? That is awesome and I hope they will be attackable! Would be sweet to have bandits that raid caravans for resources, and for some players have an army to act as guards for someone for a minor fee. It's also nice to see that you let some people defend a nearby npc town.
I'm gonna harass all your caravans til you pay me for protection :D

sneaky_squirrel
09-11-2009, 03:06 PM
I am guessing you will require of my "protection demanding" services, but you better pay me hyandsomely, good bandits are hard to find.

I love roleplay :D.

Kire
09-11-2009, 03:48 PM
That really does sound awesome! So there will be caravans-ish type things that go to npc cities to sell stuff? That is awesome and I hope they will be attackable! Would be sweet to have bandits that raid caravans for resources, and for some players have an army to act as guards for someone for a minor fee. It's also nice to see that you let some people defend a nearby npc town.

I dont think so, that there will be caravans. I think the traveling of caravans will be similar to travian ones. Tho you cant have caravans seeing them walking from you to x person all over the world map. Since i guess will consist of many maps just like at total war. I guess =), so caravan attacking cant happen. But maybe it is possible for blocking trading with army ?=) but doubt it.

edit: damn i am wrong here =)

Konstantin Fomenko
09-11-2009, 04:48 PM
Caravans will act like a regular Army, but mostly loaded with horsecarts instead of troops - for example. Since having a horsecart in your army increases the amount of resources the army can carry. So while an army of 10 swordsman battalion could carry 80 stone, army with 8 horsecarts and 2 swordsman would carry 540.

Other player would no doubt try to seek out and attack such caravans, so Player might want to have a second army nearby to escort the caravan, or some allied armies who would come to his aid.

I am guessing you will require of my "protection demanding" services, but you better pay me hyandsomely, good bandits are hard to find.
You can do just that, position several armies in a region, and put them up at the alliance auction for other players to buy their protection. You might be quite bust though, fighting one battle after another protecting caravans.

Kal Torak
09-11-2009, 04:56 PM
Caravans will act like a regular Army, but mostly loaded with horsecarts instead of troops - for example. Since having a horsecart in your army increases the amount of resources the army can carry. So while an army of 10 swordsman battalion could carry 80 stone, army with 8 horsecarts and 2 swordsman would carry 540.

Other player would no doubt try to seek out and attack such caravans, so Player might want to have a second army nearby to escort the caravan, or some allied armies who would come to his aid.


You can do just that, position several armies in a region, and put them up at the alliance auction for other players to buy their protection. You might be quite bust though, fighting one battle after another protecting caravans.
Awesome! I'm so gonna do it, i'll ambush the same players caravans repeatedly taking out all their protection with my skillz til they agree to pay me a "fair" sum for my "protection". \o/ Orc raiders FTW!

Darathor
09-11-2009, 05:37 PM
It's nice the depth you guys are adding to the game! I was amazed to find out about the caravans and learn about how they work! I may just have to find a few certain people and ambush a couple dozen caravans.:)

MrBlack103
09-11-2009, 06:37 PM
Now to the main point of this topic - players will be able to attack NPC towns, but it would take 3 or 4 players to attack the city. But rewards for taking down the NPC town, especially the capital city would indeed be great.

So, as I see it, an army of yours could be resting at, say, the human capital, going about its business, when suddenly it's all like "To the walls! Defend the city! Keep those orc filth/elvish snobs out!". Am I correct?

sneaky_squirrel
09-11-2009, 08:27 PM
I smell trade routes and underworld dealing ;p.

Nice job on the features.

Darathor
09-11-2009, 09:17 PM
There will most likely be roads between all the npc cities and possibly to or near your own city, so I think there will be some trade routes going on. What happens if your army and someone else's army run into each other, there coming from opposite directions straight toward each other? They would just pass each other right?

Adding these things really add to the gameplay and I look forward to spend a lot of time with caravans, friendly or not...:D

sneaky_squirrel
09-11-2009, 09:19 PM
Would be cool if regions were customized as detailed and uniquely designed maps ;p.

Josh Warner
09-11-2009, 10:28 PM
There will most likely be roads between all the npc cities and possibly to or near your own city, so I think there will be some trade routes going on. What happens if your army and someone else's army run into each other, there coming from opposite directions straight toward each other? They would just pass each other right?

Adding these things really add to the gameplay and I look forward to spend a lot of time with caravans, friendly or not...:D

I'm guessing you're given the option of attacking them if you chose when they're close enough, but if you don't do anything yeah, they'd just keep moving. I can't see it working any other way, but the information on this whole thing is very limited, if nonexistent.

MrBlack103
09-11-2009, 10:37 PM
I don't think attacking someone's convoy would really work. What if the said person was offline at the time?

Josh Warner
09-11-2009, 10:54 PM
I don't think attacking someone's convoy would really work. What if the said person was offline at the time?

then their convoy should disappear and stop moving. Otherwise you could send them, then log off, and there would be zero risk. I assume the advantage of being able to get more than it would be worth otherwise is meant to be balanced more by the risk of having it stolen, than the time it takes to send.

sneaky_squirrel
09-11-2009, 10:55 PM
How's about if you log off, they still walk and when the confrontation starts, your convoy is controlled by the AI or something, FYI don't send caravans marching while your offline ;p.

Josh Warner
09-11-2009, 11:04 PM
How's about if you log off, they still walk and when the confrontation starts, your convoy is controlled by the AI or something, FYI don't send caravans marching while your offline ;p.

I suppose that would work.. Forgot all about how they wanted to have AI running parts of your forces and deciding which to control personally was going to be a fairly large aspect. I still don't like the idea of being productive while offline, though.

Kire
09-12-2009, 05:24 AM
I still don't like the idea of being productive while offline, though.

Why not ? at least you dont have to be all the time by computer and play the game and you could actually do something else that is good for you in real life while now worrying how will you gather xx resources or anything like that. And why wouldnt you like that?

Edit: Afterall you are the king of your ppl...so why not let them do some works so that you- king could do some lazyness sleeping while they do hard work for you =), thats why kings are for right?=)

Darathor
09-12-2009, 08:36 AM
Would be cool if regions were customized as detailed and uniquely designed maps ;p.

I believe that they are making every bit of mmo map by hand, so it should be detailed and rather unique maps.

I also don't really like having something automated even while your offline, it sort of makes you not have to play it nearly as much because you are getting resources anyway. You shouldn't get that much gain for no effort.

sneaky_squirrel
09-12-2009, 09:19 AM
What I meant was that the caravans would have very poor AI and be easier to take down if you are offline, and I hope that you don't gain much resources as you would from quests and trading.

Konstantin Fomenko
09-12-2009, 11:28 AM
There is an option to let AI fight on player`s behalf, if one of his armies is attacked and he wants to concentrate on something else.

And ALL of player activity only takes place while he`s offline. The only 3 things that happen during offline period - is economy, construction and research in your hometown.

Puppeteer
09-12-2009, 11:36 AM
Research? I hadn't heard about this before - nice!

sneaky_squirrel
09-12-2009, 11:41 AM
I will get my best alchemists to perfect my star cruiser engine technology and the final touch ups to the Death star ;p.

Oh and also a cure for dark magic cancer and Hocus Pocus Aids, not to mention the newest advances in Bio Orc-tron technology.

I hope technology is fun to research ;p.

Josh Warner
09-12-2009, 08:31 PM
Research? I hadn't heard about this before - nice!

I've heard about it before, the way I assume research in MMO mode works is somewhat like browser games where it takes an exceptional length of time to reach the end of the tree, but the later ones are only small upgrades to existing stuff, not wildly game altering or unlocking new units to preserve balance, at least that's how I'd assume they plan on doing it if they intend to keep research a part of the game so you can't just cap out and forget about it, I'm thinking it'll end up working like future tech does in Civ4, sorta. A generic small increase to stuff that takes an absurdly long time to research, whereas all the stuff you need to actually compete would be available earlier on. Gonna stop before I get redundant, can a dev confirm if it will work something like that for MMORTS? I understand it's also an entirely different beast for regular rts.

I will get my best alchemists to perfect my star cruiser engine technology and the final touch ups to the Death star ;p.

Oh and also a cure for dark magic cancer and Hocus Pocus Aids, not to mention the newest advances in Bio Orc-tron technology.

I hope technology is fun to research ;p.

I nearly spit out my drink, lol

wills370
09-14-2009, 12:53 PM
Hmm sounds good, with the caravans however if you have armies can you set mulitple armies as escorts to the caravans or just have to set up running defences as the caravan moves?

Also would the NPC city take over the rescources to reach that higher gold value or would it be left for other traders to buy? In which case you would have to wait to sell it?

And if a player takes over a large NPC city with other players. How does the rewards split, if a player only contributes 100 troops would he still get as much a reward as somone who sent 600 and broke through the enemy wall and ulitmatly won the battle?

and would a player whos army got wiped out in the offence still get a reward?

And would the large cities return to NPC control?

And with the ally system if he is suposed to be protecting your caravan and he goes offline what happens to the caravans defence? Are they put under your control untill he returns online or the journey is complete?

Sorry for all the questions and the 100's more i could ask but thoose were the ones that came to me imediatly as i read all the posts.

Darathor
09-14-2009, 03:40 PM
Even if a player's army was wiped out attacking an npc city, I believe that they would be compensated on the amount of units they sent to attack. I would think that the npc cities would respawn to the player either instantly or after something like a day.

wills370
09-15-2009, 12:42 AM
Even if a player's army was wiped out attacking an npc city, I believe that they would be compensated on the amount of units they sent to attack. I would think that the npc cities would respawn to the player either instantly or after something like a day.

Hmm that sounds fair enough, and i guess the npc city could use the looting perk to fund repairs etc on there side.

deathgrail
09-22-2009, 07:21 PM
I like the idea of attacking supply routes, but they should cap the plunder at max 50% of the caravans value. So it pays you to protect your caravans, but your wont be completly out of resources if you fail to protect one.

Darathor
09-23-2009, 11:20 AM
Nah, a full penalty would be better because if there wasn't, what would be the point because you would probably lose more than you gained due to lost units(unless the guy didn't send enough units to protect it properly) unless it was a huge caravan and then it would be protected with a veritable army or more.

Generation
09-23-2009, 07:07 PM
show no mercy to enemies!

wills370
09-24-2009, 12:50 PM
If you left a caravan unprotected then you deserve to have it raided and loose everything :) Thats my opinion anyway. Even if you did only loose 50% then the player would just attack it agsint 5 mins later and take the rest Thats how i would play it anyway.

Espadachim
09-24-2009, 01:26 PM
Also there could be some of real life risks like NPC bandits, animals dieing of long journeys or a hungry creature, etc. :p

I would spend a lot on caravans and caravan defences.

wills370
09-30-2009, 03:17 AM
Also there could be some of real life risks like NPC bandits, animals dieing of long journeys or a hungry creature, etc. :p

I would spend a lot on caravans and caravan defences.

I dont beleive the animals would die etc as presumably if yoru transporting them for profit you dont want them to go to market ill etc. So i believe they shall remain healthy by grazing on grass during the time you have to bunker down at night.

And agreed bandits are already functioning in game see new media post (sept). shere his caravan is attacked.

Supreme
10-13-2009, 03:26 PM
Oh you -could- have NPC-cities that on events will be defended by the moderators (like some wow-mobs).

Also: in order to have as many people playing on a single event you could also tell everybody to bring theyre hero + 5 troops or something similar. Dont know if its doable as it does require X amount of connections on the same map but it could be a lot of fun for instance to have 20 (+100troops) orc players go at it against 20 (+100troops) elve players. This would take a lot of coordination and would strenghten the bond between neighboors while encouraging..racial..violence...that jsut doesnt come out right but im sure you get the picture.

sneaky_squirrel
10-13-2009, 03:50 PM
They plan to use "instances", in other words, only 2 players defend a city I believe, but many of these sisges can occur.

Example:
A n B are defending city instance 1 while C n D are defending city instance 2 at the same time.

So if you either conquer or successfully defend a capital city, it will have no effect on the world, but you will get rewards.

GuitarCrazyo
11-03-2009, 09:13 AM
you said "Very beautiful city of Christmas", i wonder why... Natal is very beautiful at chtistmas or the word Natal reminds something from Christmas? Thanks