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Omnicras
08-01-2007, 06:21 PM
Lately I've been replaying rise of legends and the whole "buy a site and get mercenarys" concept reminded me. Will this game have mercenarys and if so how will they be implimented.

Sharku
08-02-2007, 03:38 PM
Mercenaries can be fun, but games usually make them so low priced that they replace other units. Imo I don't think DoF should have any mercenaries. Then again they are trying to make this as realistic as possible and there are always people willing to sell their sword so maybe they will.

Darvin
08-02-2007, 08:36 PM
There are a number of ways mercenaries can be implemented interestingly. One way is to sell them as high performance units with no build time, but a significant cost and limited availability. Another way is to make mercenaries specialist units with no real equivilent in any faction. This gives them a unique role that no default unit can fill (again at a significant premium).

There are other ways to implement mercenaries, but without an intimate knowledge of the game mechanics, it's hard to say which way would best suit this game.

The Witch King of Angmar
08-04-2007, 10:48 AM
I think merceneries should be used early game to raid resource buisnesses.

Darvin
08-04-2007, 11:15 AM
In other words mercenaries should be fast units with high firepower. I think every faction will have at least one unit that fulfills that role well enough, and mercenaries need to be less specialized if they're going to be a significant feature.

The Witch King of Angmar
08-05-2007, 01:44 PM
In other words mercenaries should be fast units with high firepower. I think every faction will have at least one unit that fulfills that role well enough, and mercenaries need to be less specialized if they're going to be a significant feature.

They should remind me of Corsairs that are really fast are cheap except without the bad quality of EA. :D

Darvin
08-05-2007, 06:32 PM
Mercenaries (ie, units from the Inn) in BFME were cheap, but high level, units that could only be built from limited facilities. They ended up being ridiculously overpowered. I feel mercenaries need to be something you can't get anywhere else, but come at a cost premium.

As for Corsairs, they were only fun in mods where they had their stats changed around a bit. In the official game versions, their melee attack was so pathetic that no one used it, so they were only useful for firebombing.

The Witch King of Angmar
08-05-2007, 09:03 PM
Mercenaries (ie, units from the Inn) in BFME were cheap, but high level, units that could only be built from limited facilities. They ended up being ridiculously overpowered. I feel mercenaries need to be something you can't get anywhere else, but come at a cost premium.

As for Corsairs, they were only fun in mods where they had their stats changed around a bit. In the official game versions, their melee attack was so pathetic that no one used it, so they were only useful for firebombing.

Lol. I loved those firebombs. They were really cool, but I like the idea of hiring powerful units from seperate buildings. You should be able to buy these buildings after you have a suffucient amount of resources.

Ryan Zelazny
08-06-2007, 11:33 AM
We are currently debating the use of Mercenaries in the MMO portion of the game. I believe they will appear in the Single Player campaign.

Darvin
08-06-2007, 10:48 PM
The thing about corsairs is that they were supposed to be a hybrid unit, acting as either a shock melee swordsman or a grenadier. The problem was their melee attack was quite average, so there was no point in using it. It was really sad, because in mods that buffed their melee attack to the point at which their versitility was a greater asset than their firebombs, the unit was super fun.

As for Ryan's comment, it still doesn't detail exactly how mercenaries will work in the game mechanics, but I'd imagine that wouldn't even be finalized even if the devs already had them in the game.

The Witch King of Angmar
08-07-2007, 08:02 AM
The thing about corsairs is that they were supposed to be a hybrid unit, acting as either a shock melee swordsman or a grenadier. The problem was their melee attack was quite average, so there was no point in using it. It was really sad, because in mods that buffed their melee attack to the point at which their versitility was a greater asset than their firebombs, the unit was super fun.

As for Ryan's comment, it still doesn't detail exactly how mercenaries will work in the game mechanics, but I'd imagine that wouldn't even be finalized even if the devs already had them in the game.

Corsairs mowed pikes down pretty good.

Darvin
08-07-2007, 12:54 PM
Sure, because pikes can't damage them; corsairs deal no more damage than a Gondor soldier, and are much more fragile and twice as expensive. If you compare the damage corsairs deal to pikes with the damage they receive from any archer unit, it's downright pathetic. In any practical situation, there is no reason to have a corsair on sword mode.

The Witch King of Angmar
08-07-2007, 04:18 PM
Sure, because pikes can't damage them; corsairs deal no more damage than a Gondor soldier, and are much more fragile and twice as expensive. If you compare the damage corsairs deal to pikes with the damage they receive from any archer unit, it's downright pathetic. In any practical situation, there is no reason to have a corsair on sword mode.

Yeah which is ashame. I used them on sword for buildings though.

Darvin
08-07-2007, 05:58 PM
That makes even less sense; their firebombs were one of the most effective anti-building tools in the game. Besides that fact, most players would demolish buildings on the spot; failure to do so handed the enemy the win on a silver platter due to the massive XP and power point bonuses. As a result, in any realistic matchup you'd never get to attack most structures anyways.

The Witch King of Angmar
08-08-2007, 08:29 AM
That makes even less sense; their firebombs were one of the most effective anti-building tools in the game. Besides that fact, most players would demolish buildings on the spot; failure to do so handed the enemy the win on a silver platter due to the massive XP and power point bonuses. As a result, in any realistic matchup you'd never get to attack most structures anyways.

I never thought firebombs really did good on buildings. Just my opinion though and I mostly used them behind swordsmen to light the ground on fire and to damage enemy units.

jap88
08-08-2007, 05:07 PM
I never realized how relevant BFMEII Firebombs were to DoF :eek: :p

The Witch King of Angmar
08-09-2007, 12:22 PM
I never realized how relevant BFMEII Firebombs were to DoF :eek: :p

Lol. Darvin just has his moments on him using logic to prove a point.

Darvin
08-09-2007, 12:59 PM
I can get carried away; point is that in mods that rebalanced them, Corsairs were one of the most fun units to play with, fulfilling the role of a unit that you really couldn't get anywhere else.

The Witch King of Angmar
08-09-2007, 01:48 PM
I can get carried away; point is that in mods that rebalanced them, Corsairs were one of the most fun units to play with, fulfilling the role of a unit that you really couldn't get anywhere else.

What mod did you use for the Corsairs?

PS Darvin I was just kidding around.

Thanks

Darvin
08-10-2007, 02:29 PM
MEMW Balance Mod, of course. It's still available for download on RTSC in the BFME section.

The Witch King of Angmar
08-10-2007, 04:21 PM
MEMW Balance Mod, of course. It's still available for download on RTSC in the BFME section.

Was this mod made before Joker took over? Just wondering.

Thanks I'll have to look that mod up.

Darvin
08-11-2007, 12:17 AM
Yeah, it was made before the takeover, but there were a few updates afterwards.

The Witch King of Angmar
08-11-2007, 11:44 AM
Yeah, it was made before the takeover, but there were a few updates afterwards.

Did this mod overall just try to balance the factions out more?

Thanks

Darvin
08-11-2007, 12:52 PM
It began as a balance mod, but really what it became was a gameplay mod. The pace and nature of the game got tossed up dramatically. The focus wasn't just on balancing individual factions, but the units and comboes within those factions, and the various strategies and gameplay styles.

I could talk about the wonderful changes we made all day, but the bottom line is that it's a great mod.

Puppeteer
09-13-2007, 01:55 PM
Corsairs in bfme2 were weaker than I thought they should be, though I still like the firebombs. Mercenaries would be good though

SPARROW94
09-18-2007, 05:30 PM
I Think Mods Should Rot In Hell

Darvin
09-19-2007, 09:57 AM
Mods are awesome and can breath now life into a game. If you don't like them, that's your business, but lots of other people do like them.

olauwers
09-19-2007, 10:53 AM
What I'd like to see are mods 'Impossible Creatures'-style, where you could shift between the different mods you had instaled and your regular game. That way, you didn't have to uninstall a mod to play another, or to just play the normal game, as it came with the installation CD.

Basicly just a mod-switcher

The Witch King of Angmar
09-19-2007, 01:15 PM
What I'd like to see are mods 'Impossible Creatures'-style, where you could shift between the different mods you had instaled and your regular game. That way, you didn't have to uninstall a mod to play another, or to just play the normal game, as it came with the installation CD.

Basicly just a mod-switcher

Yeah, I always wondered if anyone can do that.

AJP
09-22-2007, 08:59 PM
Yeah, I always wondered if anyone can do that.

Shamefulbannableadvertforindiegametitle I know, but Mount&Blade (http://forums.taleworlds.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=8c1642245203b0fe33c99d102659e9 05&/topic,26287.0.html) does it. It's no RTS though. Kinda.

olauwers
09-23-2007, 05:30 AM
Impossible Creatures does it too, and that is an RTS.

The Witch King of Angmar
09-23-2007, 06:49 AM
Impossible Creatures does it too, and that is an RTS.

Hopefully DoF will have this feature.

Hoenir
09-24-2007, 04:26 AM
I think the way Battlefield handles mods is quite good.

Ryan Zelazny
09-24-2007, 12:31 PM
Hopefully DoF will have this feature.

I believe we will be doing something similar to how Half-Life worked. Where you would run the game with an extension, for example to run Counter-strike you would just make your shortcut link to, hl.exe -cs. That way you pretty much create a whole second game as Counter-Strike and other mods were created using the Half-Life engine.

olauwers
09-24-2007, 12:34 PM
Kinda like what they did for AoE3 and TWC, and for AoM and AoM:LotR?

That'd be nice!

iceblast
09-24-2007, 12:44 PM
it wouldnt be nice it would be... OWNAGE!

The Witch King of Angmar
09-24-2007, 01:34 PM
I believe we will be doing something similar to how Half-Life worked. Where you would run the game with an extension, for example to run Counter-strike you would just make your shortcut link to, hl.exe -cs. That way you pretty much create a whole second game as Counter-Strike and other mods were created using the Half-Life engine.

Good, that will encourage people to try more mods without having to go through all those technical file things.

Hoenir
09-25-2007, 12:16 AM
In the end, this is a question of how to handle game files. A system needs to be established with different folders for each mod and there needs to be a way to "override" the original game files.
Supreme Commander for example offers two ways to do this (at least for unit blueprints): shadowing and hooking. Shadowing is completely replacing a file while hooking means enhancing it(first the original script is executed and then the mod's version with additional stuff).

Kell Aset
03-26-2009, 11:39 AM
Mercs (single ones or entire mercenary groups) if will show up in MMORTS mode, could be units with already aquired level but they perhaps should not be allowed to be able to level up (this is just to have a bad side of hired arms).
Oh and I'm curious if they will be in mmorts mode, can for example humans hire orc/elven mercenaries?

LordSlayer
03-26-2009, 03:23 PM
Oh and I'm curious if they will be in mmorts mode, can for example humans hire orc/elven mercenaries?

Or dragons ... ;)

Andy Joslin
03-26-2009, 05:57 PM
Mercs (single ones or entire mercenary groups) if will show up in MMORTS mode, could be units with already aquired level but they perhaps should not be allowed to be able to level up (this is just to have a bad side of hired arms).
Oh and I'm curious if they will be in mmorts mode, can for example humans hire orc/elven mercenaries?
Mercenaries will be hireable in MMORTS. You may even be able to get a dragon or three.;)

Kell Aset
03-27-2009, 07:49 PM
So is there an advantage of having mercenary troops? I mean are they in any way better or worse than soldiers trained by player?

Ginko
03-27-2009, 08:10 PM
maybe theyll have some sort of special abilities

Andy Joslin
03-28-2009, 03:40 PM
Mercenary troops can be of any race. Also, they'll probably start experienced (better stats than normal troops).

Kell Aset
03-28-2009, 06:03 PM
Thx, it is cool that they can be of any race because it will be a chance to see how other races work when we have control over them and in same time we are fanatically attached to 1 race, I know I will be like that heh :)
Dragons for hire suprised me, they are obviously good thing to have, with their line of sight.

The Witch King of Angmar
03-29-2009, 07:37 AM
I still wish your army could just be of mercenaries and you could get hired and fight for other people.

Kell Aset
03-29-2009, 07:54 AM
If people will be able to transfer money to anybody then You can always announce that You are a mercenary king that for a price will attack designated people.

LordSlayer
03-29-2009, 05:02 PM
Dragons for hire suprised me, they are obviously good thing to have, with their line of sight.

I would like them to be more of the ''I roast you with fire before eating you and all your little friends for lunch'' type of dragon instead of the ''I like flying up here, look at all those small people, they look like ants'' type of dragon.
The first would also probably be better merceneries, especially if you can stack multiple fire breaths (if they have any, that is ;) ) and if you can get royal dragons.

Kell Aset
03-30-2009, 01:36 AM
When we say dragons we can be sure that they are big and strong but I'm quite fine with just a support unit, I don't like "one man army" units that much.

nickson104
03-30-2009, 04:35 PM
When we say dragons we can be sure that they are big and strong but I'm quite fine with just a support unit, I don't like "one man army" units that much.

yup because they get overused and the game degenerates into a one unit rush...

And if people could transfer vast sums of money... like all MMO's there are gonna be sweatshops set up to farm money and sell it for real money...

Nimlot
03-31-2009, 08:29 AM
It would be awesome if i as a player could be a mercenary.. hire my army and me controlling it to anyone who needed help attacking an enemy fortress. would this in any way be possible together with the current game mechanics?

i would love to control a mercenary army in DoF :)