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MrBlack103
08-11-2009, 10:29 PM
I was watching the video and noticed a few issues with the siege towers. Firstly, to me, they seem to be moving way too fast. IMO they need to be at a more "crawling" pace. Is there any particular reason for their apparrent speed? They also seem a bit "jerky" in their movement.
Secondly, I don't see any troops in them, as they are moving. Like the elves' trees of war, I think they should maybe have a few archers up top, as well as some infantry to storm across as soon as the "bridge" is lowered.
The last issue I find with the siege towers is that there is nothing pushing/pulling/moving them. Are there supposedly men inside the lower section wheeling it along? This seems a ridiculous notion to me.

So, my idea of what siege towers should be like is slow, well-armoured beast of war that serve as both a path onto the enemy walls as well as a fighting platform. There should be plenty of time between when the first shots in a siege are fired, and when the siege towers make it to the walls.

Darvin
08-11-2009, 10:38 PM
Is there any particular reason for their apparrent speed?
It could easily just have been tweaked for the video to make it smoother. In any case, values like move speed are easily tweaked and will probably get changed around a lot in the beta.

crex719
08-11-2009, 10:41 PM
I mean to get technical anything with wheels can gain momentum, depending on if its going down a hill or even just through continuous motion.
But yes, there should be something pushing. pulling would be bad because archers could very easily take out the pullers.

Aametherar
08-12-2009, 02:55 AM
We currently know nothing of the battle mechanics, so it's hard to call foul on anything at the moment. I do know they want battles to go by semi quickly rather than lasting a long time for players who can't be on all day. (at least in mmo mode) this may be 1 reason for the seemingly fast towers.

Konstantin Fomenko
08-12-2009, 08:13 AM
Siege towers are really slow in-game, I just watched the trailer - yeah, not sure if that was scripting in some scenario video was taken or video editing, but towers are moving almost twice as fast as they are in-game.

We do have someone pushing all the other siege weapons, but didn`t add it to the Orcish and Human towers yet.

As far as Archers as in tow and having units waiting on top, that will be possible in the near future.

Joseph Visscher
08-14-2009, 06:25 PM
Siege Equipment also slow down as they are damaged and blow up into flames. if you got enough Trubchets and fire archers hammering them you can stopped quite a few of them from leaching on your walls. :P just gotta keep an eye on your gates if there trying to sneak a battering ram attack. :P

Darathor
08-14-2009, 09:53 PM
leaching
latching
But it's cool that you guys are making the game rather realistic that let's people innovate their strategies to fit different situations.

Joseph Visscher
08-15-2009, 11:41 AM
latching
But it's cool that you guys are making the game rather realistic that let's people innovate their strategies to fit different situations.

No, I meant leaching as in holding on not geting off until there nothing left to loot. ;)
Both words work, but leaching works better for the Treant, it just grabs the wall and holds on while elves get up on the wall. :)

The Witch King of Angmar
08-15-2009, 11:58 AM
[COLOR="Navy"]Siege Equipment also slow down as they are damaged and blow up into flames. if you got enough Trubchets and fire archers hammering them you can stopped quite a few of them from leaching on your walls.

Now, will regular arrows/swords be able to damage siege weapons or will they have to be fire arrows or explosives of some kind?

Thanks

Joseph Visscher
08-16-2009, 06:56 PM
Yes some damage types don't effect other types, like normal arrows cant hurt a building, fire arrows can, start it on fire.

Walls cant even be attacked by almost everything except some siege equipment and or other units just like in real life, good luck slashing through that 5 foot thick stone wall with a sword like you see in other games. :p Archers still try to volley their arrows over walls though so they are still effective.

My advice that is historically true is not to destroy the walls but rather capture them with siege towers and ladders and use the walls to your advantage with archers on top of them shooting at everything below behind the wall. you get enough good bottlenecks at the staircases and he wont be able to do a thing about you taking his own walls from him, this is especially useful when fighting Orcs seen as they only have 1 layer and pretty much all of their buildings and army are most times inside( unless the players your fighting against likes building them outside :p there Orcs, they build anywhere.)

Aametherar
08-18-2009, 06:03 AM
Yes some damage types don't effect other types, like normal arrows cant hurt a building, fire arrows can, start it on fire.

Walls cant even be attacked by almost everything except some siege equipment and or other units just like in real life, good luck slashing through that 5 foot thick stone wall with a sword like you see in other games. :p Archers still try to volley their arrows over walls though so they are still effective.

My advice that is historically true is not to destroy the walls but rather capture them with siege towers and ladders and use the walls to your advantage with archers on top of them shooting at everything below behind the wall. you get enough good bottlenecks at the staircases and he wont be able to do a thing about you taking his own walls from him, this is especially useful when fighting Orcs seen as they only have 1 layer and pretty much all of their buildings and army are most times inside( unless the players your fighting against likes building them outside :p there Orcs, they build anywhere.)
:D go orcs, woot \o/ woot /o/ woot \o\!

wills370
08-26-2009, 04:26 AM
Sounds good to me. Would be cool if you could assign more men to a siege engine or engineers etc to which can pull the siege equipment faster to its target but then your men can be more exposed. Ads an extra stratergy to the game if you want your siege to the walls quicker your going to have to pay for it with troops, or you can choose to reserve yoru troops but on the down side your siege might take more of a beating and become unsucessful. Just a thought.


Also with the archers on the walls. I can see that possibly becoming a problem if you bottelneck say a group of swords on the stairway. And then fill the rest of the wall with archers. How will the defender counter that as pikes wont (just guessing) be as affective on stairs and calvery (also guessing) wont be able to go on the battlements either.

all thoose swords just have to hold the position while the archers rain merry hell on anyone who tries attacking them.

just thoughts that crossed my mind.

One idea is that archers have a bonus when firing at your own wall from within the city. So thoose on the wall dont have a cover bonus other than the hieght when attacking down from the walls.. This would enable a more fun fire fight and the possibility of retakign the walls??


feel free to message me on theese points.

Puppeteer
08-26-2009, 05:01 AM
One idea is that archers have a bonus when firing at your own wall from within the city. So thoose on the wall dont have a cover bonus other than the hieght when attacking down from the walls.. This would enable a more fun fire fight and the possibility of retakign the walls??
If the walls have small crenelations on the inward side, then there's no reason for archers to bypass this bonus. Depends on the design of the wall, the defender's archers aren't going to have a bonus just to make it easier. If you lose the outer wall, don't expect to regain it easily.

wills370
08-26-2009, 12:07 PM
If the walls have small crenelations on the inward side, then there's no reason for archers to bypass this bonus. Depends on the design of the wall, the defender's archers aren't going to have a bonus just to make it easier. If you lose the outer wall, don't expect to regain it easily.

I wouldent say get rid of all the cover bonus but decrease it slightly to make it slightly easier to gain back the wall. Otherwise the balance of power would be to great (Im assuming cant say as havent played the batttle system).
It would be a case of cram the ramparts with archers when you capute the wall and the defender dosent have a chance.

Puppeteer
08-26-2009, 12:17 PM
I wouldent say get rid of all the cover bonus but decrease it slightly to make it slightly easier to gain back the wall. Otherwise the balance of power would be to great (Im assuming cant say as havent played the batttle system).
It would be a case of cram the ramparts with archers when you capute the wall and the defender dosent have a chance.

That's the whole point! You can't expect to surrender the outer wall and regain it easily. There's a reason why you're keeping the invaders out. And decreasing the bonus makes no realism sense either.

The Witch King of Angmar
08-26-2009, 05:35 PM
Personally, I think his whole idea is pointless. Archers will just have the high ground and that's it. There shouldn't be all this messing around with bonuses.

wills370
08-28-2009, 05:11 AM
That's the whole point! You can't expect to surrender the outer wall and regain it easily. There's a reason why you're keeping the invaders out. And decreasing the bonus makes no realism sense either.

I agree on the realism point, it would not benefit the game depending on the fight system in place. Being a moderator you most certianly have a better feel for the game etc. So i wont argue with you there (on a side note is damage realistic too on this game? e.g you hvve lucky shot arrows that can go though a nights head for a head shot or kill the unprotected in one shot?, just wondering how far down the realism line they are planning on going with the fight system?)

and i was just making the point so that it was something to think about, i didnt want this game falling into the trap of other games where all you do is rush the wall to win the fight (we all know thoose games). I want it to be a fight to the very last man. throughout the settlement. Not untill someone has the walls.

Puppeteer
08-28-2009, 05:58 AM
Being a moderator you most certianly have a better feel for the game etc. So i wont argue with you there
Just to point out, I only know as much as the devs release officially. I know only as much as the other members, as do the other moderator, it's just we're here to help organise the forum and remove spam/bots. Other than that we're the same :p
But don't worry, they're multiple layers of walls in the bigger castles. The battle's not over until every last man is dead!

wills370
08-28-2009, 01:03 PM
Just to point out, I only know as much as the devs release officially. I know only as much as the other members, as do the other moderator, it's just we're here to help organise the forum and remove spam/bots. Other than that we're the same :p
But don't worry, they're multiple layers of walls in the bigger castles. The battle's not over until every last man is dead!

Oo cool :) am i right in thinking there are also developers on the forums aswell. ITs been a while since i have gave it a real good look, waited for the new forum to be up and running.
and keeping it on subject. That sounds great then :D just like a real fotress and citidel.

Puppeteer
08-28-2009, 01:55 PM
Oh yes, the devs are very active here. Unlike most companies. They offer little gems of info when the post ^^

wills370
08-28-2009, 03:14 PM
Oh yes, the devs are very active here. Unlike most companies. They offer little gems of info when the post ^^

Woo good to hear. That makes a huge difference. Normally the developers never get the feedback of the forums when they make the game. Leaving holes in there game that would have been highlighted etc.