PDA

View Full Version : PATCH # 8 - Balance Part I


Konstantin Fomenko
04-21-2013, 07:54 PM
<img style="padding-right:3px;" align="left" src="http://www.dawnoffantasy.com/icons/newsicon.png" />In our past patches we`ve concentrated on bug fixes, but now we think the time is right to change our focus and rework the game balancing from the ground up. Thanks for our community feedback, and especially help from community moderator Vicious - we are proud to present our new patch - with impressive list of balancing changes. We plan to continue balancing the game next week - reworking abilities, formations, unit upgrades and fixing numerous issues and exploits.

Patch # 8

:::::Major Fixes and Additions:::::
-Changed battalion health display GUI
-Added new Tribal Shaman hero to the market

:::::Minor Fixes and Additions:::::
-Dragons and Heroes heal at half the rate while in combat or moving
-Minor fix to CoOp quest start-up to avoid lag and odd cinematics
-Fixed issue with formations sometimes not working right
-Added several new game moderators
-Reduced Dragons army strength

:::::Major Balance Adjustments:::::
-Mounted unit trample self dmg reduced to 1/3
-Dwarf axeman +50 stamina -20 slash dmg
-Dwarf battler -10 pierce res +5 crush res +5 slash res -50 crush dmg
-Dwarf rifleman +50 stamina -100 hp -50 range -50 pierce dmg +10 pierce res
-Bladestorm +110hp -10 pierce res +25 crush res +35 slash dmg +40 crush dmg
-Enchanter +40hp +50 stamina +15 slash
-Grand master +65hp +20 crush res -20 pierce res +70 slash dmg
-Mounted grand master +140hp +10 crush res -20 pierce res +90 slash dmg
-Ranger +40hp +100 stamina +5 pierce res +5 slash res +5 crush res +50 range
-Mounted ranger +120hp +100 stamina -50 range -10 walkspeed -20 runspeed
-Sentry +140hp +100 stamina +20 slash res +20 crush res +40 slash dmg +10 crush dmg
-Unicorn +150hp +10 walkspeed +10 runspeed +10 slash res +10 crush res +10 slash dmg +10 crush dmg +3 strenght value
-Berserker -10 pierce res +5 slash res -20 crush dmg
-Marauder -10hp +5 pierce res
-Slayer +15 slash res +15 crush res +5 slash dmg
-Goblin prawlers +80hp +5 walkspeed +5 runspeed +70 range +35 pierce dmg +50 stamina
-Impaler +5 crush dmg +5 slash res +5 crush res -1x bonus multiplicator against cavalry
-Impaler warg +90 hp +5 walkspeed +5 runspeed
-Goblin raider +100hp +50 stamina -10 pierce res +15 slash res +15 crush res +5 walkspeed +5 runspeed +30 slash dmg
-Slayer warg +110hp +5 slash res +20 crush res -15 pierce res -20 slash dmg
-Archers +50hp
-Cavalier +20 crush res +5 slash res -10 pierce res +90 slash dmg +10 walkspeed +10 runspeed
-Halberdier +50 stamina +25 crush dmg -1x bonus multiplicator against cavalry +15 slash res
-Foot Knight +120hp +50 stamina +25 crush res +10 pierce res +10 slash res -5 slash dmg +20 magic dmg
-Mounted knight +130hp -10 walkspeed -10 runspeed +10 slash res +20 crush res
-Maceman +50 stamina +10 crush res +40 crush dmg
-Swordsman +50 stamina +140hp +10 slash res +15 crush dmg +15 pierce dmg
-Dragon abilities fireball,firewall +25 stamina cost, flyng +50 stamina cost
-Firebal dmg type changed from 100% fire dmg to 50% crush 50% fire dmg, dmg reduced to 600
-Firewall dmg reduced to 800 range +50
-Royal Dragon +10 slash res +15 crush res +3000hp
-Haunter Dragon +15 slash res +15 crush res +2000hp
-Ice Dragon +10 slash res +12 crush res +2000hp +20 slash dmg +20 crush dmg
-Red Dragon +10 slash res +15 crush res +2000hp
-Green Dragon +10 slash res +10 crush res + 25 crush dmg +25 slash dmg
-All heroes dmg reduced between 10% and 25%
-Elf starting hero +1000hp +100 stamina +10 walkspeed +10 runspeed -5 slash dmg -5 pierce dmg, crush dmg type- changed to pierce
-Human starting hero +1500hp +100 stamina -10 walkspeed -10 runspeed -40 crush dmg +40 slash dmg
-Orc starting hero +2000hp +100 stamina +40 crush dmg -40 slash dmg -15 runspeed -15 walkspeed
-Protector -50 slash dmg -10 magic dmg -10 slash res -10 crush res -10 pierce res +900 hp -12 walkspeed -9runspeed +30 fire,cold,electrical,magic energy res
-Infiltrator +500hp -15 walkspeed -20 runspeed -300 slash dmg +125 magic dmg
-High Knight +100 stamina -5 slash res -5 crush res -5 pierce res -50 pierce dmg +10 crush dmg - 60 slash dmg -1500hp
-Dragonslayer +40 stamina -5 walkspeed -5 runspeed +60 fire res +80 cold res -10 crush res +10 slash res -20 pierce res -100magic dmg +40 slash dmg dmg multiplicator vs dragons reduced
-Warlord -90 slash dmg -5 slash res -5 crush res -5 pierce res +110 stamina
-Dwarf champion -10 walkspeed -30 +1000hp -5 slash res -10 pierce res -5 crush res, dmg type changed to full crush, -140 crush dmg +30 magic res +60 fire res

Hi11Zone
04-21-2013, 09:24 PM
Perfect!! We are on our way!

Brok3n
04-21-2013, 11:00 PM
Looks good. Hopefully path-finding will be a priority soon. Thanks!

Highlander_FTW
04-22-2013, 12:33 AM
i hope we can re allocate skill points, you can imagine that this patch will hinder some of our maxed out armies

thangton86
04-22-2013, 02:00 AM
interesting...

Ithilieninho
04-22-2013, 06:36 AM
I think you've screwed up the hp adjustments. I have several units that are ten times what they used to be, if not more.

My ogres/dragons/heroes now seem weak.

I appreciate you adding new heroes btw. I'd love to see a couple of long range ones (think Legolas in the Battle for Middle Earth-games).

vicious666
04-22-2013, 06:41 AM
Pathfinding, units skill reset option ,and other balancements regards formation bonus and abilities (formation and abilities are under work right now) are already in our schedule plan for next patches.

Goblin on next patches will have hiding ability, their new concept/role is : flankers/hiders, so they got more hp/dmg, res, movement speed, and tribal heal will be improved in next patch.

I will gladly wanna hear opinion of players expecial for units such as goblins,cavalier,maceman,helbardier, rangers/mounted rangers, hero and dragons this are the units that received more attention and improvements

Rebalance of units strenght value are also planned, after that we gonna refine balancements with small changes, than we think to re-do totally the leveling system/attributes, this in preparation for a summer expansion with probably 3 new races, with new ability/concept such as bleeding effects, poison effects,mage class, new big creatures.

mauro07
04-22-2013, 07:06 AM
my knights in the city lost their points, they are level 5 but they hp regen are 0 ...
i see my hero detuned but some unit overboost HP ...
Ty for work..

vicious666
04-22-2013, 07:09 AM
I think you've screwed up the hp adjustments. I have several units that are ten times what they used to be, if not more.

My ogres/dragons/heroes now seem weak.

I appreciate you adding new heroes btw. I'd love to see a couple of long range ones (think Legolas in the Battle for Middle Earth-games).


Pre patch the hp display showed only the hp of a single soldier in the battalion, instead the overall hp of the entire batallion together.

So if you unit was 15 foot knights lev 20, the hp displayed was 2050 (hp of 1 single knight full hp upgraded) instead 2050x 15 = 30750 like is now

vicious666
04-22-2013, 07:20 AM
my knights in the city lost their points, they are level 5 but they hp regen are 0 ...
i see my hero detuned but some unit overboost HP ...
Ty for work..

Is a display bug, if you bring them out from your city you see that res-hp regen is fine, if someone fight you in pvp , stats become return. seams a bug localized in your personal city save.

Overboost hp, is becouse instead show hp of a single soldier, now the hp showed are for the entire soldiers hp in the batallion.

example knights lev 20 full hp upgraded = 38130hp /15 = 2542 hp for soldier (wich is also displayed near the total hp of the batallion)

ZvonimirG
04-22-2013, 08:52 AM
Nice patch, again. I'm happy to see that this game is going in great way. :)

Laradon
04-22-2013, 09:32 AM
So youve made the 100/60/100 Slayers even worse, into 100/75/100 slayers, being the only melee units now that can effectively attack Ranged units with maxed damage. You knew that maxed damage ranged units were able to crack even 95% resist units, especially crossbowman with their accuracy. Hell I even lost several lvl 20 Grandmasters to a force of lvl 5-7 Crossbowmen because they had every point into damage, now probably worse. All Ranged Armies will be seen more often, well except against orcs, cant beat a 100. If you are lucky their Energy runs out, because then they at least reset to 60/75/60 because of the resist bug that makes res values reset to lower stats. You didnt tune down the HP for larger Squads like 24/24 or 20/20 either, which will be a must have if you want to keep the squad sizes that high. As otherwise full 60/60 Armies of orcs will always be stronger as 60/60 armies of anything else. This of course is only doable with slayers atm, because they have a much weaker Battlestr value then the Berserkers, while with this patch finally being the stronger unit. I allready was puzzled after the last change, because I didnt knew anymore what unit would win in a fight slayer vs Berserker. Thanks for making that clear.

You wont even know if those changes do anything, because close to all PVP fights were manipulated by the bug of Battlestr that I pointed out in the bug forum, meaning that we had only Armies Crashing that were underrated. Hell the same lvl 20 unit can have from 36 Str max to 20 to 10 to 3 Battlestr. Either encountering 1 group of archers or 5 groups of archers. Big difference.

Ranged can be too strong if used right, or too weak if used wrong. If you put the points into range It's wrong, as units dont hit **** on ranged. If you put the points into damage it's OP cause they anihilate anything close range with over 1k damage.

My question really is, did you make those units actually fight each other, did you even change the battlestrength values or even include that into your balancing? This seems, yet again, not thought through at all and not practically tested.

But well to your defence i must say, bringing everything from movement to hitbox to speed to Battlestrength to unit count (and increase of survivability with more units due to the regeneration), damage , damagetypes etc. together is awesomely hard. Hope they made you a tool that allows you to fight those units against each other and play around. Because the numbers lie sometimes.

DTACFrostfire
04-22-2013, 11:05 AM
-Minor fi to CoOp quest start-up to avoid lag and odd cinematics

spelling mistake ;)

Brian Shingles
04-22-2013, 11:35 AM
-Minor fi to CoOp quest start-up to avoid lag and odd cinematics

spelling mistake ;)

It's an incomplete fix ;)

DTACFrostfire
04-22-2013, 11:38 AM
lol, hey Brian read my message on the scenario thread thing :)

vicious666
04-22-2013, 01:00 PM
So youve made the 100/60/100 Slayers even worse, into 100/75/100 slayers, being the only melee units now that can effectively attack Ranged units with maxed damage. You knew that maxed damage ranged units were able to crack even 95% resist units, especially crossbowman with their accuracy. Hell I even lost several lvl 20 Grandmasters to a force of lvl 5-7 Crossbowmen because they had every point into damage, now probably worse. All Ranged Armies will be seen more often, well except against orcs, cant beat a 100. If you are lucky their Energy runs out, because then they at least reset to 60/75/60 because of the resist bug that makes res values reset to lower stats. You didnt tune down the HP for larger Squads like 24/24 or 20/20 either, which will be a must have if you want to keep the squad sizes that high. As otherwise full 60/60 Armies of orcs will always be stronger as 60/60 armies of anything else. This of course is only doable with slayers atm, because they have a much weaker Battlestr value then the Berserkers, while with this patch finally being the stronger unit. I allready was puzzled after the last change, because I didnt knew anymore what unit would win in a fight slayer vs Berserker. Thanks for making that clear.

You wont even know if those changes do anything, because close to all PVP fights were manipulated by the bug of Battlestr that I pointed out in the bug forum, meaning that we had only Armies Crashing that were underrated. Hell the same lvl 20 unit can have from 36 Str max to 20 to 10 to 3 Battlestr. Either encountering 1 group of archers or 5 groups of archers. Big difference.

Ranged can be too strong if used right, or too weak if used wrong. If you put the points into range It's wrong, as units dont hit **** on ranged. If you put the points into damage it's OP cause they anihilate anything close range with over 1k damage.

My question really is, did you make those units actually fight each other, did you even change the battlestrength values or even include that into your balancing? This seems, yet again, not thought through at all and not practically tested.

But well to your defence i must say, bringing everything from movement to hitbox to speed to Battlestrength to unit count (and increase of survivability with more units due to the regeneration), damage , damagetypes etc. together is awesomely hard. Hope they made you a tool that allows you to fight those units against each other and play around. Because the numbers lie sometimes.

you seams to reply withouth read.

I am modifyng now the abilities-formations, so cover ability for slayers will add much less, the problem was: orcs where dependent too much from formation+abilities for their res, and stamina is not infinite, so i raised up their base res, but now gonna nerf by 50-70% the res bonus from formation and abilities.

We introduce also a hard cap for res so if we have forgotten something anyway the combination of basic res+formation+abilities will never go upper than 90%


Regards hp for batallion and number of soldiers yes that factor is included in the calculations : for example : hp and dmg compensate lower numbers.

In fact human foot knights have more hp and res than berserkers becouse their batallion are composed by only 15 elements, but they do also less dmg.

Elf do much more dmg for conpensate their lower numbers,also they do more spike dmg, since you can combine high dmg formation bonus+ high natural dmg + active abilities that cause Istant dmg such as whirlwind,
Human have less dmg but more hp/res than orcs and elf
Orcs have more soldier and hp than elf, and more dmg than humans if they use abilities

Also after formation and abilities i am gonna re-do all strenght values



About slayers is a bug of the system, i reported that. is out of my control that. it reset some skill points when res go 100%

Ailric
04-22-2013, 02:02 PM
Very nice patch gentlemen. I look forward to giving everything a go.

Laradon
04-22-2013, 02:14 PM
Well if you change em later, the balance patch should have been withhold until everything is ready. Cant make a unit even more OP for a few days, this will make players leave in frustration. Also ive posted sthg about the regeneration, squadsize etc in the suggestion Forum in your thread. IMO slayers still have way to much HP too, for being 24/24. Let's say 24/24 20k hp max 833 per unit, 16/16 20k hp max 1250 per unit etc. Or you wont be able to balance those units in terms of battlestrength, which should be the basis in the end.

Aermord
04-22-2013, 02:53 PM
When I click on a single unit - a knight for instance - his HP is up near the 10k. This is just for one knight, not an entire group.

When I click on his healing ability, he only heals 100 HP.

When I try to heal my units in a city by paying gold, I am required to pay a very large amount because of the increased amount of HP each unit has.

Seems like something has gone wrong.

Also, all my units are no longer at their max health, not in the city and not in any of my armies.

It also looks like that some of my 'heroes' might have lost stats without being compensated with new stat points to spend.

Hi11Zone
04-22-2013, 10:08 PM
Mounted units are for sure much better, and a lot more useful, but still die slightly to fast..

Laradon
04-23-2013, 12:35 PM
This is ridiculous, you cant just leave the units like that for a few days or even a week. Swordsman have 100% pierce resist too in loose formation with shieldwall up, while elves dont even have 1 unit anymore that can have more then 75% pierce resist. They die instantly to any maxed damage archers, while orcs and humans just get the fire damage.... The game is really in a sick state atm. As I said, do every balance thing at once but dont leave it in such a state.

GPS51
04-23-2013, 12:44 PM
We won't leave it in this state rest assured, we are changing values and expect to see another patch by the end of the week further refining the balancing.

Laradon
04-23-2013, 12:50 PM
We won't leave it in this state rest assured, we are changing values and expect to see another patch by the end of the week further refining the balancing.

Nice to hear, expecting a lot then :) Im sure you get it right.

Konstantin Fomenko
04-23-2013, 09:26 PM
I can reassure everyone - we are patching tonight - with the final balancing patch