PDA

View Full Version : Q/Thoughts on the MMORTS - Why Bother?


Park
06-23-2009, 09:55 AM
Reading about the MMORTS mode of having a fortress and taking land from others, I have to say this sounds exactly like the old AOK Massacre map which were extremely fun though little replay value.

I'm curious are "addiction" factors for people to want to play the MMORTS mode constantly or is it more like a persistent RTS multiplayer like EE2 had to a certain extent?

In a normal MMORPG, you can choose to engage in battle or stick around the safe areas engaging in small talk, trade, or whatever. Would DoF MMORTS be constant warfare? What about quests for people to play together to defeat a computer city? Or players sending hero units to battle each other in a tournament?

Darathor
06-23-2009, 11:05 AM
It don't think it would be constant warfare unless you chose to fight every battle and constantly attack other people, you can choose not to fight a battle like when they are attacking your city, you can choose to just pay tribute instead of fighting.
They said that there will be many quests in mmorts mode that you can do that i would imagine include attacking a computer city occasionally (i know at least that there will be computer cities).
Since it is a mmorts, you could organize things such as a hero tournament and various other things.

Kell Aset
06-24-2009, 11:44 AM
Great thing about this game is that no one can be attacked while being offline, and that that our cities and army (or what's left of them heh) are there when we log in again.
About replay value, well everything gets repetitive after some time, but
we have here few castle designs for one race, different regions will have differently looking castles so attack/defense strategy will be a bit different too. Also they say there will be really a lot of quests etc. so no worries it will be surely interesting.

nickson104
06-24-2009, 11:50 AM
so no worries it will be surely interesting.

You cannot possibly say that until we actually played the game >.> many games seem that they will definitely be good then turn out the opposite...

Kell Aset
06-24-2009, 12:22 PM
That is of course also true what You say but it is my opinion and observation that Reverie team seems to care for their game quite a lot and its hmn well let's say "awsomness" so why so negative? that is usually my thing heh.

nickson104
06-24-2009, 12:32 PM
That is of course also true what You say but it is my opinion and observation that Reverie team seems to care for their game quite a lot and its hmn well let's say "awsomness" so why so negative? that is usually my thing heh.

I personally agree with you but you have to see both sides of the arguement :) :p You have to also realise that also people are often blinded by pride and do not see fault in their work (not saying Reverie do) and also we havent seen much gameplay yet? Most of the screenshots we have seen have been developed specially for the screenshot, usually in the editor or cinematics as I remember?

Either way I personally agree with you, I think Reverie are doing a fine job and the game should be real good :) And if it isnt... We have the Beta stage to tell them what is wrong XD :p

Aametherar
06-24-2009, 12:51 PM
With the levels of customization they're talking about, at the very least there can be custom user campaigns as well as maps, so on both those aspects the entire game can actually be remade by the community, so really we can end up with anything there with a great community. As for the MMO mode, I have a lot of confidence in it, and the devs dedication to making it better through any issues the players decide to address. So maybe it won't come out perfect, but with devs willing to try and a dedicated community there's no reason it can't come close one day. Starcraft wasn't as balanced as it is now when it came out thats for sure, heck it's still mathematically imbalanced towards the zerg if you use them right.

Point is, no games perfect, but it doesn't mean a game cant grow or strive to be better. So as for replayability, as long as there's a strong community and good devs there's always room for the game to grow, become more, and stay replayable for years to come.

Konstantin Fomenko
06-24-2009, 02:25 PM
Park, great to see you on our forums old friend!

Point is, no games perfect, but it doesn't mean a game cant grow or strive to be better.
We are committed to continue working on new MMORTS content for at least 6 months after DoF ships - new quests, mmorts features, unit packs, new regions e.t.c. Some of these updates will be "sold" through micro-transactions like, unit/building packs, the rest will be free.


Would DoF MMORTS be constant warfare? What about quests for people to play together to defeat a computer city? Or players sending hero units to battle each other in a tournament?

All of the above and more:) I think there are a few posts on this forum that go over all the things u can do in MMO mode.

Kire
06-24-2009, 03:06 PM
Park, great to see you on our forums old friend!


We are committed to continue working on new MMORTS content for at least 6 months after DoF ships - new quests, mmorts features, unit packs, new regions e.t.c. Some of these updates will be "sold" through micro-transactions like, unit/building packs, the rest will be free.




All of the above and more:) I think there are a few posts on this forum that go over all the things u can do in MMO mode.

if i understood right, i will have to pay for new quests or new maps if you will make them? What belongs to ”mmorts features" or ”unit packs” and at new regions you get also new types of castels ?
Please explain =).

Kell Aset
06-24-2009, 03:28 PM
You have to pay if You want all those things right away when released, after some time all that new additional bonus stuff (or most of it) will become free, at least it was explained more or less like that once.

Konstantin Fomenko
06-24-2009, 04:11 PM
Original game packs enougth content in mmo mode. And only some of the content released after retail will be paid.

And you won`t be looking at anything pricey, probably 3.95$ for several new units for yourarmy - something cool like some new dragon, or dwarfish mercenaries e.t.c

nickson104
06-24-2009, 04:34 PM
Original game packs enougth content in mmo mode. And only some of the content released after retail will be paid.

And you won`t be looking at anything pricey, probably 3.95$ for several new units for yourarmy - something cool like some new dragon, or dwarfish mercenaries e.t.c

By that do you mean unlock them? or literally buy them... then they may perish and your money is gone...?

I would like to make it clear now though that I wont be buying any add-ons... unless they are included in an expansion later?

Aametherar
06-24-2009, 04:52 PM
Eww I hate micro transactions in games. I just hope they don't alter the balance of the game. Micro transactions for boxed retail games is normally a deal breaker for me. As the guy above me mentioned, expansions are 1 thing but micro transactions are also a big no-no for me.

Alex Walz
06-24-2009, 05:01 PM
Will you have to get all the add-ons to play online? Or will whoever you're playing against just not get to use the add-ons for that match?

Andy Joslin
06-24-2009, 07:42 PM
By that do you mean unlock them? or literally buy them... then they may perish and your money is gone...?
It would unlock them. For example, buy the Dwarven Mercenary booster pack and you can now recruit dwarven warriors into your army. These would not necessarily be superior to the enemys' units, just a unique unit with a unique usage.

Will you have to get all the add-ons to play online? Or will whoever you're playing against just not get to use the add-ons for that match?
You will be able to play against people with addons, but not access the addons until purchasing them (or until they are released). The only reason we would require an upgrade would be a full expansion pack, which would add much more than a small $5 booster pack.

Aametherar
06-24-2009, 09:20 PM
These would not necessarily be superior to the enemys' units, just a unique unit with a unique usage.

That's what I think we all wanted to hear :P. We know people are willing to pay for cool looking units, but end of the day I think we all just wanted to know it won't tip the scales.

Kire
06-25-2009, 07:25 AM
Well i would still rather give 100% more money for game when i buy it than buying those stuff....(unless there will be paladin or new beautiful shape of castle i wont probably buy them anyway even if they have dragons in it cuz at the end you never know how much money you already gave =P)

Well i totally understand you need those stuffs that we buy them because you will be still doing on mmo part and most of mmo (good ones) have set that you have to pay each month for x amount to be able to play. I know your way is better and cheaper than that =), and i will have this in mind and will maybe try to buy some in order to support you, but i would still rather see what i mentioned in first paragraph =).

nickson104
06-25-2009, 08:53 AM
Well i totally understand you need those stuffs that we buy them because you will be still doing on mmo part and most of mmo (good ones) have set that you have to pay each month for x amount to be able to play.

Guild Wars??? One of the leading MMORPG's and has no monthly fees...? :p

Aametherar
06-25-2009, 09:00 AM
Personally I wouldn't mind a few well placed advertisements instead if its just a matter of needing an ongoing income, long as they aren't flashing, don't block out any of the gameplay (IE get in the way) or appear during battles. Kinda like BF2142 how they stay out of the way rather than if you accidentally shoot a billboard it minimizes and opens a website lol!

Park
06-25-2009, 09:34 AM
Great discussion so far.

What I was focusing on were two possible problems.

1) Player Fatigue, i.e. will people be playing this for 2+ hours straight?

I don't know about you, but playing multiplayer RTS and MMORPG are different experiences. In an MMORPG, I don't have to constantly worry about being attacked so the tempo can be relaxed or really challenging. In a multiplayer RTS game, you have to be super concentrated the entire game or you'll lose. Which means after 1-3 hours, I'm usually burned out with a RTS while a MMORPG can be played for days....

Another way to put it is in MMORPG mode, will you need 100% focus and concentration or is it possible to pause PvP?

2) What "addictive" features does DoF have like other MMORPG games?

In a MMORPG, there's a lot of respect and bragging rights involved. Nicer weapons, being part of a guild, the satisfying little level ups. In DoF, what's going to be pushing players to keep playing besides gaining land? Is there a MMORPG story/quests? Forming guilds/alliances? War between humans, orcs, etc. over land? Or are we talking more about a persistent RTS game?


Konstantin Fomenko , four years and never got your real name, lol. Got to say, I haven't touched a RTS game or any PC game in years but this might bring me back.

szebus
06-25-2009, 09:39 AM
... In DoF, what's going to be pushing players to keep playing besides gaining land? Is there a MMORPG story/quests? Forming guilds/alliances? War between humans, orcs, etc. over land?

Yes, there are/will be quests, a story you find out playing as in all quality games and then there are the "alliances" and the battles after what you have to rebuild some parts of the castle.

Kire
06-25-2009, 11:10 AM
2) What "addictive" features does DoF have like other MMORPG games?

In a MMORPG, there's a lot of respect and bragging rights involved. Nicer weapons, being part of a guild, the satisfying little level ups. In DoF, what's going to be pushing players to keep playing besides gaining land? Is there a MMORPG story/quests? Forming guilds/alliances? War between humans, orcs, etc. over land? Or are we talking more about a persistent RTS game?


Lore should be one thing i guess the most important for me beside good looking stuff and the flexibility to be part of the lore=P), and it would be nice that lore could evolve trough players on mmo (i think that this was already suggested somewhere on forums) but i think this would be almost imposible also or at least quite hard =(. Oh and hope this game wont have big addictive features like wow grinding for exaple (tho me strong can resist that =))=P.
And to nickson104: oh yea i forgot =P, than they could just put random donation if ppl would feel they should donate some + like said some advertisement of others.

szebus
06-25-2009, 12:50 PM
... i think that this was already suggested somewhere on forums) ...

Here (http://www.reverieworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=640) I guess and made by You, Kire. :)

Konstantin Fomenko
06-25-2009, 01:07 PM
is it possible to pause PvP?
Yes - 3 ways this can happen:
-If your on a quest (actual quest map), or inside of NPC capital city, no one can touch you.
-If someone attacks your army or a city, you may choose to decline battle and pay them off instead. After you do this you have an option to play in peace for 30 minutes.
-After you play a battle, you also have the same option to stay out of PvP for 30 minutes.

So, for passive player:
- build up your city, explore the world, fight player vs environment and dedicate yourself to completing quest storyline (but it`ll cost ya in battle wave fees to other players)

And for aggressive player
- fight as much PvP as you want (note that fighting will provide you with alot of loot, better than any turtle economy)
- harass all the players around you, get some of them to pay you off instead of fighting you.


Also on the topic of fight or pay off - players will be able to see how many victories, defeats, and pay-offs you have, so some players seeing your an expirience players will choose to pay you off, even if their army/allies are stronger. A different kind of player, seeing the large number of pay-offs, will fight you (stop the bully kinda thing). Also many players would rather form alliance with a player who likes to bully others (as the risk of their army getting involved is that much higher)

Blatant7
06-25-2009, 01:12 PM
This sounds awesome. Improving on what made other RTS and MMORPG games boring or annoying is definitely a good strategy. Keep it up. :)

Kire
06-25-2009, 01:19 PM
Here (http://www.reverieworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=640) I guess and made by You, Kire. :)

nono =P there is just sugested to make strong lore so players can use their imagination and do some sort of RP in mmo part of game, but here i meant that ppl (players) will write further lore (so all would depends on them) (not write literally by them but through their actions aka the RP imagination of my post you linked it could come to live)
(couldnt find the post where i read also this ,i guess if i understood right)

adamater
06-26-2009, 10:30 AM
from what i understand you will not be able to be attacked offline, and you can choose to pay the attacker instead of fighting.

szebus
06-26-2009, 12:53 PM
Yes, it is true and a nice idea, this is not a browser based game, in battle you have to control you're armies.

Joseph Visscher
06-27-2009, 12:12 PM
I'd say one of the most strongest MMORPG elements Dawn of Fantasy has is unit leveling, everything can be leveled up and upgraded including your heroes, the only difference with it from other MMORPG systems is that its not only 1 hero person that you control but rather everything and everyone in your armies. Depending on the tactics of the players, odds are there may be many battles in Mythador that resemble the movie "300" when we see a player with few very high level units, and an rushing newbie orc army with thousands of orcs...

szebus
06-27-2009, 01:29 PM
... Depending on the tactics ... battles in Mythador that resemble the movie "300" when we see a player with few very high level units, and an rushing newbie orc army with thousands of orcs...

Imagine some swordsman fighting an ogre and when they feel hopless, suddenly a small troop arives, to their help, having some archers and a balista lead by a mounted hero and without magic they bring down the monster, but then on the enemy side arive another troop having some magical units and the only defens of the humans are their shields and tactics.

quote from here (http://www.reverieworld.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13397#post13397)

Aametherar
06-27-2009, 01:43 PM
It might be pretty cool if we had a chance to earn artifacts and equipment in battle for our troops also, but that it's also limited literally to 1 unit (like if you find some unique sword), then just add it to your armory over time, and maybe turn a plain swordsman eventually into some high ranking hero with awesome gear...Til he inevitably falls in battle it being an rts and all :P.

Darathor
08-24-2009, 06:34 PM
Why bother with mmorts!?
You have a persistent kingdom that you can customize and have waiting for you every time you log on to it. You grow attached to your kingdom after a while and you begin to love it and care for how well you protect, how pretty it is, its setting, and its layout. After dealing with the desert for months, you will most likely find the forest quite annoying for a while.
There will be quests in mmorts mode that you can do not only by yourself but with others. These adventures will be great for exploring new territory, doing something when there's not much time to play, showing new and possibly exciting lore about the game, for the new friends you might meet along the way, and for the enemies you slaughter while you do the quest.
Fighting against computer and player opponents is fun to do for many people. You get to kill your enemies and loot their corpses for booty! If you are looking for a fight there will most likely be places where people are always fighting, like in most mmo games where there is pvping.
There are also guilds/alliances that you can join to quest in, socialize with, fight with or against in tournaments, and where you can find dozens of friends to do many different things I can't think of right now.
There are just too many things that mmorts gives that would make it a horrible thing if it were cut out of Dawn of Fantasy.
Also, will there be guilds in-game, or would they be created outside of game?

szebus
08-25-2009, 12:43 AM
You sound like you describe a tamagochi. Don't get me wrong, if I did not liked the idea, I did not sticked here anymore.

The Witch King of Angmar
08-25-2009, 12:40 PM
I'd think guilds would be created outside of the game, though I'm not completely sure. :p

szebus
08-25-2009, 12:42 PM
If there will be one server for mmo, where would it be? How will this affect European, North American, Chinese and players from other parts of the word ?

Aametherar
08-25-2009, 12:48 PM
I'd think guilds would be created outside of the game, though I'm not completely sure. :p

You think but arent completely sure about a lot, I swear there's something fishy going on here.:rolleyes: Anyways I hope there is some sort of guild or alliance system in game. In any case i'm supprised there's noone trying to start any yet.

Darathor
08-25-2009, 04:25 PM
There was someone a few weeks, maybe a month, ago who tried to start one, and someone a few months before him, but I haven't really seen any yet.

Kire
08-25-2009, 05:25 PM
Well i prefer just ingame guilds, also cuz of possibility of roleplaying and such + less obligation outside of game and even ingame. Tho i think if guilds are made in game than its more about game depth.
Anyway i am not thinking of joining any guild except if i meet some nice players to make good friends out of them.

The Witch King of Angmar
08-26-2009, 05:44 PM
I like discussions about the game outside of it as well. It will create more depth and ideas about strategies, units, etc.

You think but arent completely sure about a lot, I swear there's something fishy going on here.:rolleyes:

Maybe I secretly am the creator of Dawn of Fantasy and Reverie is just a lie!? Maybe I fool you all with my "maybes" and "perhapses" (spl.?) and really know all the answers. Or maybe............................... I'm just insane. :confused:

Josh Warner
08-27-2009, 10:28 PM
Eww I hate micro transactions in games. I just hope they don't alter the balance of the game. Micro transactions for boxed retail games is normally a deal breaker for me. As the guy above me mentioned, expansions are 1 thing but micro transactions are also a big no-no for me.

The incentive to keep adding content/balancing/bugfixing after the first 6-12 months is non-existent without micro-transactions. From a developer standpoint it's a better system, it gives them a steady income instead of hit or miss expansions that rarely live up to expectations unless they're in the 20USD range, which given the expectations for the amount of content, you're not likely to see much of a return at that price.

a couple bucks a month for new content, which will in turn make them want to keep their current players as well as add more - so they'll keep doing bugfixing/additions/balancing. It's cyclical, unless a game is OUTRAGEOUSLY popular like wc3 or SC, it's not fiscally sound to keep adding content, microtransactions could change that, easily. It's never been tried for a game like this, not properly anyway.

Imo - releasing new units/maps/misc in small packs for a couple bucks, then after they've made a handful of such packs, make a larger one that gives the last few they've made at once at a discount. And just keep doing that. If people want the extra stuff early, they'll pay a little more, but after a while you'll get it at a good price if you're willing to wait. Of course this means that new units need to either not change the way the game works significantly, or be free. if it changes it too much it'd be unfair unless you buy it which forces people not to play or to buy, which many people wouldn't like. Also after very long periods, after each of these larger packs I'd suggest that anyone that purchases the box copy/digital download that they get the extras for free so it's not prohibitive for new players, that'd be a death sentence for the game after a while.

If this game is anywhere near as good as I want it to be, I'd be more than willing to pay 10-15 a month new content if it means they'll keep adding it, and balancing/bugfixing, as it is I spend a hell of a lot more when I'm between games that hold my attention like a good MMO or starcraft back in the day just trying to find something worth a damn. Try 150-300 a month in games I play for maybe a week if I'm lucky, if this is what I want it to be - this game will keep my attention for years.