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kyama
05-27-2009, 08:54 AM
I was just wondering are you guys balancing each race. Or would it be an advantage to pick one race over the other. Reason why i ask if this game is to make it as an esport, it would have to be balanced or are you not interested in making it an esport?

I told people about this game and many say it looks fun, but it would probably not be esport friendly and will be imbalanced.

Alex Walz
05-27-2009, 10:18 AM
It sounds like they've done a ton of work balancing it. That's mostly the reason the eight races have been reduced to three. Each race and region will have its advantages and disadvantages - like men will probably have the strongest walls and cavalry, elves the strongest archers and magic, and orcs the highest population and the most infantry-based at the expense of a strong navy. Then each region will have a varied geography and resource count, so that some areas will be best for turtlers, boomers, etc. But that's common in all RTS games. It is balanced and whichever region and race you pick, you will still have a fair chance against any other region, you just might want to pick them based on your play style for best results.

What's an esport?

Catabre
05-27-2009, 11:06 AM
esport - E Sport, like C&C 3, they play the games competitively and telecast them.

Variety is one thing I love about RTS, but it can be hard to balance, case in point; AoE3.

nickson104
05-27-2009, 01:05 PM
I told people about this game and many say it looks fun, but it would probably not be esport friendly and will be imbalanced.

*unbalanced*
And I believe they couldnt be more wrong... this looks to be one of the most well balanced games I can remember as the 3 races all seem balanced with each other and as far as I can remember there are no tideturning units in it really... even the heroes will be balanced unlike on games such as LOTR and C&C where they could take armies down with ease...

Yes each race has it's differences but the advantages will be countered by its disadvantages... and for a change elven archers WONT be extremely OP and even have the ability to pretty much snipe across the map.

Also if I remember rightly... normal weapons such as swords and arrows cannot harm buildings which was an annoying part of many RTS games where walls were destroyed by a few men hacking away at it with swords...

The Witch King of Angmar
05-27-2009, 03:33 PM
Now that is realism. I never understood then how units should take out buildings. I could see them being able to set fire to it or to pillage it instead of the usual. That would be cool.

LiTos456
05-27-2009, 04:04 PM
Yeah, the races are so balanced I still don't know which I'll pick. So I think this isn't a question, I'm sure we'll spent an hour at the screen thinking about which race to pick.
Can't wait!

Darvin
05-27-2009, 04:23 PM
Balance is a very touchy subject to say the least.

A typical E-Sports Definition:
The variation in strengths and weaknesses of any given faction are subtle enough that the outcome will be reflected by the skill of the player and not the map or factions selected.

Fairly simple; make the factions and maps as varied as you like, but at the end of the day a match should boil down to who was the better player, not who picked the "right" faction. Starcraft is the poster-boy for this definition.

However, it leaves two outstanding omissions. The first is that of player skill levels. It may be that two players of very high skill find the game balanced, but two players of very low skill it may not be. Some techniques may not be available to those of moderate micromanagement, which changes what strategies work and how well they work.

The second issue with the definition is that it leaves open the issue of over-used and under-used units. It may be there is one and only one strategy available in many situations, or that one strategy is viable in all situations. Many people would not consider this balanced, and a perfect example is the mutalisk of Starcraft.

Jean=A=Luc
05-27-2009, 04:39 PM
Yeah, the races are so balanced I still don't know which I'll pick. So I think this isn't a question, I'm sure we'll spent an hour at the screen thinking about which race to pick.
Can't wait!

You seem to have a skewed perception of balance. There's no way to make a valid comment on balance without playing the game and not just 2 or 3 matches but more like a few dozen.

What you're probably saying is that all races seem equally appealing and "cool".

To me DoF doesn't look like a game geared towards e-sports (not necessarily a bad thing) which I don't care much about anyway but we'll see. Also it's almost certain that it will have a decent amount of imbalances when it hits the shelves, the question is how will it progress from there.

As Darvin said balance is a touchy subject and practically all developers have great difficulties with that aspect of their games.

Kire
05-27-2009, 04:50 PM
I was just wondering are you guys balancing each race. Or would it be an advantage to pick one race over the other. Reason why i ask if this game is to make it as an esport, it would have to be balanced or are you not interested in making it an esport?

I told people about this game and many say it looks fun, but it would probably not be esport friendly and will be imbalanced.

This game should never become an esport, actually no game should be that. Ppl are just to lazy to go out and do some real sport or just do some real life stuff. Ppl in games just need to show others how good they are, how they are brave or evil .. how they can own them all and stuff cuz they are lowlife or their real life is a big fail and they are too scared or lazy or whatever to make it better. Sorry i am just an big racist of computer game geeks. They think they are kings in their little imaginary world but losers and nothing (big zero) and empty in real one. And about balancing (sarcasm) no they want to make elves better so i can pew pew all here muahahaha.
As you said in conclusion this game would probably not be an esport but not cuz of imbalances (or at least it shouldnt for a people sake).

Well i will make this post little longer :), i would say about responsibility. It is like designing an ultimate bomb which would destroy half of planet. And there is one Fred (imaginary name =P) who invented it. So here comes the responsibility to protect from the misusing it, so noeone would destroy half of the world, or you can just destroy papers and hide the idea and wait for someone else to figure it out (soon or later there will someone invent it if not him) and make him to decide about responsibility. Because the one who invented the bomb without protecting the misuse he is same guilty as the one who throw the bomb.
As to the topic, computer (not just game) designers should have that in their mind, about responsibility that destroy a children life because soooo cool game came out he couldnt stop playing it and parents didnt know how to react. What if those children would become top scientist who would bring peace to the world or found atlantis or made cure to all of the diseases, what if they would become your best friend? ..... Well as we know the computer disease is spreading faster than a plague and we cant walk on the road with our eyes closed cuz we are part of it, because of our mistakes, our needs cant and must not suffer others even if they think it is gold for them (they all think that if you are obsessed). It is not moral to make money for the sake of ppl who are obsessed of it instead of helping them (all computers stuff, not just games), referring here especially on world of warcraft and those esport games.
Some ppl say blame the parents because they let their children play too long but i say the responsibility should take also ppl who are dealing the drug around (drugs can be a specific medicine or a killer).

I know we live in a greedy and frustrating world where only money count, and i know ppl must get it for their living and i think making games can be a very beautiful, but dont overdo it and make it an esport or in a way that will consume ppl and that is your responsibility.

Sorry for long post and little offtopic but i felt the need of posting it cuz i like this game and the designers seems to be very talented and dont want to become this in a way that world of warcraft or any other did.
And this post is not intended to insult ppl but rather to make them thinking.
Ever heard that theory which says: make ppl busy, make ppl so busy and working so they wont have time to think for themselves and than we can manipulate with them. This count also for our busy/fast/unhealthy way of life, television, computers and other stuff.

kyama
05-27-2009, 04:59 PM
Actually, If a game becomes esport. It will last longer and the community will be larger. I'm not a professional gamer(as in I don't get paid doing it). But I enjoy playing competitive games and also watching professional gamers play. And so what if people make money off of gaming?

Most esport games are very well made. The ones that don't make it is because of balance and are boring to watch. And your post is too long(no offense) and I got bored reading, maybe you should summarize next time...

The Witch King of Angmar
05-28-2009, 07:55 AM
This is getting too hard or just plain too over-complicated to follow. Try to stay on topic.

Mrdash
05-28-2009, 01:14 PM
*unbalanced*

Also if I remember rightly...

That should say "If I remember 'Correctly'", ahhh I love it....you correct him then get corrected yourself XD

And yes the factions seem balanced enough from what has been released, with no "Super Weapons" (i.e. Nukes/etc-C&C, Heros-BfME 1,2,3, etc) and balanced enough Heros.

It doesnt seem to me like the people making this game are biased toward certain factions. (Unlike the BFME guys, thinking that since Elves own in general they should own ingame also.)

Also that post was super long and I got lost after the first paragraph and just skipped to the last paragraph lol. Keep it short, sweet, and to the point.

nickson104
05-29-2009, 01:09 PM
*unbalanced*

Also if I remember rightly...

That should say "If I remember 'Correctly'", ahhh I love it....you correct him then get corrected yourself XD

Also that post was super long and I got lost after the first paragraph and just skipped to the last paragraph lol. Keep it short, sweet, and to the point.

Here in Wales, 'rightly' is the term of speech we use, correctly is more grammatically viable yes but rightly still is a word that suits the sentence :)

And yeah same as me :) I saw the first paragraph... then decided to skip the rest of the post, the first paragraph was far too much of a rant for me to bother to read the rest...
In response, people dont play games all the time because their life sucks... perhaps they like games? simple as... Im perfectly happy with my life; i have plenty of friends, im popular enough to get by, i am healthy and yes i do get out... But one of the things I enjoy most is a good computer game, whether it be RTS, RPG, FPS or others depends how i feel at the time.

Such a rant is justifiable yes but unnecessary and unwanted, in future please refrain as it may offend people.

And to get back on topic.... Yeah the game looks to be well balanced and yes pretty much all developers struggle to balance a game well but that is what patching is for right? :) :p and I have full faith in Reverie, they will deliver for us....

Kire
05-29-2009, 04:17 PM
Well maybe i did too harsh in first paragraph and sorry if offended someone, but the rest of it is more interesting and make you thinking about stuff so you should really read it =P. And yes it was necessary to give the point to the rest part about supporting that.... And nickson104 if ppl play games all the time, that is not only because they like the game.

And about the balance ... balance can never be 100% done and that is fact/rule except in perfect environment (where you have identical shape of land, buildings and soldiers...) and as other ppl said here, as we have seen reverie team done very good job in balancing. Only orcs seems to be ridiculous overpowered on pictures =P (omg the sizeeeee =O).

Tyrael-SF-
05-29-2009, 07:28 PM
I wouldn't be too worried. One thing i found interesting were the Elf's and how they can take on many soldiers solo. But then i read also that they cant build as many units (or they cost ALOT of resources).

As for orcs i doubt they will be OP. They might have really strong units, but sieging them? It wont be as hard its only wood stockades even if they can build many stockades as I've read i doubt it wont be that hard to attack with good siege equipment. Overall this looks really well balanced i can't wait for this game :)

kyama
05-29-2009, 08:41 PM
It's funny, how many people seem to know game is balanced. And I looked all over this site to just see one unit. How do you guys know it's balanced when you don't know units. Unless, I'm missing something. Where can I get more info on units, and buildings?
And is there a replay of a 1v1 matchup between devs out that I can observe?

Darvin
05-29-2009, 09:43 PM
No game is "balanced" during the development process, since the features aren't even finalized yet. I don't know why people would be saying it is right now, because nothing is finalized yet, and it's quite likely that almost every unit stat will get tweaked between now and release.

In any case, I'm sure Reverie will give this issue the attention it deserves, but right now it's too early to think about it. You can't start talking about fine balance when new units or abilities could be introduced next week.

Jean=A=Luc
05-30-2009, 04:47 AM
How do you guys know it's balanced when you don't know units.

They don't know, most have a pretty weak grasp of the concept of "balance".

Kire
05-30-2009, 05:41 AM
Well as i stated in my post i said - as we know - and those info we got it looks more balancing like on other games (like elf archers), so overall it gives a well balanced feeling from far, but it is obvious that the game huge as this one cant be balanced at its very release but the obvious things that makes other games unbalanced seems to be worked out (or at least they are working on them). And i was talking (maybe also others) about balance when the game will be more or less fixed.

nickson104
05-30-2009, 06:24 AM
. How do you guys know it's balanced when you don't know units. Unless, I'm missing something. Where can I get more info on units, and buildings?

Well we know most of the elven stuff through one of the fansites (cant remember which one), Every so often a unit is mentioned in topics but never as a topic as a whole which would be why you havent found them...

Yeah you are right we cannot say for sure whether it would be balanced and as you said it is subject to change but i personally never said it was balance just that it 'seems' balanced, LOTR 'seemed' balanced until you actually played it....

The Witch King of Angmar
05-30-2009, 02:59 PM
True but balance is also achieved by skill level. The good thing is is that in the beta when multiplayer opens up, we will be able to spot these weak spots and correct them.

Kire
05-30-2009, 04:32 PM
My only worries are that they will make magic users (not the one that stealth in) and archers too weak =P, those huuuuge orcs/trolls still seems to be scary and do pew here pew there and whole elf army gone =P.

nickson104
05-30-2009, 04:55 PM
My only worries are that they will make magic users (not the one that stealth in) and archers too weak =P, those huuuuge orcs/trolls still seems to be scary and do pew here pew there and whole elf army gone =P.

I wouldnt worry about that overly much, the elves still boast the strongest archers just not 'overly' so... and also from past topics I remember that mages would have only minor spells and those which could turn the tide of battle were rare...

Kire
05-30-2009, 04:59 PM
I wouldnt worry about that overly much, the elves still boast the strongest archers just not 'overly' so... and also from past topics I remember that mages would have only minor spells and those which could turn the tide of battle were rare...
I wasnt referring to ones that turns the tide of battle (i dont like those =P), but mage with firebolt + some minor extra would say (like kills fat orc in one shot......no just joking =P).

Mrdash
05-30-2009, 06:16 PM
And nickson104 if ppl play games all the time, that is not only because they like the game.

And about the balance ... balance can never be 100% done and that is fact/rule except in perfect environment (where you have identical shape of land, buildings and soldiers...) . Only orcs seems to be ridiculous overpowered on pictures =P (omg the sizeeeee =O).

1.) I only play a game if I like it. Why would you play a game if you didn't like it? I can maybe see someone playing a game they don't like with a friend that likes it. Otherwise thats the exact reason people play games...THEY LIKE IT! its fun, they connect to it in some way, etc, etc.

2.) Of course balance is never perfect. Also size and shape has not a single thing to do with balance. Only stats. So if I was to see a Child and a Giant should I think the Giant is the stronger? I go and knife the Giant with my Ninja skillz, then turn around and, uh oh the child has a Thermal Detonator in my face.



It's funny, how many people seem to know game is balanced. And I looked all over this site to just see one unit. How do you guys know it's balanced when you don't know units. Unless, I'm missing something. Where can I get more info on units, and buildings?
And is there a replay of a 1v1 matchup between devs out that I can observe?

Its cause as you can see many of us have been here for a while. And we have the collected knowledge (Memories) of different chats that have gone on. Not everything is done under that type of Thread Topic like said above.

Kire
05-31-2009, 04:23 AM
Damn you ppl you took my orc jokes literary =P, and you missed the point at 1., tho life is not so simple =) and you missed the point of playing all the time and not just playing it.
I dont say ppl shouldnt play games or anything like this, my point is that all time (aka hunger for game) or close to this playing games shouldnt be supported and that is point of my first post if you ppl would read it actually and not just complaining that you are not the tipe that says there, you have life blabla......
I just did a general conclusion of behaviour of the "hardcoregamer" and did not say any of you or anyone here is. I wanted just a start to prove the point of those paragraph lower. And i did that to point out esport and with it some other and similar stuff too. So if you make any more post about that please read the whole paragraph because your posts are wrong and pointless crying about something that i havent said.
And it is polite if you are qouting or referring to tha that you at least read whole thing. (sorry i just needed to clear things up not trolling/spam a post so this is my last post about it)

Esculas the Mighty
05-31-2009, 08:37 AM
Damn you ppl you took my orc jokes literary =P, and you missed the point at 1., tho life is not so simple =) and you missed the point of playing all the time and not just playing it. I dont say ppl shouldnt play games or anything like this, my point is that no life or close to this playing games shouldnt be supported and that is point of my first post if you ppl would read it actually and not just complaining that you are not the tipe that says there, you have life blabla...... I just did a general conclusion of behaviour of the "hardcoregamer" and did not say any of you or anyone here is. I wanted just a start to prove the point of those paragraph lower. And i did that to point out esport and with it some other and similar stuff too. So if you make any more post about that please read the whole paragraph because your posts are wrong and pointless crying about something that i havent said. And it is polite if you are qouting or referring to tha that you at least read whole thing. (sorry i just needed to clear things up not trolling/spam a post so this is my last post about it)

be careful round here bro :D

Puppeteer
05-31-2009, 11:02 AM
Writing coherently might help.
We all know that this game is incredibly unbalanced. Admins/Devs will have far too much power... :p

Blatant7
05-31-2009, 12:22 PM
From looking at the trailers and info, I'm pretty confident this game will be balanced. Every faction will most likely have advantages and disadvantages relating to the kind of creature they are. For example elves would have strong archers but weak cavalry, or orcs would have weak infantry but other strong units.

Plus, one of the reasons they're running a beta is to sort out balance problems. So I'm not worried.

Edit: Sorry, other people have basically said the exact same thing I'm saying.

Jean=A=Luc
05-31-2009, 12:30 PM
I only play a game if I like it.

This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. :confused: What's next, "I only drink water if it's clean."? Pfff, new kids.

In my time when all you knew about a game before buying was what you read on a box or had heard from other people, if the game turned out be "not so great" we were still expected to play it rather than let it, and the money spent on it, "go to waste".

Just like if you buy a whole pack of ice cream and don't quite like the flavor you would still eat it, you wouldn't just throw all that ice cream away. It was the same with games.

Back in 1982 my parents bought me an original Namco's "Pac-Man". I hated it, I found the gameplay stressful and frustrating (constantly on the run from the ghosts) and the 'wakka, wakka' sound gave me headaches. Nevertheless my mom made me finish 5 levels each day during summer brake because "They had bought me the damn thing and I was gonna damn well play it". It was the worst holiday season ever but it taught me about values and discipline.

The spoiled kids today get everything handed to them on a silver platter plus they get to be picky about what's on the said platter. It's a disgrace.

nickson104
05-31-2009, 03:25 PM
Indeed jean, If I get a game and I dont like it I will still play it for a while so it isnt a waste of money and also try to find a friend who will enjoy it to give it to, an example of this is Mirrors Edge, it was a good game it just didnt really grip me... i got through 5 levels and decided i couldnt be bothered to finish it and just gave it to one of my friends in exchange for one of their games

Kire
05-31-2009, 03:50 PM
Writing coherently might help.
We all know that this game is incredibly unbalanced. Admins/Devs will have far too much power... :p

This is soo true and made me laugh =P, well they should have limited food production so they will have to choose between doing DoF stuff or go eating.... tho they would always choose go eating or they would starve to death, in this case they could not use their powers.
What do you think of this balancing ?=P

The Witch King of Angmar
05-31-2009, 08:58 PM
I could see how that would work as a siege tactic. That would be pretty cool but at the same would add more thought to your units in the sense that while you may have the resources to hire them you may not be able to feed them (Ex: calvary because you need to feed the horse and soldier.)

nickson104
06-01-2009, 10:09 AM
I could see how that would work as a siege tactic. That would be pretty cool but at the same would add more thought to your units in the sense that while you may have the resources to hire them you may not be able to feed them (Ex: calvary because you need to feed the horse and soldier.)

Lol how about trolls? :p hehe... that would be so hard to feed them... then again.. if they go hungry they will help themselves to a few orcs :p XD

The Witch King of Angmar
06-01-2009, 12:40 PM
They already do that in the game I think.

Mrdash
06-01-2009, 03:22 PM
@ Kire: I didn't understand most of that sorry. Use more periods and such and maybe next time I'll try harder to understand.

@ Jean & nickson: I only BUY a game if I think its good enough. I don't spend cash on any games unless I know for sure they will be good. Theres plenty of games I wish I had but I just don't have the cash to spend on them, so I only buy ones that I'm sure of.

I have made a few mistakes however. Spider Man 3 for Wii was one of them lol.

nickson104
06-01-2009, 03:51 PM
@ Jean & nickson: I only BUY a game if I think its good enough. I don't spend cash on any games unless I know for sure they will be good. Theres plenty of games I wish I had but I just don't have the cash to spend on them, so I only buy ones that I'm sure of.
.

I too am limited for money, I have to plan which games I get well before I get them... I play what I think will be good and what matches my playstyle and such :) At the moment I am thinking about buying Dynasty Warriors 6:Empires and The Last Remnant :) perhaps the Godfather2 despite it's reviews...

Kire
06-01-2009, 08:47 PM
Please stop quoting those post cuz it makes hard to stay on topic than and topic is balance, i just made that post at start cuz original poster mentioned esport and that kind, so if you doesnt have to say anything about balance but rather to those posts than dont for the topic sake, its just for reading and than thinking about it and not for posting new threads about it (just make a new post and dont ruin this one if you would so want to discus about it). Focus on balance please.

Edit: and Mrdash i couldnt help myslef sorry....(about the statement that says ppl play games because they like them) You know 13 year old kid also said he likes smoking so thats making him right to do that? ... you know my first post is about responsibility we should have and maybe you should give it a try and read it whole (ok that i just threw ya for thinking not posting about).

And about orc balancing i think they are huuuge overpowered, if you firstly look and their food sistem discused uper bit, if you dont need 1 or 2 trolls you can just feed and army with it and that can probably rise also their morale and one more thng .... how does orcs reproduce.. at least they can have the biggest army that means they should have good sistem about it. I didnt see any orc female so they come to life by magic ?? Thats than the most powerfull magic =OOO making whole new race with it makes it overpowered... even elves dont have so powerful i guess =).

nickson104
06-02-2009, 01:37 AM
kire... you havent been here long.. but if you had, you would have noticed long ago that topics generally go very offtopic, after a while we reign it back on topic for a few posts then onto another topic again...

No-one has mentioned 'breeding' of armies before... and it really isnt something that would 'really' be an important part of the game... And no orcs arent born by magic are they? :/ :p

Kire
06-02-2009, 05:01 AM
well at least you can see female at elves and you can come to a conclusion =P, but at orcs there is nothing really or it is orc vs orc ?=P, well at lotr uruk hai came from combining orcs and goblins so orcs vs orcs (male) might also work ...... than one lay eggs into earth and wait till the grown up orc or mutated orc-troll jump out ?=P

Puppeteer
06-02-2009, 10:36 AM
Tolkein orcs are created by mutating existing races, though it remains to be seen exactly which race is used or what the process of mutation entails. Breeding isn't necessarily that important, perhaps they're asexual or are like plants, having the reproductive organs of both sexes, such that the concept of gender is not applicable to orcs. Dwarven women are also controversial and debatable.
I don't think it'll be a problem. Orcs' vulnerability to missiles and lack of decent, consistent armour might be one of their weaknesses, compensated slightly by their thicker skins. I'm sure it'll be fine. So stop worrying.
And Kire, if you didn't want people to go off-topic, what were you doing posting it in the first place? It wasn't that important in the first place.

Kire
06-02-2009, 10:57 AM
Yes i know, if i were able to turn back time i wouldnt post it, but my first was not offtopic but other those who didnt read whole post made it offtopic =), or i just didnt say clearly in that topic o.O that would be also posible (tho i was quoting esport that he said and hopes that this not become an esport)

Jean=A=Luc
06-02-2009, 12:57 PM
I think now would be a good time to announce that my post about my mom forcing me to play Pac-Man was a troll, I hadn't even been born in 1983.

I hoped to get moar lulz out of it tho. :(

nickson104
06-02-2009, 01:00 PM
I think now would be a good time to announce that my post about my mom forcing me to play Pac-Man was a troll, I hadn't even been born in 1983.

I hoped to get moar lulz out of it tho. :(

We are not amused.... hmmm I must find a lolcat for that line :)

Mrdash
06-02-2009, 03:03 PM
I think now would be a good time to announce that my post about my mom forcing me to play Pac-Man was a troll, I hadn't even been born in 1983.

I hoped to get moar lulz out of it tho. :(


Lol and I thought you were serious. I loled at you enough in RL. Seriously I was cracking up...seriously.

Although I would consider someone being forced to play a game they didn't like as different from what I was talking about. Dunno why, just cause maybe lol. I found one flaw though. People who test/play games for a living will play games they don't like too much. Take EGM magazine. They play piece of crap games all the time (Drake and Josh the game?, My Little Pony? Good Lord have mercy).

To stay on topic...Just because one faction might have better armor or stronger weapons doesn't make them OP or unbalanced. Things like the weapon triangle (Like sword>axe>spear>sword or Wizard>Knight>Archer>Wizard) or sacrifices (Like has a stronger attack but weaker armor).

So orcs might be more brutal and even do more dammage, but they might have less armor or attack slower.

nickson104
06-02-2009, 04:32 PM
So orcs might be more brutal and even do more dammage, but they might have less armor or attack slower.

I think more like, they will hit hard and fast and kill mainly while the foes are disorganised and can regroup. They should rely more on killing the enemy before being killed themselves :)

Also question... are orcs effected by morale? After all... the savage beasts do not know fear... therefore morale does not apply...

Kire
06-02-2009, 07:19 PM
Well even savage beasts know fear... all living creaturess knows it so... =P, he can get morale like mother defending their children =P but in this case father tho orcs dont have female.... bdw it just pop into my mind about lotr orcs ... thy become by mutating and torturing other races, what if they did that to female, would it became female orc ?=P , i havent saw any female orcs in lotr =( or they become male with mutating or they become neutrum? I am really interested about lore of orcs here in this game cuz its mystified and if they dont want to repeat lotr or warcraft or anything they need their own =P. (female orc =troll, male =orc ?=P)

Mrdash
06-02-2009, 08:57 PM
If it was so then Females would e so totaly more ownage than the males. XD