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View Full Version : PvP Deterrent?


OrlandoKev
04-22-2012, 03:38 PM
In my opinion, leveling squads is very time and effort consuming and to just go into a pvp battle with a very good chance of just losing squads all together, seems like a big deterrent to even pvp at all. Especially for new players like myself, spend a week or so grinding quests just to get a couple levels on troops, get attacked by a experienced player, lose those squads and basically have to start all over leveling squads again. Have you considered maybe the squads losing a level when they die but not having them lost completely? Lvl 5 can easily be replaced, but wow what about how much time would have been put into a lvl 10 or higher. (heck getting to lvl 6 is a chore, lol) Perhaps in addition to a squad losing a level if it dies, have a substantial gold fee to revive the squad as well, that would make cause for a continued use of resources once city and army is built.

I was given a dragon as a bonus for purchase of game, he as well got slaughtered in my first pvp battle, really sucks that i can never replace that "promotional dragon" without actually buying the game all over again..... I suspect the "average" player would throw his/her hands up and stop playing, which obviously is bad for business.

Seems very counterproductive for a player to spend so much time attempting to level troops and dragons just to see them "gone forever" after 1 lost battle. Even in a won battle, odds are you are going to lose some squads...

Commander
04-23-2012, 01:04 AM
I agree. And I think, dragons should not be allowed in such battles . They are too strong . Can you imagine, If I'll take 4 dragons to battle :) ?

I was given a dragon as a bonus for purchase of game, he as well got slaughtered in my first pvp battle .
Btw , in the description is written, that it can't be killed :) .

bonedripper
04-23-2012, 11:27 AM
So what you like it too easy.. too easy = booring! True , sometimes is annoying to grow your army and get it killed it happened to me too , 3 times! So that's why when i battle i try to put all my critical wounded squads to a safe place to dont get them killed... You want to dont loose your squads? Then become a better commander :) Also try to use your dragon more so you don't kill your men and your dragon can kill lots of enemy soldiers easily if you know how to do so, if you are new maybe you dont like the idea but lately you will know what im talking about

aramsm
04-23-2012, 03:52 PM
I agree with bonedripper. The thing is: after a battle I want to feel the sensation that I caused some damage to my enemy, or he caused some damage to me and I have to rebuild every thing again. If my troops just stay alive, a battle will lost some sense for me since Im not only doing that just to win but also to provoke some change. I know we dont have cities to conquer or something like that, but I hope some day we'll.

And after you built your city, make a new army and level it up is easy and fast. I dont suggest to do quests, since you can only use 20 units. Do battles on view mode and pvp battles; your armies will win a lot of exp.

Also, Commander and Orlamdo, level is not such important thing. Why? Because your army has a rank based on numbers and level, you can only fight with armies with the same or closer rank. This means that if you put too much effort on lvl, you will only be able to fight against high level armies, wich is something rare to a player have it. In other words, as much as your army lvl, more rare will be to find pvp battles; at one point you will have to retire your army because it is too experienced to find any opponent. If no troops die, this will happen more often if veteran players stop playing the game and you cant fight against new guys. Its the same for the "dragons" case. If you make an army with 20 dragons, you will only be able to find another army with the same strenght that is able to kill those dragons army. But probably you wont find any battle since most players have low armies, and your dragon become useless, like mine was ^^ (that was why I didnt care when you killed him). After doing so many quests, coop sieges and pvp, you will have many crowns that will alow you to buy a lot of dragons and other especial units easily.

___
Since Im already here let me give a suggestion: I hardly loose any battle and you Orlamdo, was the first guy that defeated me in siege defence. That is most because players dont focus on armor. I suggest to new players to focus one type of unit on armor only and use them as tanks. Believe me they will be deadly even if they dont have much dps. They will stand their enemies' attacks and kill them ^^.

Commander
04-24-2012, 02:28 AM
Yeah, yeah . If i have 15 squads and a dragon , I can easy get in to battle against enemy with 10 squads and 2 dragons . It's not interesting .

OrlandoKev
04-24-2012, 02:29 AM
You both make valid points regarding gameplay but there is alot you are not taking into consideration, your view point is that of a person who prefers mostly pvp gameplay however as can be seen on any major mmo, pve servers substantially outnumber pvp servers as a larger percentage of players prefer pve gameplay, leveling etc with a mix of pvp. This game was designed the ability to level squads of troops to be able to customize them with different skill sets to allow for more strategy options for players to choose from. Buy a army, go pvp, buy replacements, go pvp again etc well that would be a basic much more simplified game to create, nothing really special about it, just another single player rts with a multiplayer battle option. However from what i can see DoF has/is trying to create a well needed mmorts and in my humble opinion have come closer to laying the groundwork for such than anyone else. Players who spend countless hours/weeks/months grinding out levels of troop squads will either a) avoid pvp (and miss out on the true strategic gameplay, get bored and move on) or b) lose "all" the effort they put into their squads in one or two battles, and think, wow i just spent X amount of time gaining a couple levels on my troop squads and now i have to start completely over? Replacing lvl 5 squads is quick and easy, leveling squads beyond level 5 simply takes ALOT of time and effort, only a very small percentage of the gamer market will be willing to deal with weeks/months of effort being able to be lost in a single battle. I could probally replace 100 lvl 5 squads in the same time frame it would take me to achieve lvl 6 or 7 army and no telling how much time it would take to achieve a level 10 or greater army, losing a level on a squad and having to spend a decent chunk of gold to perhaps revive that army at least presents the player with a realistic option of putting in the effort to regain the lost level vs the idea of spending weeks or longer trying to replace what he already spent weeks/months to gain. ( i am not referring to heros or dragons, that is not what this topic is meant to be about, but instead referring to the amount of game time invested to achieve levels on squads of troops and willingness of majority of potential players to risk all that time and effort for potentially one battle) This is also not about me wanting the game to be easier or upset i lost a couple squads etc, i am in love with the idea of this game and have been waiting a long time for good mmorts, i want to see it survive and thrive so that i might possibly get years of enjoyment playing, and in order to do so, it has to appeal to a majority and have capability of retaining a solid percentage of gamers. Game developers will either agree or disagree with my thoughts on the topic, i am not your average player, i will most likely stick it out regardless for some time, however i dont personally believe the average player "will".

Commander
04-24-2012, 04:44 AM
I agree with you. But I want to say , dragons violate a quality of this game . I like battles between opponents , but not in this game .

aramsm
04-24-2012, 06:35 PM
Yeah I forgot about PvE indeed, most because its not challenging. If we indeed had a good PvE and we could also have quests for certain levels. You are right to say that because this would be a unique situation since that in single rts we could load and do again when we fail, but in online mode we are not alowed.

Taking this in consideration indeed paying to revive your troops could be a solution. Or even paying to level more than level 5.

maxclo
05-04-2012, 01:34 AM
Hi all,

A agree a lot of things in both of your thread, I just want to add one thing : In pvp between army or city, you 've the choice to accept defeat paying a little amount of gold or units :)

In fact if you've critical units (leveling 10) and if they are near death you just have to accept defeat to save them.
I do that often for saving my units, i prefer paying to heal them that paying for having new level 1 units.
For exemple I do that when Arasm attack my city for saving 6 units of great master level 10, I pay 800 gold, I think it was a good deal no ?? :p
Another exemple yesterday I made a PVP against Konstantin, I lost the PVP and I lost only two units because the game caculate a too big amount of dead im my army, so the game help you to save your army too.

I lost yes, but it's a game, nexte time I'll win !
(when you play a lot of pvp you often win and you often lost; equivalent strengh of armies allow each time you to win ^^)

See you all in game !

Max

aramsm
05-06-2012, 12:47 AM
Hey maxclo ^^, hope to see you in the battlefield soon.

Yeah, indeed you have options to quit etc, but it would be nice if they add a temple building or a priest that you can buy on Market for some crowns, and then you could ressurect last 5 dead unit for more crowns (according to their levels, and only one ressurect maybe), Idk. There should (and will) be more things to buy on market.

Rudedawg
05-06-2012, 01:58 AM
Reading this thread is giving me second thoughts about even trying the game.

The Dev's need to find a balance - yes I want a challenge, but I also want to feel powerful and not completely "gutted" if I lose a battle and lose all my troops.

I also do not want a part time job to have to replace troops.

nuno77
05-06-2012, 08:54 AM
Reading this thread is giving me second thoughts about even trying the game.

The Dev's need to find a balance - yes I want a challenge, but I also want to feel powerful and not completely "gutted" if I lose a battle and lose all my troops.

I also do not want a part time job to have to replace troops.

try the game, then you will realize your concerns don't make sense as your basing your views on it upon knee jerk reactions of newbies like myself.

there are already systems in place to insure balance, there are AOE heals and self heals to keep your units alive if you know what your doing, and replacing/training units is the END GAME of this game since once you build your city there is nothing else to spend resources on.

and no one is forcing anyone to pvp, you can turtle as much in this game as you want to, taking your time to level up as many units and armies (if my memory serves me right, the limit is 7 x 60 cap armies plus 90 cap in the capital) as you feel like it before risking them in a pvp match.

Konstantin Fomenko
05-07-2012, 10:03 AM
I`ll second that...

I didn`t reply in this post before, as anyone who played DoF for more than a day would know how PvP works, and that all of these "new player" fears about PvP don`t have any merit.

Just to include a few facts to counter what you might have read in this post:

-After start-up period (2 hours of play) player will have between 8 and 12 military units

-At any point before or during PvP match - player can surrender without loosing any units, or only loosing what he lost so far

-If even 1 unit in battalion of 20 is alive, player can heal that battalion - for free

-PvP system ONLY allows armies of the same strength or weaker to attack you

-Dragons are immortal until level 8, so even if your started Dragon dies, it resurrects.

Ghost
05-07-2012, 11:57 AM
PvP is incredibly low risk in this game. I arranged a PvP (note I said arranged as it's incredibly rare that anyone actually attacks you out of the blue, which is actually a complaint of mine but that's off topic) lost the battle and had my whole town and army torched.

Within an hour and a half, I had rebuilt a good sized army and repaired about 75-80% of the buildings in my town before I logged off. The next time I logged on, after a half hour of repairing and building units, it was like I was never attacked. If anything I would like to see higher consequences of losing PvP, but I understand I'm in the minority there.

aramsm
05-08-2012, 05:58 PM
If you guys remember the beggining of the post I also said that (PvP is low risk) and indeed, Rudedawg, its true that you can rise up your army faster, and as nuno77 said that is all what you have to do with your resources when you finished build up... And maybe that is why I think we could have a ressurection building, but that wasnt the point.

When we think about pvp and rising an army indeed there is no much looses. But what OrlandoKev was complainning about is when you level an unit before level 10 and loose it, also he was thinking more about PvE not PvP. I said that if we had a harder AI/Quests/Mobs we should have a system that allows us to revive dead units, since in most singles we can re-load the game and start over, and here we cant and we would loose our high level troops. But I also think that this should be very expensive and only allowed once per squad. But honestly I didnt find dificulty doing PvE and dont think it is in my concern list, just a thought.

nuno77 you said we can have 7 armies right? Why I can have only 6 =/

@Rudedwag, I have to be honest with you: you will find some issues and bugs in the game, still I can have fun playing it if I find an opponent. You have to think what are you looking for on it. This game can have some bugs and lack of some content, but its siege system is really fun, staff are very competent fixing the game and they dont stop improving it and comunity is very friendly, so far the friendliest comunity that I have ever found in a game. Its pretty enjoyable playing it when you have someone to play with you.

Konstantin Fomenko
05-08-2012, 11:35 PM
if I find an opponent.

Once we are done properly polishing the game, and ready to market it this summer - PvP should become more of a daily thing. DoF was always meant to be persistent PvP game.

vicious666
05-29-2012, 02:02 AM
system is perfect like is

when i bring my level 10+ troops in pvp, i risk a lot. if i am going to lose them i am forced to give you win. just for not lose such troops delivering to you 10-15k resource.


system is slow, sure. but otherwise pvp become a meaningless spam of units lev 5.

Zekarde
05-30-2012, 08:11 PM
I could see people not realizing it, but you can flee the battle at any time; though you might have to pay them off. Ultimately you can choose to throw your army at someone you know you can't beat and break apart in the wind, or let it go and keep your men alive. Many times if people with dragons are about to lose one, even if they are set to win the battle they will surrender rather than have it die.

I have also paid off enemy forces a number of times when I was not at all prepared to fight even though I might have won some of them, ultimately its just another tool you can use to defend yourself.

Mordeth_kai
06-22-2012, 01:39 PM
Honestly, if it means more people queing doing pvp I'm all for allowing units to revive, it would also give ppl a reason to lvl units past 5 for pvp.

For heros and dragons, might I suggest limiting the purchase of them to 1 per town ( 1 of each dragon, 1 of each hero, etc.) and simply allow them to be revived at a gold fee, maybe a small wealth fee in addition to gold for hero's and dragons. For myself I have no desire to blow money on something I'll just lose, but if they were permanent I would be much more interested in having them in each town.

As for the argument of it reducing the challenge, it depends on which challenge you refer. The actual challenge of pvp battles would not be hindered by this, but the over all challenge of the game itself would be in the sense that you would have to grind out those lvl's again, but how many people bother lvling troops beyond 5 before doing pvp? Probably only the 1st one or 2 match's. I will definitely concede the point of satisfaction from knowing you caused real damage to someone, especially if they lost a highly lvl's dragon or hero that they payed real money for, or the hunter dragon that you only get once, but that's because I'm a sadist, not sure if sadism is conducive to this game tho.

crystalmage1234
09-14-2012, 06:54 PM
as far as the ressurection issue is concerned. If they do allow for resurection at a later date. I would make it a feature available threw the market. So it costs wealth/influence. So it's the kinda thing you can save up your points for in an emergency if you lose a unit you really don't want to or some people will whip out their wallets to buy back their favorite units which from a developer stand point could add extra revenue. This game is after all a for profit venture not a charity. If they do go that route. After each battle it should show which units died and give the option to ressurect them. Wealth price may vary based upon the strength of the unit and if they don't have enough wealth/influence they should have the option to buy more wealth/influence on the spot.