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View Full Version : What should happen to Dragons when they die?


Joseph Visscher
01-09-2012, 06:33 PM
Last poll worked out, but now we have inflation of dragons so its time for another change and another poll. lets clear the slates here.


Currently, if Dragons die in battle they do not really die, they just lie down until the end of the battle and get resurrected/respawn after battle to be used endlessly like your town's Hero, but there skills and levels are reset.
This has sparked much debate with these two main augments on both sides:

1. People have complained about losing a dragon that they just bought and lost a total of 10$ in wealth purchased.

2. With endless lives Dragons can be suicide machines rushing into battle to cause as much damage as possible before dying, this promotes reckless commanding without much player skill involved to be victorious. it also spawns a greater unfair advantage to players who can not afford or have the time to get a Dragon. With accumulating wealth due to victorious armies using dragons they are able to buy more dragons making Dragon Armies that can not be lost, they can lose, but don't die off.

3.New Additional Augment in 2012: Inflation of Dragons.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation

Dragons' population has seen 100% inflation rate with no way to deflate the population as they can never die. The population of dragons is simply exploding and many players have dragon armies that are immune to any sort of actual loss in pvp battles.



Possible changes to dragons include:



#1.
Dragons Respawn if level 5 or less. After the dragon gets to level 6 it changes to a dragon that can die and wont ever come back.
Dragons will be Buffed in higher levels. Higher level Dragons will be Epicly strong and be able to turn the tide of battle earning you more Wealth, but if you lose him after level 5. hes gone forever. Event Dragons will receive massive buff and be killable as well, but they will return every year for that season, Haunter Dragon for Halloween and Ice Dragon for X-mas.

Possible addition to #1.
The Loot from Players' dragons (not npc dragons from Sssilistra), when they die, will give Wealth/influance upto 50-75% of what the dragon is worth. This means if a royal dragon dies, the person who wins the battle earns 60-90 wealth from the dead dragon and it is gone for ever. This also means the enemy can profit from your loss and adds a element of gambling in bringing dragons into battle.
Workers will be banned from corpse looting dragons and only the winner(s) of the battle will get it after battle. We may add a tick for Dragon's Level to effect the wealth effects so a level 60 will give alot more wealth than a level 6 (seen as level 5 and lower dont die...)


#2.
Keep it the way it is. If he dies, all levels and skill reset, start over at level 1, lose all skill! Lower leveled dragons will be weaker over time. Warning: this option has effects of 100% inflation rate as dragons will never die and their population will forever increase, dragons will not be rare but very common.

Joseph Visscher
01-09-2012, 07:19 PM
This time Dev's vote's count for 5 votes :P Konstantin what do you vote for? :D

Konstantin Fomenko
01-09-2012, 09:37 PM
Sing me up for # 5:)

buddhist23
01-09-2012, 10:46 PM
Is there a way to put dragons in a reservation? ;]

Joseph Visscher
01-09-2012, 11:55 PM
Sing me up for # 5:)

lol you like Zimbabwe dollars dont you kon...
I can see it now, july 2012, in dof, DRAGON WARS, everyone has armies of 10 royal dragons at least battling it out nonstop without any regards to any sort of loss. wonderful. ;)

Neinth
01-10-2012, 01:52 AM
I voted 3.

Only thing I would change is the conditions of death,in pve have them respawn,in pvp have them die,if thats possible

Also against epicly strong,I think maybe some slight increases in their armour values would be enough.After you get up past 1k dmg theres not much that can withstand them already,barring hero or anouther dragon,and hero doesnt have that good of a chance.

Would also love to see lowered arrow protection while flying.

Other than that,kill em,kill em all

I say this,while building a dragon army myself lmao

And rather smart idea re-doing this one,though suprized the revive is winning atm

Edit: if revive stays you could just rename the game,dragon wars has a ring to it

andreicde
01-10-2012, 02:28 AM
def option 3. dragons must be done! But.....can we have a vault to store our holidays dragons?:D I want to be able to store mines without actually losing them,but they take too much space and I don't want to ''suicide'' them.But I'd still go for something like ''proud owner of dragon give at 2011 halloween and 2011 christmas''. It's not about anything overpowered,but to show you had it. I'll give an example that did something like that. Runescape

That game basically at every holiday gave different costumes and items that did fun effects and that could be throwed away but you would get them back from a guy in a village which stored them no matter how many times you took them and throwed them. I want something similar with an exception. The dragons taken out can be killed. Although in the future with hero customization I'd go for holiday items instead of units. That way they can stay permanently in the hero's inventory.

szebus
01-10-2012, 05:56 AM
d... I'd still go for something like ''proud owner of dragon give at 2011 halloween and 2011 christmas''...

We could have a tag in the profile where it says "Proud owner of a Christmas Dragon or Halloween Dragon or Rabbit Dragon" and when the die "Proudly owned a ..." :p but seriously the tag could be mad in the profile under an achievements section ...

I voted 3.

same here


Only thing I would change is the conditions of death,in pve have them respawn,in pvp have them die,if thats possible

Yes, yes, that would be the way.

Other than that,kill em,kill em all

Burn them, burn the Dragons with their own firebreath.

Edit: if revive stays you could just rename the game,dragon wars has a ring to it

Why bother building up an army and doing quests if we can have a game with instant Dragon fights ? :mad: We could just have a game where you get some dragons for every holiday and even for our birthday and then battle them against other Dragons. If want Dragons so badly, there should be a Dragon race and this way other races can buy as many Dragons they like from NPC towns without bothering if they die or not period

Eaglecrys
01-10-2012, 11:04 AM
If want Dragons so badly, there should be a Dragon race and this way other races can buy as many Dragons they like from NPC towns without bothering if they die or not period

ooooooh yeah lol that is the spot for me lol

Sorry I would love to for dragons to be more apart of the game somehow then an epicly rare creature you never see. The idea of dragons being a super troop that is rarely seen has been overdone to death in games.

Not to mention if it is this super huge rare uber unit in later lvls then it will be those that have massive amounts of time to make those units and instead of armies of dragons vs army of dragons it will an army of super dragons wiping out casual players till they call foul enough that those new dragons get nerfed.

Ballance does need to be maintained and I agree 100% inflation is bad. Always the thing of becareful what you wish for.

It was mentioned before about allowing only one dragon per army and that to me sounded great. If people did not like how many dragons their own nation had that was what the discard feature is for. (although i would say depending on dragon ie dragon points )

rollando
01-10-2012, 12:54 PM
a good way to improve the use of dragon its to give 30% of wealt and give the chance to the player who lost the dragon to retrain it of the cost of 10k gold, would be nice to see a real economie with a unit like dragon.
Want it, pay for it :P

buddhist23
01-10-2012, 02:30 PM
I want my vote from #2 to #3. Misvoted. I want the dragons to die- idk about holiday dragons though. The DRAGONS MUST DIE BECAUSE THEY ARE CONSIDERED AN UNIT. IF ALL OTHER UNITS IN THE GAME DIE, THEN SO MUST THE DRAGON. COMMON SENSE HERP DERP! UNLESS YOU READ SOMEWHERE THAT DRAGONS WERE ALL GODS AND RES THEMSELVES WHILE HAVING A CASE OF AMNESIA! DO NOT VOTE FOR RESPAWNING DRAGONS OR YOU WILL HAVE AN OVERPOPULATION OF DRAGONS - which is HIGHLY UNREALISTIC.

Dreamwalker
01-10-2012, 05:56 PM
I went with #3.

Before, I was all for dragons respawning, but it's more fun just to kill them.:) And having thousands of dragons everywhere would get really old.

Except, of course, if dragons were their own race...though there'd have to be serious balancing done, it would (I think) be pretty sweet. :D

Eaglecrys
01-10-2012, 06:30 PM
Not really sure if putting thoughts opinions or facts all in caps gets anywhere more then just typing them out.

Anyhow. As for what is realistic and what is not that would be rather hard to determin in a fantasy game.

Some are looking for the shock troop factor of dragons that respawn others dont want to loose real life money if they spent it. However there are also some that just wish to see something new and different to be done with dragons.

Now what all that has in it only the developers truly have the power to see or create lol. Time will tell I reckon.

Alot of good ideas floating around so far.

Neinth
01-10-2012, 07:42 PM
I dont think anyone wants to give up their dragons tbh.In the short view,it sucks,in the long run though,its gonna have to happen.Best to do it now,and move on and adjust,than to wait around knowing something is gonna have to change.

No matter what happens,got a feeling dragons will be a point of contention for entire time this games servers are running.

Meh let em respawn,their gonna get nerfed till their useless and are indeed vanity items

Kill em off,they will indeed become a rare site in pvp I'd imagine,will only see some rather high lvl ones if you do see em.

I liked the wealth per dragon killed,think that could be interesting way to do things,but a royale at ten bucks,not so sure to many people gonna roll with that.Also brings in current value of wealth.Someone like me can make 120 wealth in one day,yes I have no life.

I'd still think best comprimise is revive n pve,kill in pvp.

add a limit to the pop cap you can support,10% is 39,20 would be....higher hehehe really though 78,thing is stop giving us dragons for promo's we like it to much and wanna keep em lmao.TBH i think this may be where the real issue is.

I can get a royale or a red or a green any ole day of the week.But how am I supposed to show that noob my awsomeness without a Haunter or an Ice to pwn them with?

Personally,this is one of those topics i dont think anyones gonna "win" I say,you devs get toghether,decide whats gonna happen,let us know so we can rage on you for a while then come sulking back begging for mercy.Is the simplest and best solution to this,no matter what you do,someones not gonna like it,and this topic will never die.Its nice your getting our input as players,but dragons can be your bread and butter,letting use decide what happens to them isnt gonna help you guys out any.And honestly,I dont think its gonna help us any.If anything its going to start a spiral into dwarfs not dieing,then i'm tired of my worker units dieing,then unicorns are magical beasts,and my towns wishing well is actually the lost fountian of youth.

Make em die,cut their cost in half,give em a mini assault rifle and have them shoot laser beams from their arse.

You guys tell me whats gonna happen to Mr. Beefcakes,and I'll support it,I might not like it,but I'll get over and move on.As will everyone else.And if they dont,well hopefuly Mr. Beefcakes or one of his offspring will be able to show them the light.

One last time,just to make sure my points well taken,in this matter,screw the players,you give us what you intended these dragons to be.If what they where intended is overpowered or under powered,it can be fixed,while staying to what you had intended to start with.You should do this now,get this over with,before you end up with 10,000 players with 60,000 immortal dragons rageing on you for making their dragons die.

I leave you with some famous words of a well known dragon:

Draco: My time is over! Strike!
Bowen: You are my friend.
Draco: Then as my friend, STRIKE, PLEASE!

See, the dragons will understand,they long for death,but they fear it as well ,for upon death,a dragon loses his soul.........(their souls are made of wealth)

Joseph Visscher
01-10-2012, 08:42 PM
I want my vote from #2 to #3. Misvoted. I want the dragons to die- idk about holiday dragons though. The DRAGONS MUST DIE BECAUSE THEY ARE CONSIDERED AN UNIT. IF ALL OTHER UNITS IN THE GAME DIE, THEN SO MUST THE DRAGON. COMMON SENSE HERP DERP! UNLESS YOU READ SOMEWHERE THAT DRAGONS WERE ALL GODS AND RES THEMSELVES WHILE HAVING A CASE OF AMNESIA! DO NOT VOTE FOR RESPAWNING DRAGONS OR YOU WILL HAVE AN OVERPOPULATION OF DRAGONS - which is HIGHLY UNREALISTIC.

I'm editing the poll, there is really only 2 things to vote for here...

Dragons should die.
Dragons should respawn.

Joseph Visscher
01-10-2012, 08:57 PM
Andy Joslin voted for 1#

knightl
01-10-2012, 09:07 PM
i believe they should die just to make them rarer but if this happens will they become more powerful?

Joseph Visscher
01-10-2012, 09:15 PM
Chris Harshman voted for 1#

knightl
01-10-2012, 09:16 PM
Chris Harshman voted for 1#

so much for a anonymous vote, i mean who cares about privacy


what did you vote for?

Joseph Visscher
01-10-2012, 09:21 PM
so much for a anonymous vote, i mean who cares about privacy


what did you vote for?

I say this because publicly I annouced that dev votes count for 5 votes. :)

Joseph Visscher
01-10-2012, 09:22 PM
John Locks supports 1#

andreicde
01-10-2012, 09:59 PM
a good way to improve the use of dragon its to give 30% of wealt and give the chance to the player who lost the dragon to retrain it of the cost of 10k gold, would be nice to see a real economie with a unit like dragon.
Want it, pay for it :P

well yeah but in the same time the player that killed it should also get income. I mean,killing dragon IS hard!

knightl
01-10-2012, 11:53 PM
I say this because publicly I annouced that dev votes count for 5 votes. :)

lol welcome to democracy :)

Brian Shingles
01-11-2012, 04:17 AM
I vote for #1

I think the main reason we made Dragons respawn is because people who had spent money to acquire them were getting upset when they lost them in the first battle. Having them respawn at low level only but otherwise dying like other units is the right way to go in my opinion.

If you really want an immortal dragon to lay waste to enemy hordes, you can make yourself a custom scenario and give the dragons 1,000,000 HP and a high healing rate, but in the "real world" of the game, dragons will die.

Joseph Visscher
01-11-2012, 10:23 AM
lol welcome to democracy :) just like in real life right.

szebus
01-11-2012, 10:45 AM
Hey, is Canada a dictatorial country ? :p

edit: still like the way the votes are going. 37 for Drags to die and 10 that doesn't count :D

Eaglecrys
01-11-2012, 10:57 AM
lol except in real life the polls are not changed once they have been voted up rofl. :P poke poke

not even sure the point of voting now though. With dev votes counting as five all that was needed was a few to vote one way or another and the direction was sealed. Should just do what you all decide upon within the company and lets us know how it pans out later lol.

muhaha I voted for #2 out of spite heh ok ok and love of dragons .....

szebus
01-11-2012, 11:01 AM
No they don't change but are settled from the beginning :D

Back on topic: die Dragon, dieeeee :mad:

Neinth
01-11-2012, 11:23 AM
Was glad to see this when I logged on,much simpler.

buddhist23
01-11-2012, 02:49 PM
its perfectly okay to let a ten dollar dragon die. People will still be willing to buy it.

Neinth
01-11-2012, 03:51 PM
I could see them taking that into account and droping the prices,or vastly increaseing their stats.

I like dragon stats the way they are,and would think cutting prices in half,possibly increaseing stats a little between royale/red/green to separate them a bit more would be ideal way to solve it.

Maybe remove fireball from green,give him weakened fire wall(compared to royale),he feels more like an up and personal anyways.Would increase greens current walk/run to faster,lower the points one could put into his hp(can get him to 24k i think right now,which puts him inline with other dragons)and increase his dmg reduction a bit,but decrease arrow(using points removed from his hp)

Red would say remove firewall,give him slightly weakened fireball (compared to royale)though,same current range as the greens current fireball,slow his walk/run speed,should be slower than a green imo(size and all) Lower his arrow protection,increase other two stats a bit though.

And royales would have the best of the best compared to a green or a red,full str firewall/fireball,increased dmg reduction rates above green and red,80% arrow reduction as it is currently,increased fireball range(compared to changed red's) walk/run speed inbetween a changed greed/reds maybe even incresed firewall range,by 50%,i mean make him a beast compared to a green or red

basically separate them more in their stats and abilities,their defence values ect ect.Would solve or help with the prices of them.

But still,kill em all :> I think how to separate is a completly different topic atm,as well as welth costs and such.

vissfam
01-11-2012, 04:11 PM
its perfectly okay to let a ten dollar dragon die. People will still be willing to buy it.


They arn't going to die right away, if the dragon is under level 5 he will respawn with same stats, this mean the dragon gets to be in a few battles before he is truly 'killable'.



I could see them taking that into account and droping the prices,or vastly increaseing their stats.

I like dragon stats the way they are,and would think cutting prices in half,possibly increaseing stats a little between royale/red/green to separate them a bit more would be ideal way to solve it.

Maybe remove fireball from green,give him weakened fire wall(compared to royale),he feels more like an up and personal anyways.Would increase greens current walk/run to faster,lower the points one could put into his hp(can get him to 24k i think right now,which puts him inline with other dragons)and increase his dmg reduction a bit,but decrease arrow(using points removed from his hp)

Red would say remove firewall,give him slightly weakened fireball (compared to royale)though,same current range as the greens current fireball,slow his walk/run speed,should be slower than a green imo(size and all) Lower his arrow protection,increase other two stats a bit though.

And royales would have the best of the best compared to a green or a red,full str firewall/fireball,increased dmg reduction rates above green and red,80% arrow reduction as it is currently,increased fireball range(compared to changed red's) walk/run speed inbetween a changed greed/reds maybe even incresed firewall range,by 50%,i mean make him a beast compared to a green or red

basically separate them more in their stats and abilities,their defence values ect ect.Would solve or help with the prices of them.

But still,kill em all :> I think how to separate is a completly different topic atm,as well as welth costs and such.

They said that a possible addition to it is dragon's loot would give 50% wealth back to the victor, i rather see dragon's price go UP to like 200 wealth for a royal and if he does die the victor of the battle will get 100 wealth! its like a gambling, its fun to do stuff like that. imagine you kill the enemies royal and then beat him! you earn 100 wealth LOL!(if they where to increase it to 200 that is) would be 60 if they dont right.

buddhist23
01-11-2012, 07:53 PM
maybe 10% goes to victory- 50% back to owner....
wouldn't you feel "Salty" if you lost a drag

Dreamwalker
01-12-2012, 05:25 PM
Kill them. That's all I need to say. ;)

I mean, they're dragons, not gods. They shouldn't live forever. And even without any kind of respawning, they're still epicly powerful.

Neinth
01-17-2012, 02:07 AM
So been rather quite here for a few days,wanted to ask,whats the verdict?

Joseph Visscher
01-17-2012, 04:31 PM
Dragons are going to be killable next patch.

knightl
01-17-2012, 07:12 PM
Dragons are going to be killable next patch.

≧◉◡◉≦


that made me a happy hunter

Neinth
01-17-2012, 08:45 PM
hehehe better get to lvling them then i suppose :>

szebus
01-18-2012, 05:15 AM
Dragons are going to be killable next patch.

Good call.

selridion
01-19-2012, 12:47 PM
id like to opt a idea of my own

i don't know if its already been said since i didn't read every post in great detail ( shame on me )
but how about a compromise ?

instead of making it a choice between loosing or keeping

lets say your 120 wealth royal dragon bites the dust you can regenerate it in your castle
you could make it a process which takes allot of time
lets say 24 hours to regenerate it

then make it cost resources aswell
maybe like 2000 food and 2000 gold (or make it scale on the dragon its level)

i suppose you wanna keep the cost of regeneration reasonable so it doesn't take more time to regenerate it then it would to farm the wealth for a new one because that would make the idea sorta pointless

you could also allow wealth to be used on it for speeding up the regeneration speed
you can never have to many minor wealth sinks :P



another thing
as much fun as over powerfull units are they to take away strategie if used to much and ease down the game

tho its always fun to have a ace card
maybe its a idea to make counter "superunit" weapons to give players defense against dragons

now iv not fought against or with dragons myself yet but im guessing they roast / kill units quite easy and have high defensive values so they don't die to quick

it wouldn't be fun to make a "anti dragon death beam" cuz then you would just take 1 of those with every army you make and render dragons useless

but maybe something in between like uhm a unit which lowers dragons there mobility / offensive force / defensive power or a unit which takes quite some skill to use successfully but when you do succeed pays off

added to that id think of a "superunit cap" to limit extensive use of them
and added to that add more superunits to the game to make army compositions less predictable (id go for "more types of "Giant Beasts") and give them all distinctive play-style



*and about the dragon inflation
if you cap dragons at 1 "active" per army/castle then does it matter how many dragons there are in the game?
you could have 500 dragons... and still have the same power as someone with 1
added to that you could make the "regeneration time" of a dragon scale with how many dragons you have
lets say you got 10 of them... make it 10 days for each individual dragon to regenerate instead of the 1 day for 1 dragon
or even scale it up so with 10 of them it would take 20 days for each individual one to regenerate
it would keep players from buying to many because it doesn't benefit them and if you make regeneration cost a lil wealth it wouldn't hurt the wealth consumption to much (or make players want to use wealth to speed up the dragons regeneration timer)

it would turn from 1time payment of 10 euros for every dragon into a 1time payment of 10 euros + small payment to Resurrect it

-ps. the values i use in this post are just for explanation iv got no idea what proper cost / regen times / etc would be they could be anything


now.. im starting to turn this into a wall of text.. cuz i keep editing stuff into it :P
either way just some idea's hope its inspirational

ki adi mundi
01-21-2012, 02:49 PM
i think they should turn into an egg that you wait for to hatch and all stats reset

szebus
01-21-2012, 03:13 PM
They are Dragons not Phoenix .

ki adi mundi
01-21-2012, 06:15 PM
there should just be await time before you can use them again if they die maybe they go into a hibernation for a while just a thought

andreicde
01-21-2012, 11:28 PM
nah,it's not punishing enough.you should't be able to just have a dragon reviving after a while. If he dies,he should just die. When Smaugh died,he actually died,and same thing for the dragons in game of thrones.that's why there are only bones left.

szebus
01-22-2012, 03:56 AM
Even in Skyrim the Dragons die ... :p

Chinchy2222
01-24-2012, 07:10 PM
why not just have it so if the player that has the dragon loses the battle it is perm dead but if they win it is returned to there army at 1hp?

szebus
01-25-2012, 02:11 AM
why not just have it so if the player that has the dragon loses the battle it is perm dead but if they win it is returned to there army at 1hp?

A similar solution is that the winner gets back some wealth of the dragons value instead of getting back the dragon and I believe it is a better solution.

Doeetright
01-25-2012, 04:39 AM
I don't think dragons should die permanently because let's face it Royals cost 10$ per. That can get a little steep if it becomes a PVP requirement to have a full dragon army.

I think a BETTER solution, is to make a dragon pop cap per PvP battle. Say like every battle you enter you're only allowed to take that 1 dragon. The problem with that is it would limit income a bit on your end. But it would save player misery from feeling like they have to have a full dragon army or they wouldn't be able to compete, (And then of course paying 10$ per dragon if something terrible happens and all 3/4 die)

EDIT: And if you guys really go the dragons will die method, then I STILL think it'd be a good idea to create a dragon pop cap. Let's face it, no one really likes spending 30-40$ a day on a video game.

andreicde
01-25-2012, 08:54 AM
I don't think dragons should die permanently because let's face it Royals cost 10$ per. That can get a little steep if it becomes a PVP requirement to have a full dragon army.

I think a BETTER solution, is to make a dragon pop cap per PvP battle. Say like every battle you enter you're only allowed to take that 1 dragon. The problem with that is it would limit income a bit on your end. But it would save player misery from feeling like they have to have a full dragon army or they wouldn't be able to compete, (And then of course paying 10$ per dragon if something terrible happens and all 3/4 die)

EDIT: And if you guys really go the dragons will die method, then I STILL think it'd be a good idea to create a dragon pop cap. Let's face it, no one really likes spending 30-40$ a day on a video game.

the solution to your problem is to not abuse dragons.Dragons are already too strong because of the fireball. that ability is accurate and at lvl 1 it does same damage as a lvl 60. fireball well placed can kill a batallion with a hit. now the problem is even bigger during sieges since archers/trebs can't reach the dragon's fireball range. This is also a big problem since dragons are naturally strong toward archers unless the person is just rushing toward 60 archer batallions. So yes dragons should die even if they cost money. Why?because after a while you'll want to switch batallions but because you have too many you won't be able. trust me,we faced this problem when dragons were immortals.

Dreamwalker
01-25-2012, 04:32 PM
Another solution is not to use dragons, at all. They take up too much army space, and while strong and everything, I prefer my elves. That's not to say I don't have my holiday dragons, though...;)

I get that dragons are awesome and everything, but personally, I wouldn't pay $10 for one. After all, for the space it takes up I could have 10 high level grandmasters.

In the end, I'm happy that they'll die like the rest of us. But having these super units in the first place is still a problem, if too many people have them. Course,that wouldn't be an issue if dragons were their own race...:D