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Joseph Visscher
11-21-2011, 04:06 PM
For the past week and so myself, and other two Lead Scripters - Andy J and a Jarno M have been working on adding a new skill system and experience system into game with more skills and more control (for devs) over how much experience is needed for which level.

I thought to post a sneak peak into the system before its releases so forum fans here have the upper advantage in knowing these skills before using them! This forum will also become the main discussion thread for the skills for rants, suggestions, balancing, etc.

The most major changes to the general system:
1. All increases are a Static Value NOT a Multiplier this means instead of saying 20% more its simply a real number. Main reason for this is its easier to balance the game with higher leveled units in mind.
2. Skills have a maximum limit, you will no longer see archers with 100% skills on damage with 1200 damage each arrow.
3. You will never be able to max out all skills, unit level cap will not gain enough skill points to spend it on everything, choose wisely!


Here are the skills new and old with how much they currently increase, and there skill limit. All of which can change as we balance them in the coming patch and weeks down the road possibly. This will be seperated into 2 segments, normal units and heroes, dragon skills will come later. ;)

Melee Only skills:

2. Improve Fortitude, Armor Resistant Slashing, A static value added to a percentage that is taken off overall damage taken of that attack type. 5+ added upto a limit of 5 skill points which is 25% damage resistance which is 75 damage out of 100 plus unit's existing armor.

3. Improve Strength Armor Resistant Crushing, A static value added to a percentage that is taken off overall damage taken of that attack type. 5+ added upto a limit of 5 skill points which is 25% damage resistance which is 75 damage out of 100 plus unit's existing armor.

Ranged only skills:

8. Improve Eyes, +20 View and Range up to 15 skill points for a total of +300 range, may need to replace normal arrow weapon with a more powerful one at one of the stages otherwise it will not be able to reach furthest target.

7. Fletching, increase Arrow Ammo Cap by 5 per battalion member, decreases arrow Fletching time during idle by 1 second (creates new arrows faster while idle) upto 15 skill points.


All Level-able Units:

1. Improve Attack, +10 increase to damage evenly distributed among all existing damage types(units that do 2 types of damage), up to 30 levels which is +300 damage total.

4. Improve Agility, Armor Resistant Piercing, A static value added to a percentage that is taken off overall damage taken of that attack type. 5+ added upto a limit of 5 skill points which is 25% damage resistance which is 75 damage out of 100 plus unit's existing armor.

5. Improve Health, +50 increase to health, up to 20 skill points for units, +1000 total.

6. Improve Stamina, increases +20 increase to Stamina, +1 Walkspeed and Runspeed per Skill point up to 10 skill points which is +200 stamina, +10 Walk and +10 Run total,

7. Improve Restoration, +2 to Heal Rate, amount of health each member regains every 3 in game seconds; up to 10 skill points for total +20 Heal Rate.




Heroes, right now Heroes have same increases but the limits on the levels are much higher as heroes go upto level 60! Units go to level 20.

1. Improve Attack, limit 90.

2. Improve Fortitude, limit 16.

3. Improve Strength, limit 16.

4. Improve Agility, limit 16.

5. Improve Health, limit 120

6. Improve Stamina, limit 20

7. Improve Restoration, limit 20



Totals:
Level 20 unit has total of 60 skill points to spend.
Level 60 hero has total of 180 skill points to spend.

Unit Total = 85 (110 for archers)
Hero Total = 298


This means in the end battles of highest leveled units will be unique as each player may have chosen a different skill set, highest leveled units wont always be equal.




Experience System allows us to choose how much XP is required for every level, we have separated heroes into their own group and plan to do the same for dragons.
Hero's experience system is very low for the first 20 levels, when you hit around level 50 it starts to spike insanely, good luck getting to level 60 it will take a long time. :D

Dreamwalker
11-21-2011, 04:52 PM
you will no longer see archers with 100% skills on damage with 1200 damage each arrow

Hehe. ;)


These new skills look cool; way better than the old ones, anyway!

Can't wait to see them in game (though I gotta tell you, it's going to be a pain redoing every unit's skills...:D ).

Joseph Visscher
11-21-2011, 04:55 PM
Oh btw, i should mention, already leveled units wont lose all there skills, you will get a refund back if you hit the skill limit on that skill, so if you have 18 skill points on attack damage, on the first load of the new system it will revert it back to max 15 and give you 3 free skill points to spend. And stats will reapply, that 1650 damage per hit will revert back down to the proper level, lol hehe.

Griegor Mcvennor
11-21-2011, 08:21 PM
I have to withhold judgement until I see them in action. I do like the fact that we are getting much more variety though.

Magicmud83
11-22-2011, 04:21 AM
Sounds nice just wish you could make a system to level the units stats up faster. Clicking on each unit and giving them there skill points after every level or training was bad with only 3 skills now with 8 its going to be something lol. Getting jumped into pvp and taking the first 3-4 mins giving each unit its skills will be tricky.

A way to set up how we want our guys to auto level from a menu in our town could be a idea and would save time during a fight.

Dreamwalker
11-22-2011, 03:07 PM
I'm with you on this, magicmud. In every battle, it seems I spend from 1 to 10 minutes of the battle just giving my troops some skills (especcially because of the lag, it takes a while). Nice to see some way to do this before battle (besides just sending your units back to town and giving the skills there, I mean).

Safey18
11-22-2011, 06:22 PM
I'm with you on this, magicmud. In every battle, it seems I spend from 1 to 10 minutes of the battle just giving my troops some skills (especcially because of the lag, it takes a while). Nice to see some way to do this before battle (besides just sending your units back to town and giving the skills there, I mean).

Ummm just click the magnifying glass and go into the regions PvE map thingy and allocate your skills there?

Dreamwalker
11-22-2011, 06:27 PM
Ummm just click the magnifying glass and go into the regions PvE map thingy and allocate your skills there?

I would, 'cept whenever I do that, the game crashes.
But one of these days, this bug will get fixed, and I'll try that.:D

Safey18
11-22-2011, 08:59 PM
I would, 'cept whenever I do that, the game crashes.
But one of these days, this bug will get fixed, and I'll try that.:D

Oh that really does suck then! Thats the way I do to make sure I'm ready for PvPs. Man trying to allocate all those skills with PvP lag would be hell xD

Magicmud83
11-23-2011, 01:37 AM
Have the same crash problem so ya a out of battle menu would be nice.

Joseph Visscher
11-30-2011, 06:48 PM
Updating Dragon skills next:

They Will have same increase amounts as other default melee units.

Every unit they damage in a radius strike will give experience not just 1xp per hit.

Completely different XP tables, upto possibly level 60 like heroes.

Attack damage will also increase Area of Effect radius in all melee damage and firewall abilities as well as landing area damage.

Armor Resistance will be same.

Health increase will be the same.

Health regen will also be the same or higher.

Leveling dragons will be quicker and easier than heroes upto the high levels at which point it will become a lot harder to reach higher levels.

Dragons overall will get quite a large boost.


There is a large chance that dragons will not revive after death like heroes do. if they die, they are dead and gone. But the buff overall counters this if your dragon lives through battle after battle it is earning you wealth.

andreicde
11-30-2011, 07:19 PM
small issue with that though: They still remain glass cannons.

Eaglecrys
11-30-2011, 09:35 PM
Dragons dieing after a battle and not coming back would be ok if it did not seem to cost so many crowns for a royal dragon. Sure we dont have to buy a royal and could get a red or even cheaper a green but is there anyway to have at least one dragon even a new one not die forever. Sorry Guess I am looking for more of the eye candy of one then its pvp value even.

To be very honest I was very pleased to find the dragons in the game and even more so to find they would respawn if lost. Made me feel like the race that was put on hold kind of came back in a small way like tossing a dog a bone if you will.

Ballance wise if they are beefed up it would horribly suck to run into an entire army of them which would happen if all were left to be respawnable but what about a code for one type of a dragon and only one in each town or on worse case one account for that type that would respawn.

Joseph Visscher
11-30-2011, 10:55 PM
Dragons will be buffed quite a bit, a level 60 dragon is going to be a army killer unless that army has a lot of high leveled units. Too have Dragons respawn allows players to be reckless with their dragons that will soon, more so than ever, potentially generate massive amounts of wealth in npc sieges or pvp in the hands of a person that takes care of it.

I see several options to this dragon respawn.

1.Keep it the way it is, dragons can be suicide machines, go in destroy as much as possible until it dies, completely reckless and not caring for it at all, just kill as much as you can. Keep them weak and easy to kill.

2.Remove it and buff them in higher levels. Higher level Dragons will be Epicly strong and be able to turn the tide of battle earning you more Wealth, but if you lose him,,, hes gone forever.

3.If he dies, all levels and skill reset, start over at level 1 lose all skill, lower leveled dragons will be weak but highest leveled dragons will be very powerful.

4.Number of lives. Dragon can die once, he gets 1 revive, after that he is gone for ever.

Eaglecrys
12-01-2011, 01:15 AM
number three in my own opinion sounds incredibly interesting. It would make players think twice about using it as a sucide bomber less it was a last ditch effort possibly. Knowing full well that if it dies in this attempt it will set them back many many hours/days/weeks/months whatever it will take to lvl it back up to such a powerful beast.

I know for me personally it would be a HUGE trophy almost instead of anything to show a fully lvled up dragon off lol I would feel like a total goof if I lost it in war for lack of planning and had to start it all over again but also a sense of thrill as well.

I am not sure how you have all the dragons coded but maybe if one of them was this way would make it well worth it all. If wealth farming is a worry what about a wealth ressurection ?

Thank you for at least listening and thinking about it more, much appreciated. Been waiting so very long it seems for a game with some decent dragons in it. You guys rock.

andreicde
12-01-2011, 06:23 AM
I'd actually be happier if dragons had a def boost so we could see them surviving a bit more when they get targeted. Option 3 seems interesting though. But I still want a vault where we could keep events units like the haunter dragon :D

Nermal
12-01-2011, 08:04 AM
Personally I like the resurrection idea, it would be daungting to redo a high lvl dragon from scratch, no matter what particulary because of the cost on crowns, but also in time spent to lvl the dragon. To "counter" those who uses their dragon as suicide bomber unit maybe make make it timed resurection which will cost lots of resources.

Say 5k of each resource and a full day resurrection ritual or something like that. That way the bomber idea might blow and people can have their hard earned dragon back at a relatively easy cost if the dragon is important to them.

Thus the dragon will really mean something, instead of a "fire & forget" unit

grumil
12-01-2011, 09:36 AM
I dont like the idea of resurrection. If a dragon is dead... is dead.

But if resurrection is adodted, it has to cost some influence, i.e., 10% of the dragonīs cost, and time, the dragon will resurrect 10 days after its death in level 1.

The expensive resurrections avoid the kamikazes dragons.

karamot
12-01-2011, 09:39 AM
finally u listened my issue about dragon respawn

i appreciate new skill system and i really appreciate dragon will die!!!!

now game is gaining sense

Eaglecrys
12-01-2011, 10:12 AM
the game will gain more sense once an orc goblin raiding party wont devour everything in its path without hesitation. IE alot of ballance needs to be done. Right now if fighting a dragon dont stand within its firewall move your archers around and time your melee attacks and they go down really really fast.

I do like the additional idea of an entire day of ressurection needs or a ritual. A steep fee to bring them back as well sounds very reasonable. Resources are not that bad to gather for it and 10% of their wealth cost sounds nice as well. Maybe even higher like 20% or something.

The idea behind dragons resurrection is not for a uber powerful weapon to be abused, but to give those that fully enjoy the dragons and having them the abilitly to keep them around and use them.Some people may even be rping a little bit with them as well.

Another idea I was thinking of and this might get totaly blown up would be what about an idea of a dragon ambassador from the dragon nation as a subhero to help run around and accomplish quest with. So when we get a quest on other side of map we are not loosing one army to go all the way their because it needs a hero in it. Instead possibly having two armies going in diff directions.

Make the dragon ambassador lvl more or less like a hero and take away their fire if need be based upon the fact they are an ambassador and must refrain from using such violent attacks. Possibly give them aoe buffs to boost an army when they are near it instead.

If truly later on way down the road a dragon nation is to be added this would set a good ground play for it and give players a hunger for what may come.

Joseph Visscher
12-01-2011, 11:42 AM
I thought of a few more new systems you all might like.

5. Dragon resurrection if under level 10 (early dragons) (dragons get to level 10 after only around 1900-2000 kills, Skill will not be reset on resurrection. After the dragon gets to level 10 it changes to a dragon that can die and wont ever come back.

6.When Dragon is fallen it is given a an amount of Unconscious Health that drains down to 0, Hero's mass heal ability will slow the effect but when the dragon reaches 0 the dragon dies, forever. If the battle ends before the dragon actually dies then he has full resurrection.

7. Lol this one might be a bit harsh for some. Player Dragons (not npc ones in dragon region) when they die and their master loses the battle the dragon is adopted by the team that killed it. If you kill a dragon and you win you keep it as a reward, along with its level. If you lose it and you win the battle, you get to keep it.



(
1.Keep it the way it is, dragons can be suicide machines, go in destroy as much as possible until it dies, completely reckless and not caring for it at all, just kill as much as you can. Keep them weak and easy to kill.

2.Remove it and buff them in higher levels. Higher level Dragons will be Epicly strong and be able to turn the tide of battle earning you more Wealth, but if you lose him,,, hes gone forever.

3.If he dies, all levels and skill reset, start over at level 1 lose all skill, lower leveled dragons will be weak but highest leveled dragons will be very powerful.

4.Number of lives. Dragon can die once, he gets 1 revive, after that he is gone for ever.
)



I'm in favor of number 5 with what ever level we deem good for a 'newbie' threshold. With the new system getting to level 10 is not hard and might take around 5-10 games if that. Every single kill the dragon makes is 1 xp point and 1900 xp all together is needed for level 10.

Eaglecrys
12-01-2011, 11:50 AM
lol on number 7.I still like the third one the best so far honestly although number 5 is not bad either. can keep your dragon long as you dont let him kill anyone rofl.

I still think that just one dragon per account possible that does ressurect with a steep fine on its ressurection one day cool down 10-20% wealth and the total loss of all lvls and stats if it dies.

Rest the dragons can be the glass cannons or epic units that may die in round 1 or round 50 depending on player skill hehe

Dreamwalker
12-01-2011, 04:59 PM
I thinking 2 and 5. 2 becasue it's nice and simple (and the original idea for dragons, right?) and 5 because it sounds the fairest overall.

7 though...I've got a feeling that this will get a lot of players a bit paranoid about their dragons. 'Course, the more reckless sort might have some fun with this...

andreicde
12-01-2011, 05:08 PM
I'm totally up for 7 as long as haunter dragon is always invincible and remains to the same player. Holiday unit,so I want to brag about it without losing,not much of a point if anyone could get it.

Dreamwalker
12-01-2011, 05:19 PM
I agree with Ark on the haunter dragon bit. Especcially since the haunter dragon's the only dragon I've got. :p

andreicde
12-01-2011, 05:39 PM
I agree with Ark on the haunter dragon bit. Especcially since the haunter dragon's the only dragon I've got. :p

I have a black too,but I could care less if the royal dies, as long as I can never lose my haunter

Eaglecrys
12-01-2011, 07:05 PM
if the haunter dragon stays that way then all dragons would need to stay that way or the point of them would be mute more or less. I do agree that holiday or special items should stick around but the problem is finding ballance in that. Perhaps keeping the haunter a squishy heh.

As for the original ideas for dragons as stated that is not in anyway. Also the original idea for dragons was a playable race. Not even sure when that may come to be. Once that time arrives by all means make it like it was supposed to be. Till then I would see no real issue with tossing a bone out to keep the hunger satisfied.

lol maybe this should be a poll on the numbers joseph put up as well heh

I am going with 3 first vote and 5 second vote for sure. Or is there an option c >? this is becoming a very great debate thread :) nice to see all players putting in great feed back and ideas.

Joseph Visscher
12-01-2011, 08:40 PM
I will leave haunter dragon in always and will not die, this is because people some people bought the game for this dragon and to remove it would be a sorta rip off, only the people who bought the game at that time will have them, forever, this debate is about repurchasable dragons, Green, Red and Royal Dragons.


I will make a Poll for this debate, good idea guys.

Griegor Mcvennor
12-01-2011, 09:08 PM
Hmm, dragons sound like are about to become the mutually assured destruction for player armies. IE if you don't have one you will wish you did because you probably won't win that battle. I hope the dragon's are still kept weak. I have no interest in getting dragons myself. Now if I want to pvp am I forced to grind a dragon to stay competitive?

Just something to think about. If dragons become too important, people who don't want to grind them or don't have time to will stop logging in for pvp.

Joseph Visscher
12-01-2011, 09:16 PM
Hmm, dragons sound like are about to become the mutually assured destruction for player armies. IE if you don't have one you will wish you did because you probably won't win that battle. I hope the dragon's are still kept weak. I have no interest in getting dragons myself. Now if I want to pvp am I forced to grind a dragon to stay competitive?

Just something to think about. If dragons become too important, people who don't want to grind them or don't have time to will stop logging in for pvp.


Thats my biggest worry Giregor, but they are quite useless atm because they cant ever die. if that was to change... things would change.

Also Giregor, buy 3 dwarf cannons, use grape shot on dragons, kills them almost instantly if used correctly lol.

http://www.reverieworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5029

posted poll, move all all dragon death debate there please,,, dragon skill and other skills can be talked about here still though.

Dreamwalker
12-02-2011, 04:32 PM
I will leave haunter dragon in always and will not die, this is because people some people bought the game for this dragon and to remove it would be a sorta rip off

Thank you! And yes, I did buy the game for this dragon. :D

Speaking of dragon skills...I'd say that any kills made with the fire breathing skills should count as kills. Of course, that might make them level up too fast. Anyone have opinions on that?

Meanwhile, I'm going to take a look at this poll...;)

Eaglecrys
12-02-2011, 05:42 PM
it is possible that the fire skill could level them up really fast but from my understanding it is going to be insanely high anyhow so I think it may all come out in the wash on that part

Safey18
12-15-2011, 11:08 PM
Of course, we do not buy a Royal, you can get a red or a green cheaper, but anyway, there is at least one or a new Wedding Cufflinks dragon will never die.

Royals are much better then greens or reds... Thats why I have 4 of them xD

Griegor Mcvennor
12-16-2011, 08:08 AM
LOL Safey,
The guy you responded to is a spammer :). My advice. Do not click the link he embedded into his post.

Safey18
12-16-2011, 09:23 AM
LOL Safey,
The guy you responded to is a spammer :). My advice. Do not click the link he embedded into his post.

Yeah i noticed his other post too haha and i didn't click on the link anyway i don't trust random posters like that...