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ThatguyAds1298
10-16-2011, 05:55 AM
Was talking to Parg in game about this a little and was wondering if there will be any more balance changes added before town sieges are implemented? The Damage reduction etc is a great addition to the game and has helped. Though i hear some balance issues are still a problem at the moment.

Parg was telling me in game that his entire army was wiped out by a smaller group of mounted grand masters (i think thats what they called) earlier (even with the patch) an he has some concerns about that but he mentioned his english isnt as good so he let me post this on his behalf.

I would love to see a much more 'mixed' army set up encouraged in game also, Players can do what they like of course but strategy usually dies when balance issues interfere. What im saying is this : If players want to use all same unit armies then by all means they should be able too but there should be a very high risk involved in that they should have a big weakness. This is true for many units of course, but some of them seem to be a bit broken still.

I do have a rather quick solution to all this... and you REALLY wont like it..

Remove all 'healing' abilities from units, Excluding heroes.

Healing units tend to unbalance things even when matched against a unit they are supposed to be weak against, Just an idea but food for thought. I know Beserkers without their healing spell would be a bit worse for wear (Sorry my fellow orcs) so maybe they could get something to compensate for its loss.

On the subject of orcs.. The swarm tactic is for me is by far the best way to win but many units are not being used because they are inferior, Impalers for example i hardly see which is a real shame. Most orcs tend to just set fires on the battlefield to win which is a great tactic but orcs should not be forced to use this devious trick to win because their units are no match for the enemy.

Comments and concerns are welcome, So post your thoughts on what you'd like to see balanced so we can help the developers. I had to focus mainly on orcs as i dont play the other races at all so feel free to add your input on the other races units to.

Also i'd like to add this is not a whine or a rage thread, I myself am just offering my opinion and hoping others will add theirs too.

Gruber12
10-16-2011, 06:07 AM
healing abilites being removed on all units is a good idea but inside of getting rid of it altogether, having a very expensive healing unit that you can only have one of, heal a small amount of a single unit during combat and heal at a higher rate outside of combat might be something to look at

White935
10-16-2011, 06:36 AM
removing healing is actually a good idea aside from heroes (makes hero's pretty powerful/study).

Just give berserkers, knights and those with smiliar abilites a replacement trait/ability that reasonable. it dosnt make sense that berserkers are the most study unit we have. they should be short lived killing machines in my opinion.

Safey18
10-16-2011, 06:52 AM
If he lost to mounted GMs only he obviously didn't have a well rounded army which would include a pike wielding infantry because they dominate cav now. Things I believe seem to be quite nicely balanced at the moment EXCEPT for fire, wow it does way too much damage especially when it takes 20 clicks and another 10 seconds to move your units out of it.

Pargulan
10-16-2011, 07:16 AM
i got some ogres, some warg-riders and some archers ( gobos and marauders ). And im not complaining about the fact that i lost, im complaining that i lost to "only mounted GMs" without killing some of them.

My Army got completely "raped" .. thats the only way to describe it.


Plus, it's not only the mounted GMs that are "unbalanced". Even dragons ( keep in mind the royal dragon costs 120 wealth ) are USELESS right now. I used to "ride over" enemy troops, today ( with the new patch ) .. for every single troop my dragon rides over he gets 100 dmg... which means if trying to kill archers ( 30 troops per squad ) the dragon gets 3000dmg instantly ... so u can hardly do that ... and since Dragons are "melee" i dont want them to stand back and shoot fireballs ( which by the way cause de-syncs in pvp ). PLUS Dragons also get heavy dmg by archers ( and elvish archers still are bugged ) or pikeneers ( or something alike ).

So currently a dragon ( 120 wealth ) loses to elvish archers ( 3 squads ) ... now how is that supposed to be balanced ?????

----
As for me, my english is not realy good, so i keep it simple.
I want my orcish mixed armies to - at least - stand a chance vs armies that consist of only one unit-type. And if i lose I expect some casualties on enemy side as well.

I want dragons to be a "thread" since they are realy expensive. right now they are - as i said - useless.

As for the healing-ability, its hard to deal with it but in my opinion this is not what makes mounted GM so OP. They got about 300% movement speed, can "ride over" troops, deal enormous amounts of damage AND can heal .. so its the combination of all these factors that makes them so powerfull. So i'd suggest to make it impossible to activated more than one ability at the same time. ( and yes, i would lower GMs damage as well ^^ )

Cheers
Pargulan

White935
10-16-2011, 08:00 AM
I got the same as paug, my entire army was gobbled up with mounted grand masters before the fight had lasted 20 secounds ( Litterly, i've NEVER seen anytihng like it <.<) my poor ogres were the last to fall


Azgials Impaler army got raped too...<.< the suposedly counter.

Safey18
10-16-2011, 08:02 AM
Well I find dragons very effective in PvP actually and I use my royal one a lot. You guys must have a bad spear user then because the human one dominates. I suggest saving up some gold and going to buy the human ones from the furthest west human city on the map.

White935
10-16-2011, 08:16 AM
Well I find dragons very effective in PvP actually and I use my royal one a lot. You guys must have a bad spear user then because the human one dominates. I suggest saving up some gold and going to buy the human ones from the furthest west human city on the map.

Even without spear ,it shouldnt kill Our heavy units within 10 secounds. i mean it littlery gobbled up our armies. it wasnt "fighting" it was "butchering". while units should counter one another. they shouldnt finish eachother in 5 a battalion in less than 5 secounds.


edit: http://www.reverieworld.com/forums/showthread.php?p=64459#post64459 " a related post"

Safey18
10-16-2011, 09:13 AM
Even without spear ,it shouldnt kill Our heavy units within 10 secounds. i mean it littlery gobbled up our armies. it wasnt "fighting" it was "butchering". while units should counter one another. they shouldnt finish eachother in 5 a battalion in less than 5 secounds.


edit: http://www.reverieworld.com/forums/showthread.php?p=64459#post64459 " a related post"

Agreed but I do believe orcs are a little under powered at the moment and well if you know theres an effective counter out there why wouldn't you use it? The town that sells lvl 6 human spear guys is called Thorndale.

White935
10-16-2011, 09:16 AM
Agreed but I do believe orcs are a little under powered at the moment and well if you know theres an effective counter out there why wouldn't you use it? The town that sells lvl 6 human spear guys is called Thorndale.

yes.. and our armies have to reach thorndale first. its a very bad counter when its on the otherside of the map from us <.<

andreicde
10-16-2011, 09:34 AM
actually I have to agree with Safey on this one.We all know orcs are still underpowered and now pikes can actually rape cavs. So complaining about mounted grandmaster is kinda pointless,every unit has a counter so everything can be killed by something else. Oh and mounted grandmaster do kill everything with their high damage but pikes WILL dominate them now.

White935
10-16-2011, 10:05 AM
actually I have to agree with Safey on this one.We all know orcs are still underpowered and now pikes can actually rape cavs. So complaining about mounted grandmaster is kinda pointless,every unit has a counter so everything can be killed by something else. Oh and mounted grandmaster do kill everything with their high damage but pikes WILL dominate them now.

Actuallly they rape ogres too, which is suposed to be good vs heavy cav.

They Should be superior to their targeted unit. but atm its ridiclius. even with a counter. i had 6 units of slayers 4 units of goblin meele, 1 berserker 1 impaler unit(s), 7 marauders, 7 ogres (all units were level 5ish). and asoon the units came into range the battle lasted abit over 20 secounds. it wasnt even "resistance" dont worry thou i'll record it and post up a exemple.

GPS51
10-16-2011, 11:00 AM
I have a theory that when the "math part" of dof is finished being revised it will be much easier to play a balanced game and I've wondered if using melee gobos in attack move will be a good idea :)

karamot
10-16-2011, 11:26 AM
personally i think orks are really underpowered now

meantime in race description they should be most powerful attacker, while human half,half and elves defenders

actually its not
ogres have great damage and splash, while havent skill, but its good same for me
i agree with all to remove autohealing spell (potion), totally waster of game imho, because if i have to choice btw berserk autohealer or a ogre army or a mounter army, i cant avoid use berserk, but in this way all player will never apply strategy, just produce all last troop and battlefield will be all same

time ago a human with cavalry army raped completely my ogre army, and to be clear
my score was over 400
he was 210
he farmed all my units in 5 secs, i did nothing, just shocked, and he got 30 crown....
i supposed i failed because i hadnt counter, so i got a impaler army.....useless, next time my impaler pratically did harakiri....

Defilus
10-16-2011, 11:56 AM
I agree that the heal should go away, and I also agree that Impalers are useless. Even as a forest Orc those Impalers just drop dead the moment something touches them.

GPS51
10-16-2011, 11:56 AM
I'm hoping to see the balance evened out over the next two weeks. The good news is that the devs will continue to balance the game and it's not like "we gave you guys one balance patch so gl". Keep putting ideas out to spur those devs on! :cool:

Jonr
10-16-2011, 12:38 PM
I definitely agree that mounted grandmasters need to be nerfed, and I use fifteen units of them in my army. They are too good at hit and run attacks, and they can also kill pike units extremely fast. If you use the dash and heal ability, you can wipe out an army twice the size of yours with mounted grandmasters.

On a side note, I'm not sure if this is a bug or intentional, but as of now you have to pay a town you are attacking off to leave. Isn't that a bit unrealistic? I lost thirty units to a payoff when my seige equipment died because of the enormity of the Denwall garrison (good job making cities stronger, exactly how they should be now).

GPS51
10-16-2011, 12:40 PM
Ouch :( I had that but just built more siege gear from my assault camp when I was sieging makada last night.

Magicmud83
10-16-2011, 12:44 PM
Its funny I was talking about the same thing in chat yesterday and was making a post about it but didnt finish so was going to do it today. The heals should be removed from all but the hero units. Yesterday I ran some tests using non healing units and mixed armys vs all healing armys each of them were crushed with very little damage to the enemys. Mixed army vs Mounted slayers I placed my impalers up front with other melee behing them and archers behind them forming a wall, the slayers ran right into the front popping a potion and 100% charge at the same time which ripped my guy apart in seconds no loss for them. Full ogre army vs mounted slayers was the same deal but ogre took a few with them. My 50 unit goblin camp vs MGM and GM they ran up to the gates popped a potion and took the gates down like they were nothing then ran right past the melee into the archers eating all of them he had maye 10 units at start and lost maybe a couple of troops at most.

Would also be nice if charge could only be used as a charge, if the cav is already in combat or to close to a unit it cant use the ability it doesnt make sense they can click it whenever they please and gain 100% attack.

White935
10-16-2011, 12:46 PM
Its funny I was talking about the same thing in chat yesterday and was making a post about it but didnt finish so was going to do it today. The heals should be removed from all but the hero units. Yesterday I ran some tests using non healing units and mixed armys vs all healing armys each of them were crushed with very little damage to the enemys. Mixed army vs Slayers I placed my impalers up front with other melee behing them and archers behind them forming a wall, the slayers ran right into the front popping a potion and 100% charge at the same time which ripped my guy apart in seconds no loss for them. Full ogre army vs slayers was the same deal but ogre took a few with them. My 50 unit goblin camp vs MGM and GM they ran up to the gates popped a potion and took the gates down like they were nothing then ran right past the melee into the archers eating all of them he had maye 10 units at start and lost maybe a couple of troops at most.

Would also be nice if charge could only be used as a charge, if the cav is already in combat or to close to a unit it cant use the ability it doesnt make sense they can click it whenever they please and gain 100% attack.

you mean berserkers. Slayers cant self heal, berserkers can.

Magicmud83
10-16-2011, 12:47 PM
Just edited I ment mounted slayers.

Onomas
10-16-2011, 01:32 PM
I dont use healing to often in pvp battles, but do like the feature in pve. Its a good way to level up certain troops by sending them in to kill and heal at same time to get max kills over other troops. Be nice to keep this feature but make it for pve only perhaps?

Or have monks, shamman, clerics you can hire/make. This way you can heal if you want, but will cost population/army space/points to do so. See many rts games with their own healing unit. Would workwell in this game i fee. You then would have to use strategy to kill them off quick and defend them from the enemy.


Also for elfs. The hide feature, should it be used in pvp? I just started playing elves, and tried out a pvp match. Guy said he could see me. I didnt know. Its this working as intended or a need to be fixed thing?

Whatever changes the devs decide to make, change, or get rid of, they have to make sure they replace, change things to make us have to use strategy. Strategy enhancing has to be top goal, not nerfing things down.

White935
10-16-2011, 02:56 PM
Just edited I ment mounted slayers.

Mounted slayers got heal? oooo thats new. from my knowlege they only have "charge" but perhaps heal was added recently?

Magicmud83
10-16-2011, 04:29 PM
Might be new idk but when used just before they hit a unit you got a cav doing 200% damage one shoting all of your guys while healing 2000 damage over time so unless your also 1 shotting them and healing its over.

andreicde
10-16-2011, 04:39 PM
Might be new idk but when used just before they hit a unit you got a cav doing 200% damage one shoting all of your guys while healing 2000 damage over time so unless your also 1 shotting them and healing its over.

before , or at least for the grandmasters,the heal used to be 2000 per formation. Now,I don't know if it works different or not.

Magicmud83
10-16-2011, 04:43 PM
It might be different i've been testing them in pve and nothing can kill them with both charge and heal active. In PvP they stomped me without effort its just grab cav charge and click heal, 10secs later match over.

White935
10-16-2011, 04:59 PM
Yeah, i havnt fought enought to see how long meele vs meele is. but Mounted GM litterly gobbles up entire armeis before you even got a chance to react.

Magicmud83
10-16-2011, 08:28 PM
Its not just MGM orc beastriders do the same thing. Ran over a few poor fellow orc member to give them a try myself (hard to find non orcs for some reason) and even with the worst lag i've had had in this game causing my guys to run into a enemy npc town and get shot up for a min or two streamrolled right over them in seconds once I got the troops to do what I wanted.

RedXSol
10-16-2011, 09:50 PM
Limit the amount of SAME (E.g. Swordsmen) units to the size of there army.

E.g. 200-300 Point army, 3 area's Foot Units/Ranged Units/Mounted Units, 100 points per area.
When it comes to Siege and none combat Unit's also break that down into area's but not as much seen as they wont be effecting the battle as much.

The larger the army gets more points they can spend in a area. This way people aren't just using a army of Archer's or Horses.

Doing this means more tactics and strategies will come into the game people will have to control and think about placement micro-management allot more.

Once you add in this and then slowly balance out the units themselves, you will find battles to last longer and be more fun.

To me an army say Horses is just silly as really only way to counter it is army of pikemen, but who is going to run around with army just same unit due to fact PvP is random so the odds of facing an army of horses are slim.

So this is just my idea, to help balance the units and make PvP allot better.

Also sorry for bad English and grammar

Safey18
10-16-2011, 10:13 PM
Limit the amount of SAME (E.g. Swordsmen) units to the size of there army.

E.g. 200-300 Point army, 3 area's Foot Units/Ranged Units/Mounted Units, 100 points per area.
When it comes to Siege and none combat Unit's also break that down into area's but not as much seen as they wont be effecting the battle as much.

The larger the army gets more points they can spend in a area. This way people aren't just using a army of Archer's or Horses.

Doing this means more tactics and strategies will come into the game people will have to control and think about placement micro-management allot more.

Once you add in this and then slowly balance out the units themselves, you will find battles to last longer and be more fun.

To me an army say Horses is just silly as really only way to counter it is army of pikemen, but who is going to run around with army just same unit due to fact PvP is random so the odds of facing an army of horses are slim.

So this is just my idea, to help balance the units and make PvP allot better.

Also sorry for bad English and grammar

I actually think limiting the way you can structure your army as you are suggesting greatly decreases the amount of strategy and planning that goes into making an army. Everyone would just fill slot A with their strongest infantry, slot B with their strongest archers etc. I enjoy the way it is.

Magicmud83
10-16-2011, 11:28 PM
A little structure can be good but I think limiting how many of each type can make up a army is going a bit to far. Maybe terrain is the answer? What is Cav all around stats were lowered in swamps, archers in forests, heavy infantry in deserts ect this way you would WANT a more balenced army incase of attack otw to your target or at the very least you know what troops your liking to find in certain areas of the world and how best to counter them.

Just an idea since archers acc is lowered at night maybe they could take the world effects further but I'm sure they have their own plans for the game w/e they may be.

RedXSol
10-17-2011, 12:40 AM
I actually think limiting the way you can structure your army as you are suggesting greatly decreases the amount of strategy and planning that goes into making an army. Everyone would just fill slot A with their strongest infantry, slot B with their strongest archers etc. I enjoy the way it is.

Yeah your right, but there needs to be some type of way to stop these 100% same unit armies, there is no strategy or planning at all in just using strongest unit to make up your hole army.

Onomas
10-17-2011, 01:55 AM
I actually think limiting the way you can structure your army as you are suggesting greatly decreases the amount of strategy and planning that goes into making an army. Everyone would just fill slot A with their strongest infantry, slot B with their strongest archers etc. I enjoy the way it is.

There isnt much strategy or planning when you fill your entire army full of just 1 unit lol.

Everyone would just fill slot A with their strongest infantry, slot B with their strongest archers etc

And that would cause more strategy. Look at battles thru time in our history. No army was ever made up of all the same unit types. Archers would tear into the front lines, weakening them for a full frontal assault. As the heavy/light infantry engage on the front lines archers would pick off the rear or side. As calvary swung around the sides for a flank strike. Using spear for defense of archers, flanks, and use as reserves on the front line. Or use hannibals tactics, put your weak infantry in the middle and slowly back up, as your strongest infantry on the sides push forward. Encircle your enemy with calvary and have them completely surrounded.

This to me is strategy. More strategy in the above than just filling your army up with 1 unit. But i guess this game is just too fast paced for all of that.

Having 60 archers, 60 grandmasters, or 60 of anything really isnt strategy. If something isnt done, all you will see is armies of grandmasters or archers. Because people that like mixed armies will get sick of getting raped and resort to doing the same thing. Thats strategy? 120 grandmasters on the field............ the suspense is killing me.

Safey18
10-17-2011, 02:10 AM
There isnt much strategy or planning when you fill your entire army full of just 1 unit lol.



And that would cause more strategy. Look at battles thru time in our history. No army was ever made up of all the same unit types. Archers would tear into the front lines, weakening them for a full frontal assault. As the heavy/light infantry engage on the front lines archers would pick off the rear or side. As calvary swung around the sides for a flank strike. Using spear for defense of archers, flanks, and use as reserves on the front line. Or use hannibals tactics, put your weak infantry in the middle and slowly back up, as your strongest infantry on the sides push forward. Encircle your enemy with calvary and have them completely surrounded.

This to me is strategy. More strategy in the above than just filling your army up with 1 unit. But i guess this game is just too fast paced for all of that.

Having 60 archers, 60 grandmasters, or 60 of anything really isnt strategy. If something isnt done, all you will see is armies of grandmasters or archers. Because people that like mixed armies will get sick of getting raped and resort to doing the same thing. Thats strategy? 120 grandmasters on the field............ the suspense is killing me.

If you attacked me with only 60 of 1 unit you would not stand a chance. It's because I have a good strategy and well if your getting rolled by these all same unit armies you might want to spend some extra time revising the troops your using instead of complaining on here.

Onomas
10-17-2011, 02:30 AM
If you attacked me with only 60 of 1 unit you would not stand a chance. It's because I have a good strategy and well if your getting rolled by these all same unit armies you might want to spend some extra time revising the troops your using instead of complaining on here.

Wasnt complaining, was an open discussion. But easier to point finger telling someone they need to work on their strategy then to defend your statement or debate the topic? I win more than i lose, thanks.

You may use good strategy,im happy for you.

But this is still a strategy game, kind of gets disappointing facing the exact same army over and over because 85% of the players have no strategy except to zerg the enemy. With full armies of archers, grandmaster, etc.

I like variety is what my post was about, having full open-field battles with multiple troops, etc... Not how good your strategy is ;)

Safey18
10-17-2011, 02:48 AM
Wasnt complaining, was an open discussion. But easier to point finger telling someone they need to work on their strategy then to defend your statement or debate the topic? I win more than i lose, thanks.

You may use good strategy,im happy for you.

But this is still a strategy game, kind of gets disappointing facing the exact same army over and over because 85% of the players have no strategy except to zerg the enemy. With full armies of archers, grandmaster, etc.

I like variety is what my post was about, having full open-field battles with multiple troops, etc... Not how good your strategy is ;)

So now your saying that if you fill an army with only 1 type of unit and zerg is not a strategy and you don't like versing them even though you win most of the time? AND your saying you like battles with multiple troops and you don't like strategy? You need to think things through a little more before you post them.

Onomas
10-17-2011, 02:52 AM
So now your saying that if you fill an army with only 1 type of unit and zerg is not a strategy and you don't like versing them even though you win most of the time? AND your saying you like battles with multiple troops and you don't like strategy? You need to think things through a little more before you post them.

Fix your translator! You are not close to what i said.

Safey18
10-17-2011, 03:07 AM
Fix your translator! You are not close to what i said.

Then maybe you should speak proper english because what you said really doesn't make any sense.

RedXSol
10-17-2011, 04:04 AM
Back to topic guy's, fact is people are using army of the same Unit this isn't strategy at all.

They need to put a cap on how many of the same unit you can put into your army, this will force people to use different Unit's, and this also means people just cant max there army out with the strongest unit's. Cause if all we do is max our army out with 2-3 different units what's the point of even being able to make different troops.

So in long run if things stay the same E.g. Make a Stable and Archery Range and just build 2 same units over and over. Wont even need a barracks.

Wolfentir
10-17-2011, 04:41 AM
Then maybe you should speak proper english because what you said really doesn't make any sense.

You need to cool down a bit Safey.

Safey18
10-17-2011, 08:34 AM
You need to cool down a bit Safey.

Don't get me started on you as well.

Safey18
10-17-2011, 08:39 AM
Back to topic guy's, fact is people are using army of the same Unit this isn't strategy at all.

They need to put a cap on how many of the same unit you can put into your army, this will force people to use different Unit's, and this also means people just cant max there army out with the strongest unit's. Cause if all we do is max our army out with 2-3 different units what's the point of even being able to make different troops.

So in long run if things stay the same E.g. Make a Stable and Archery Range and just build 2 same units over and over. Wont even need a barracks.

They really don't, a well balanced army with the right troops will always beat one that has 100% one kind of troop. I know it's a little shocking that strategy and planning play a big role in a strategy game.

RedXSol
10-17-2011, 09:31 AM
They really don't, a well balanced army with the right troops will always beat one that has 100% one kind of troop. I know it's a little shocking that strategy and planning play a big role in a strategy game.

Well I had nice and well balanced army, and it got rolled in around 10-15sec's by same unit army.

I can tell allot strategy and planning went into that. Click once on your target and watch them die now that's strategy.

Sunleader
10-17-2011, 09:32 AM
As I already repeatet a couple of times

simple reason for all of same kind armys being OP is simply that the Units tend to get Bugged over time

Damage and Healing can be Bugged and goes sky high over time
which is main reason for such Armys to become OP

Means that Cavalry and Ranged Units no matter how they are mixed and which unit it actually is
will become OP with time due to the Speed and Range which cant bugged

another factor which cant be bugged are Health and Armor
so of course the Heavy Armored Cavalry with lots of health
like Grandmasters and Knights will become even more overpowerd

still no match against Archers and Rangers
which can thanks to their range oneshot anyone once they get bugged




No point in discussing balance when theres hardly units which have the values which they should have in the first place

Safey18
10-17-2011, 09:58 AM
Well I had nice and well balanced army, and it got rolled in around 10-15sec's by same unit army.

I can tell allot strategy and planning went into that. Click once on your target and watch them die now that's strategy.

I said well balanced WITH THE RIGHT TROOPS. Which you obviously didn't have. Test out every troop like I have and see whats best in different situations against different enemies. You can't just grab a bunch of troops and jump in a battle no matter how balanced you think your army is.

satyrion
10-17-2011, 10:56 AM
1.here should not me units cap, game should force players to make balanced armys and its not about Spear>Cavalry

satyrion
10-17-2011, 11:45 AM
Sorry but i coffed and press Enter before i finish So here i go again:D My opinion is that there should not be unit cap in armys, game should force player to make balanced armys and its not a matter of just rock>papper>scissors for a cav unit shouldn't be able to win even agaist Infantry, cav is all about (countering archers,mobility,tremple and flanking),for example an army of 10 cav units vs an army of 7/3(infantry/archers) shoudn't win as inf should be able to hold off Head on charges but should have high losses if they let em flank em but an army Of 2cav/3arch/5inf should be able to win both(execpt if u dont use properly the 2 units of cav) , now about the Spears, spears should serve as a faster way to deal with cavalry and not just hold them off like infantry So even 1 unit of spear with the protection of of 4inf units + 3 arch fireing+2 cav units backing up should be able to win against 10 cav with less losses because of the Spear unit(again if u let ur oponent flank u should still have increased losses) there much more to be added but i just give u the basic idea of Infantry Serving As the Tank(inf should be able to win against evrythink in melee but should be easy or harash with arch or flank with cav to wipe them), archers as the dps, cav having the mixed role as can inflict hevily looses when flanking but been less efective when attacking head on, and Spear having the role of defeating archers or cav(spear<inf,spear>arrow and cav) if u can't beat em with ur cav or u have other tactical plans for them.

andreicde
10-17-2011, 05:41 PM
Sorry but i coffed and press Enter before i finish So here i go again:D My opinion is that there should not be unit cap in armys, game should force player to make balanced armys and its not a matter of just rock>papper>scissors for a cav unit shouldn't be able to win even agaist Infantry, cav is all about (countering archers,mobility,tremple and flanking),for example an army of 10 cav units vs an army of 7/3(infantry/archers) shoudn't win as inf should be able to hold off Head on charges but should have high losses if they let em flank em but an army Of 2cav/3arch/5inf should be able to win both(execpt if u dont use properly the 2 units of cav) , now about the Spears, spears should serve as a faster way to deal with cavalry and not just hold them off like infantry So even 1 unit of spear with the protection of of 4inf units + 3 arch fireing+2 cav units backing up should be able to win against 10 cav with less losses because of the Spear unit(again if u let ur oponent flank u should still have increased losses) there much more to be added but i just give u the basic idea of Infantry Serving As the Tank(inf should be able to win against evrythink in melee but should be easy or harash with arch or flank with cav to wipe them), archers as the dps, cav having the mixed role as can inflict hevily looses when flanking but been less efective when attacking head on, and Spear having the role of defeating archers or cav(spear<inf,spear>arrow and cav) if u can't beat em with ur cav or u have other tactical plans for them.

Ok satyrion next time please structure your text,It was super hard to read. 2nd, the assumptions don't work because there is nothing that says melee should kill everything.Else it because full melee armies. And 3rd, you need to understand as Sunleader said that some units are freaking bugged. If they bug,it can be cavalry,archer,melee or w/e and they will wipe the floor against unit.WHy?because they have huge damage and can 1 hit k.o other units. So before they fix the bugged units bug,complaining about balance is pointless since you won't know if that army has a few bugged squads or if it's that type of unit that's the problem

satyrion
10-19-2011, 06:22 AM
Ye sorry i was kinda in a hurry, anyways i wasn't complaining i was just expressing my opinion about how it should work, and about the full melee armies, i said that Infantry should be superior only melee but should be esily to harash with bowmen or flank em with cavalry(it prob wouldn't work with the healing ability so that's why i agree with taking it off)And yes you are right 1st thinks 1st, buggs should go off and then we can check other issues.