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Cukulen
10-11-2011, 10:13 AM
rubbish.

ive played other mmo/pvp games in the past and this is just awful. i finally get my new pc delivered today, install the game and starting playing. wow how unbalanced is this game atm? 4 differently mixed armies get slaughtered, one within 5 seconds of the battle happening. he charges.. i get wiped. it just doesnt happen that quickly, fighting at least takes some 'time'.

majorly disappointed.. considering the amount of time and effort i've put in getting this to work. the army in question that wiped me was an army of orc slayers, my line of knights/swordsman/orc pikes just vanished beneath them.

i was so ready to start suggesting this to friends i've met on other games but now i won't be. simple as that im afraid. i want to like the game and i do regarding general pve fights etc.

so i'm sat here looking at the back of the box looking at all the things that are supposed to be in the game and arent and starting to wonder if i have grounds for a refund...

:(

ThatguyAds1298
10-11-2011, 10:19 AM
majorly disappointed.. considering the amount of time and effort i've put in getting this to work. the army in question that wiped me was an army of orc slayers, my line of knights/swordsman/orc pikes just vanished beneath them. :(

I find this hard to believe... REALLY?! :eek: Orc slayers? Uhm.. i was under the impression they are the worst unit the orcs have.. Hmm.

Maybe it was just bad luck or something, either that or your opponent was really really good i dunno.

Cukulen
10-11-2011, 10:23 AM
thats what i was thinking.. like dont get me wrong a) im not a kid hating on the game and b) do like most of what ive seen so far. but i dont wanna end up avoid pvp cos its crap. lol

ObscuredUSA
10-11-2011, 10:24 AM
Wait until you PVP a full army of archers.

ThatguyAds1298
10-11-2011, 10:26 AM
Yea mate, Wouldnt worry to much, the devs will probably work on balancing things pretty soon but they just sorting out all the crashes and bugs people are experiencing at the moment, Also theres a big patch today or tomorrow so keep an eye open for that too. It sohuld enable town sieges too but im pretty sure there will be a lot of fixes in the patch alongside it.

Magicmud83
10-11-2011, 10:43 AM
Slayers can be pretty good if you use their 2nd stance (forget its name) but a army full of slayers taking out a mixed seems odd. Not that I don't belive you.

Cukulen
10-11-2011, 10:44 AM
well same army of orc slayers just charged over yet another army of mine without me as much as hurting their little fingers.. again!

sort the bugs and make this playable, please? i got this cos it looked fun..

'build villages into towns and then mighty empires' 'cast mighty magic with over two dozen unique non existant spells' '

just 2 quotes from the back of the box, the main 2 parts that got me interested in this game. the 2 parts that dont exist.

Magicmud83
10-11-2011, 10:52 AM
'cast mighty magic with over two dozen unique non existant spells' You might lol but this "might" be in the game but not as we think it would be. Heros and a few units have "spells" .... kinda. Potion, battlecry, warg roar, maybe even the formations would add up to two dozen. God I hope this isnt the case though.

Safey18
10-11-2011, 11:14 AM
Hmmm I would say grow a pair or move on. The games hardcore in some aspects and some people don't seem to understand that it is also a strategy game and if you go PvP with low level crappy troops of course your going to get rolled.

Cukulen
10-11-2011, 11:16 AM
all my troops were max level and fully upgraded.

Safey18
10-11-2011, 11:19 AM
all my troops were max level and fully upgraded.

Now I'm really starting to think you don't know what your doing. Orcs suck atm in PvP anyway they will definately be working it out soon. Maybe you should try using the build that keeps rolling you instead of doing the same thing again and again, wandering why you never win. Learn from your mistakes!

White935
10-11-2011, 11:22 AM
Slayers are one of the weakest units the orcish race got. if you got taken out by them. you must have sent Labourers/Peseants or something else thats not suited for combat. as Archers and meele combined tear throught them with ease.

Cukulen
10-11-2011, 11:24 AM
i had 5 units of knights, 3 of swordsman, 4 units of rangers. he had about 10-12 units of slayers. the second time i tried charging him and lasted 2-3 seconds longer then usual. all his and my units were maxed.

Uzik
10-11-2011, 11:25 AM
Had a similar thing happen with the elf grand masters.


Best bet is to hope that they focus more on balance : (

White935
10-11-2011, 11:26 AM
Had a similar thing happen with the elf grand masters.


Best bet is to hope that they focus more on balance : (

Grand masters (atleast the mounted version, i cant refer to their foot variant) are powerful. slayers are outright horrible in combat (well their decentish meatshield but they tend to die quickly too).. so i dont see how this is possible.

Safey18
10-11-2011, 11:27 AM
I'm starting to think Cuk might be a troll lol

Cukulen
10-11-2011, 11:30 AM
im not a troll.. im just mystified why i got trodden into the dirt.. ive played plenty of rts games in the past 10+ years and never had such a hard time getting into the combat as this. it was only after several people told me slayers were rubbish that i thought to come on here to raise the issue, rather then be accused of things im not....

Safey18
10-11-2011, 11:37 AM
im not a troll.. im just mystified why i got trodden into the dirt.. ive played plenty of rts games in the past 10+ years and never had such a hard time getting into the combat as this. it was only after several people told me slayers were rubbish that i thought to come on here to raise the issue, rather then be accused of things im not....

Haha harden up your on the internet. Just try some different builds and see how they work. Get up some influence and buy some elite troops. I just finished my army of pure elite soldiers + a dragon. It has just under 4k strength. I could get it over 5k if I didn't use the dragon but I like him :D

Magicmud83
10-11-2011, 11:45 AM
i had 5 units of knights, 3 of swordsman, 4 units of rangers. he had about 10-12 units of slayers. the second time i tried charging him and lasted 2-3 seconds longer then usual. all his and my units were maxed.

As a orc player I find this odd since you also said your guys were fully leveled and upgraded and orcs have a lower attack rating. If you were paired right he should have had more then 10-12 unit to your 12, maybe 15 or 16 of them. Something is missing :)

Defilus
10-11-2011, 11:51 AM
I don't think the Slayers alone could have caused so much carnage, like the others said the Orc troops aren't very strong. However I might know what happened, did your opponents use Wargs? Small animals, not always easy to see, but they got an ability that deals damage to all enemies around them. stack a few of those Wargs and their ability can 1-shot everything around them. Wargs do not have a strength value which means that a lot of them can be put in low strength battles.

Haha harden up your on the internet. Just try some different builds and see how they work. Get up some influence and buy some elite troops. I just finished my army of pure elite soldiers + a dragon. It has just under 4k strength. I could get it over 5k if I didn't use the dragon but I like him :D
good lucking finding a PvP match with strength that high, lol.

Uzik
10-11-2011, 11:52 AM
I've also had an issue where sometimes my men simply don't attack anything. Doesn't matter what stance, whether I use attack move, or whether I outright click on an enemy to attack.

A game restart fixed it, but definitely would be a huge problem if it happened during PvP.

Cruzader
10-11-2011, 11:59 AM
Had a similar thing happen with the elf grand masters.

Me too, it was totally one-sided. I lost everything, I don't think he lost a single unit. I can blame some of that on it only being my 3rd pvp, and I can blame some of it on the fact that I hadn't yet researched Veterancy for all my unit types. But still, it was way too one-sided for that to explain how useless my troops were. There is definitely a huge balance issue at the moment.

The funny thing is that the matchmaker said our army strengths only differed by 1 point. I think the calculation of army strength must be seriously flawed.

Magicmud83
10-11-2011, 11:59 AM
I don't think the Slayers alone could have caused so much carnage, like the others said the Orc troops aren't very strong. However I might know what happened, did your opponents use Wargs? Small animals, not always easy to see, but they got an ability that deals damage to all enemies around them. stack a few of those Wargs and their ability can 1-shot everything around them. Wargs do not have a strength value which means that a lot of them can be put in low strength battles.


good lucking finding a PvP match with strength that high, lol.

I wanted to give that a try when I saw wargs roar also did damage but didnt get the chance. Would explain how he got eaten in a matter of seconds too if they were enough of them.

Uzik
10-11-2011, 12:05 PM
Me too, it was totally one-sided. I lost everything, I don't think he lost a single unit. I can blame some of that on it only being my 3rd pvp, and I can blame some of it on the fact that I hadn't yet researched Veterancy for all my unit types. But still, it was way too one-sided for that to explain how useless my troops were. There is definitely a huge balance issue at the moment.

The funny thing is that the matchmaker said our army strengths only differed by 1 point. I think the calculation of army strength must be seriously flawed.

I'm not sure if it takes level and upgrades into account as I had my n00b human army matched with a group of lvl 10 archers.

Sunleader
10-11-2011, 12:44 PM
You talk rubbish matey.....


A Full leveld and Upgraded Army
within 1 day ?
and killed in 5 secs by a melee rush ?


get real
I dont know what you smoked

either you are a troll or you have no idea what your talking about



Max lvl is 10 by the way
and Knights are extremly durable at lvl 10
usually they can take on ANY other Melee Unit

Onomas
10-11-2011, 01:40 PM
I use an all human army, 12 knights, 12 archers, 12 mounted knights, 5 trebs, handful of peasants, 6 carts, and have destroyed almost every orc army ive seen. Do well versus other humans, just elves and their rangers/grandmasters cause difficulty. But i am learning to deal with them with feign retreats and charges.

But 5 seconds? no way your army died in 5 seconds.

I am working on a new build now but i like the all human army, works well enough.

Sbshearer
10-11-2011, 02:11 PM
I think i was the one who killed you with slayer army. I'm a desert orc with armor bonus to slayer armor. I used their special formation and their shield ability too. I think i had about 12-15 units.
I am not proud of it. I don't think i should have won. I tried a lot of combinations, but this works for me best. I don't like it anymore than you do. I think the game needs balance and lot more tactical slower-paced battles. But as some peaple have already said before me, Orks are bad for PVP right now. The slayer army is the only chance i have to earn inf. , because other mixed combinations didn't work for me and my questline stopped after the 4th quest because of a bug.
I hope balance is coming soon....

White935
10-11-2011, 02:20 PM
I think i was the one who killed you with slayer army. I'm a desert orc with armor bonus to slayer armor. I used their special formation and their shield ability too. I think i had about 12-15 units.
I am not proud of it. I don't think i should have won. I tried a lot of combinations, but this works for me best. I don't like it anymore than you do. I think the game needs balance and lot more tactical slower-paced battles. But as some peaple have already said before me, Orks are bad for PVP right now. The slayer army is the only chance i have to earn inf. , because other mixed combinations didn't work for me and my questline stopped after the 4th quest because of a bug.
I hope balance is coming soon....

Slayers tends to lose in combat <.< am amased you won only with them. i guess swarming the enemy might work. but usually when i do my assautls the slayers are the first to go. ((fully upgrades and yeah i use ability/formations)

ThatguyAds1298
10-11-2011, 02:21 PM
Slayers tends to lose in combat <.< am amased you won only with them. i guess swarming the enemy might work. but usually when i do my assautls the slayers are the first to go. ((fully upgrades and yeah i use ability/formations)

Maybe we doing something wrong eh boss? :D

Sbshearer
10-11-2011, 02:24 PM
A lot of them died, but i won 10 pvp battles without losing a single battalion.

Uzik
10-11-2011, 04:04 PM
I use an all human army, 12 knights, 12 archers, 12 mounted knights, 5 trebs, handful of peasants, 6 carts, and have destroyed almost every orc army ive seen. Do well versus other humans, just elves and their rangers/grandmasters cause difficulty. But i am learning to deal with them with feign retreats and charges.

But 5 seconds? no way your army died in 5 seconds.

I am working on a new build now but i like the all human army, works well enough.

You just tried to attack my resource camp, was my 3rd battle and first victory : )

I really enjoyed that fight. There was a lot of moving men around, charging in and pulling back etc. I'm glad that my lack of experienced men and surplus of peasants was able to be overcome by the trebs and archers. Problem with my first two fights were:

1) Elf grand masters ran in and destroyed everything
2) Elf rangers raped my archers and then grand masters and blade storms wrecked everything


Think I am going to use trebs, archers and heavy infantry for my resource camps from now on.

I do think the game needs a good deal of slowing down, and tremendous balancing.

Onomas
10-11-2011, 04:56 PM
You just tried to attack my resource camp, was my 3rd battle and first victory : )

I really enjoyed that fight. There was a lot of moving men around, charging in and pulling back etc. I'm glad that my lack of experienced men and surplus of peasants was able to be overcome by the trebs and archers. Problem with my first two fights were:

1) Elf grand masters ran in and destroyed everything
2) Elf rangers raped my archers and then grand masters and blade storms wrecked everything


Think I am going to use trebs, archers and heavy infantry for my resource camps from now on.

I do think the game needs a good deal of slowing down, and tremendous balancing.

LOL that was just my infl gaining army, cannon fodder pretty much. Macemen and a handful of archers wont hold up well versus the army you had. I make up small armies and send them out win or lose to get infl.

If i had some trebs might have gone the other way though ;) Once i saw you had trebs and i had none i was beaten right off the bat. You did what you had to and won. Those trebs of yours were a pain in the butt.

Good fight nonetheless, good win for you.

Wolfentir
10-11-2011, 05:30 PM
Now everyone apologise to the Topic Starter as SBSHEARER has confirmed that his story was true and he wasn't trolling.

Dreamwalker
10-11-2011, 05:41 PM
Now everyone apologise to the Topic Starter as SBSHEARER has confirmed that his story was true and he wasn't trolling.

Ha! You guys were asking for that; didn't anyone ever consider that the slayer thing could be a bug?

I know you were defending DOF's honor and all, but no need to call people trolls.:)

Safey18
10-11-2011, 05:55 PM
good lucking finding a PvP match with strength that high, lol.

xD yeah it's just an experiment more then a useful army lol

Uzik
10-11-2011, 09:21 PM
Any all cavalry charge has the advantage of creating a massive lag spike that ensures the enemy army has no time to organize.

Wolfentir
10-11-2011, 09:28 PM
Ha! You guys were asking for that; didn't anyone ever consider that the slayer thing could be a bug?

I know you were defending DOF's honor and all, but no need to call people trolls.:)

Yep, and we want our community to act mature and be polite. No name calling and acting aggressively (I to newcomers or peeps with different opinions).

macamus
10-12-2011, 12:44 AM
Really? you get butchered one single time and come to forums whining? :P

knightl
10-12-2011, 12:54 AM
Really? you get butchered one single time and come to forums whining? :P

did you read any of the recent posts?

Cukulen
10-12-2011, 04:31 AM
Now everyone apologise to the Topic Starter as SBSHEARER has confirmed that his story was true and he wasn't trolling.

doubt that will happen mate.. lol

Dreamwalker
10-12-2011, 04:13 PM
doubt that will happen mate.. lol

They should, though...as I see it, you just encountered a rather nasty bug; hasn't everyone? I read every post on this thread and still don't see why they thought you were trolling.

And yeah, everbody else: please be nice. Some of you post quite intellegently on other threads and seem like wonderful people; no need to take your stress out on some random bugged player. ;)

UndeadSauron
10-12-2011, 04:46 PM
hmm interesting what you write.. I've met an all slayer army once.. tho I have DECIMATED them:P But to be honest.. when they did get to my units.. my units started to fall like flies/ won with pure tactic.. (he didnt have a single ranged/siedge unit.. and i was defending a camp:P). But i gues thats how orc should be..

Uriel
10-13-2011, 01:04 AM
PvP is currently broken -- and don't be a child and call me a troll because I happen to be offering constructive criticism for a game I think has a huge amount of potential.

I'm an experienced RTS player, and every PVP battle I have has been horrendous. I'm talking about me outranking the opponent, having a 60 unit high level army composed of all the highest level elven units, even a mix of some other high level units recruited from other races's cities. And yea, a singly warden/peasant to pick up loot.

I don't even think I killed one orc. This is absurd. I think it partially relates to the fact that the user interface for controlling units in battle is pretty basic and undeveloped -- click and drag, ctrl+number groups (which do NOT seem to be retained between battles). Not to mention that every units. All the units of every type clumped together in one huge cluster that takes too long to reorganize and put into ranks.

Please just balance this, and work on the user interface for unit control during battles and I think these problems would go away.

My two cents.

Safey18
10-13-2011, 03:37 AM
PvP is currently broken -- and don't be a child and call me a troll because I happen to be offering constructive criticism for a game I think has a huge amount of potential.

I'm an experienced RTS player, and every PVP battle I have has been horrendous. I'm talking about me outranking the opponent, having a 60 unit high level army composed of all the highest level elven units, even a mix of some other high level units recruited from other races's cities. And yea, a singly warden/peasant to pick up loot.

I don't even think I killed one orc. This is absurd. I think it partially relates to the fact that the user interface for controlling units in battle is pretty basic and undeveloped -- click and drag, ctrl+number groups (which do NOT seem to be retained between battles). Not to mention that every units. All the units of every type clumped together in one huge cluster that takes too long to reorganize and put into ranks.

Please just balance this, and work on the user interface for unit control during battles and I think these problems would go away.

My two cents.

Orcs suck. If your not a troll you just fail. Try a different build ;)

White935
10-13-2011, 03:43 AM
Orcs suck. If your not a troll you just fail. Try a different build ;)

only time i've ever won as orcs is when am useing cheap tricks like useing Fire to burn the enemy alive. and sacrifice my meele infantry to hold them. as in a straight up fight my slayers lose to the human swordsmen with ease, even with formations and ability useage.

andreicde
10-13-2011, 05:53 AM
PvP is currently broken -- and don't be a child and call me a troll because I happen to be offering constructive criticism for a game I think has a huge amount of potential.

I'm an experienced RTS player, and every PVP battle I have has been horrendous. I'm talking about me outranking the opponent, having a 60 unit high level army composed of all the highest level elven units, even a mix of some other high level units recruited from other races's cities. And yea, a singly warden/peasant to pick up loot.

I don't even think I killed one orc. This is absurd. I think it partially relates to the fact that the user interface for controlling units in battle is pretty basic and undeveloped -- click and drag, ctrl+number groups (which do NOT seem to be retained between battles). Not to mention that every units. All the units of every type clumped together in one huge cluster that takes too long to reorganize and put into ranks.

Please just balance this, and work on the user interface for unit control during battles and I think these problems would go away.

My two cents.

I don't believe this.I never saw an orc with any build tried against me to ever win. And I am an elf using mounted grandmasters all the time.

GPS51
10-13-2011, 08:44 AM
Hehe hey andrecide.. i suggest playing septimus then he's uh.. thought creatively lets say. (which I discovered last night)

SysOpPsyche
10-13-2011, 11:35 AM
Hehe hey andrecide.. i suggest playing septimus then he's uh.. thought creatively lets say. (which I discovered last night)
Is he one of the Dev's?

I played him last night.

He had an all Mounted Slayers/Impaler army (lvl 6's) and I had my fodder army of Goblin Raiders (have plenty of them due the goblin spawn bug and me not wanting to discard them - I'd rather send them in as the front line to soak up damage while the rest of my army moves into position), um Goblin Archers(whatever they are called) + marauders (Orc Archers) with about 10 Ogres.

Anyhow, I send my army in to zerg the npcs on the map (because I saw he was using all mounted and didn't want to fight his army in the open and the NPC's had a palisade camp/hill). He goes to the center of the map. My army isn't taking any damage from the NPC's (well except that dang Catapult killing a few goblins from a couple of my units). Then all of sudden he sends in his whole army on mine, I had cleared about half the NPC's and was partially in the camp.

When his cavalry hit my army it was like a dang steamroller running right over my army, his units didn't even stop when attacking - they literally just moved over my army and left it as 'Roadkill'. I call BS on that because I have those units and mine Can't do that (Charge doesn't do squat - though I wish it did what he did but it doesn't). Furthermore, something was wacky about it since all my units were reduced to uniform amount of health (5%) regardless of the units stats and number of members (the cav units don't have enough members in it to do that much damage to goblins because goblins weak and pathetic as they are have a much higher unit member count and mine were dispersed too much for AoE to do it). At that point the we disconnect because the server is going down.

Now, granted I like how that cavalry charge worked (even if its not fun being the one getting turned into roadkill) but it definately needs to be adjusted/tweaked in the damage it does. Furthermore, adding it into the game would be unbalancing because even though it accurately depicts a cavalry charge, the UI is too gimped to counter it. [ie. you can't select a group of units and have them in a formation with each other - treat them as a single unit] and that makes dealing with cavalry charges impossibly difficult because thats the only tried and true way of dealing with them (combined arms tactics) And thats with some sort of defensive unit - which the game is lacking - the game only has palisades/walls not phalanx/shieldbearer units.

Magicmud83
10-13-2011, 12:14 PM
Have only been able to play 3 pvp matches since I got the game but am 3-0 with my orc army. Its realy about making the most of your numbers sending a group or two to meet them head on then using the rest to suround them so all of your guys get some swings in rather then them all bunched up waiting for a orc to die so they can move up. Matches were vs 1elf and 2 orcs but with such a low pvp count it doesnt mean much tbh.

Uzik
10-13-2011, 01:33 PM
The only gripe I have with the actual combat is not being able to more effectively create formations with multiple units.


Also, it would be nice to have like 2 minutes of paused time to arrange your units before it starts. An all cavalry army can bullrush pretty effectively when your mixed human army is slowllly arranging itself.

Magicmud83
10-13-2011, 01:38 PM
The only gripe I have with the actual combat is not being able to more effectively create formations with multiple units.


Also, it would be nice to have like 2 minutes of paused time to arrange your units before it starts. An all cavalry army can bullrush pretty effectively when your mixed human army is slowllly arranging itself.

Would love 2-3 mins to set things up its kinda the "S" in RTS. Being dropped into a fight without prep works if we had a ambush type feature but even then the guys who laid the trap should get to set up their armys.

LiTos456
10-13-2011, 04:45 PM
Folks, just a quit notice, you can have a discussion but please no insults, I've seen a couple of instances of people calling others trolls here, nobody is trolling. Thanks.