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View Full Version : Impossible to PvP appeal to the Devs


Sunleader
10-08-2011, 04:21 PM
Well after another 5 Battles my Statistic has not become better

So Far I have 5 Victorys, 3 Defeats, 41 Out of Sync and maybe about 20 or 30 tries were the Searching for Battle Screen did not stop anymore and I forced me to crash the game



Just now I tried 5 times to PvP
well over 50 Influence should have been awarded yet I got 0 Influence since every single Battle went out of sync
and every single battle went out of Sync AFTER I already engaged into the Battle
so I lost Units for nothing




I once more try to Appeal to the Devs
pls either fix those Issues
or at least make some workaround till you fix it
by simply awarding Influence at the Beginning of a Battle or for Kills during the Battle
or by deciding the Victor by most kills when it goes out of sync
or anything like that


Greetz Sun
ps I am sorry for those whose Armys I partly crushed today without even awarding Influence for it

Safey18
10-08-2011, 07:55 PM
Yeah I'm out syncing in 90% of fights now too. Seems to be my first attack causes it to happen. It sucks because now I have 5 full 60 battalion armies and my town also being full so theres not much to do but PvP and I LOVE the PvP in this game. I'll keep lvling troops till they work out the syncing issue.

Sunleader
10-09-2011, 11:38 AM
Bumping this in hope the Devs notice
this is a very annoying thing after all

Jarno Montonen
10-09-2011, 12:30 PM
Hey, obviously this is a very high priority issue but there are a lot of reasons why OOS can happen. One being attempts to cheat by either player. Now, we are not aware of any cases and don't believe that this is really the reason. Anyway, we'll do our best to get the numbers of OOSs down asap.

Sunleader
10-09-2011, 05:11 PM
Actually as I said
since this is a Big Issue with alot of work involved (yes I know what I am talking about)

I would still ask to make a walkaround for this
by at least having the Server decide a Victor upon losses and award the Influence so its not a total waste to pvp

as for the matter itself



Out of Sync most basic reason is lag

If Processing of Unit Damage and Movement is done by several Mashines it can go different ways depending on the ping


One guy is Giving an Order to his Units on his own Mashine while the other Mashine still is informed about the Unit going without orders
now Mashine one has been retreating Units for about 2 seconds
and Mashine two has been fighting with those Units for about 2 seconds

Health and Position of the Unit will be different on Both Mashines now
causing a Syncronization fault


Strategy Games on Lan usually give Priority to the Server in that case
means the Server Player will give the status to the other Mashines and will override the Data

Online based Strategy Games however cant work by this
as there is no Player as Server
so usually its done by processing only graphical data on the Client and leave all Gameplay Procession to the Server


However in this Game the Client seems to be Processing the complete Gameplay himself

So to stop Syncronization Errors there are two possible ways

1. Allow the Mashines to Override each others Data
which would bring up the question which Mashine will be prioritized

2. Let all Data run over the Server to have the Server create a syncronization lag for both Mashines causing both Mashines to receive the Processing Data with a syncronized delay and those be able to process the data without syncronization errors

Safey18
10-09-2011, 06:28 PM
What Sun said xD. Theres no way this can be cheating. If you play with an army over about 300 strength you will get OOS. It is happening to EVERYONE so unless everyone is cheating I'm gonna say thats not the issue.

axal011
10-09-2011, 09:34 PM
I wouldn't know. As far as I do know, every battle i had that was less than 100 strengh didn't oos.. which is why i never have a huge army.

Safey18
10-09-2011, 09:39 PM
I wouldn't know. As far as I do know, every battle i had that was less than 100 strengh didn't oos.. which is why i never have a huge army.

Yeah very small amounts of troops like 100 strength don't lag much and therefore don't OOS. It's just when you want to use a real army ;) haha

Joseph Visscher
10-09-2011, 09:53 PM
Actually as I said
since this is a Big Issue with alot of work involved (yes I know what I am talking about)

I would still ask to make a walkaround for this
by at least having the Server decide a Victor upon losses and award the Influence so its not a total waste to pvp

as for the matter itself



Out of Sync most basic reason is lag

If Processing of Unit Damage and Movement is done by several Mashines it can go different ways depending on the ping


One guy is Giving an Order to his Units on his own Mashine while the other Mashine still is informed about the Unit going without orders
now Mashine one has been retreating Units for about 2 seconds
and Mashine two has been fighting with those Units for about 2 seconds

Health and Position of the Unit will be different on Both Mashines now
causing a Syncronization fault


Strategy Games on Lan usually give Priority to the Server in that case
means the Server Player will give the status to the other Mashines and will override the Data

Online based Strategy Games however cant work by this
as there is no Player as Server
so usually its done by processing only graphical data on the Client and leave all Gameplay Procession to the Server


However in this Game the Client seems to be Processing the complete Gameplay himself

So to stop Syncronization Errors there are two possible ways

1. Allow the Mashines to Override each others Data
which would bring up the question which Mashine will be prioritized

2. Let all Data run over the Server to have the Server create a syncronization lag for both Mashines causing both Mashines to receive the Processing Data with a syncronized delay and those be able to process the data without syncronization errors

All of your examples are sadly false. The game works in beats of 0.25 seconds, which is 250ms or within 250 Ping, every command you make it sent to the other player(s) as well as all of their commands inwhich each player simulates the game then by locally per beat, the next beat will not begin until all packets are received for that beat. Out of sync happens if unit health damage etc etc many different things are not the same atwhich time an out of sync dump log is written detailing that player's stats of everything ingame running, which we can compare the two logs of each players to find where it went out of sync.

The main enemy right now behind out of sync is extremely rare coding errors, which are being fixed asap, but logs of these are welcome. There should be reward if it goes out of sync but it should also close the game fully afterwards as this will reduce the number of out of syncs as these errors will no longer influence the game.

If both players fully exit the game and go back in then start a pvp match the odds of the game going out of sync will be greatly reduced.

Either way, it will be fixed in time and I am very sorry we did not have the time to fix it before release, But please remember Bugs aren't the problem, figuring out how to fix them is.

Safey18
10-10-2011, 01:09 AM
Hmm well if OOSing is because of very rare things why does every battle that I use my full army in go OOS. I'm talking literally over 30 games in a row on different days. Well hopefully you guys do work it out :D does distance (around the world) from the other player or server contribute to OOSing?

Edit: I actually think it could be either my dragon or my bugged archers that are causing me to OOS. I just did a PvP with 54 battalions of brand new archers and I didn't OOS. Everytime I shoot a fireball with my dragon I OOS just after it hits the ground.

macamus
10-10-2011, 05:20 AM
Just throwing in my experience regarding this issue.

I have been able to complete several 700-900 fights just fine. But the lagg in some of them was really really intense.

After I play about 5-6 fights without getting any bugs, the scrolls with the names of the different places in the world starts getting glued to my screen, and when this happen I basicly always get out of sync or fail to connect to other players. But if I restart the game it usually works again, at least for a bit

Sunleader
10-10-2011, 08:03 AM
All of your examples are sadly false. The game works in beats of 0.25 seconds, which is 250ms or within 250 Ping, every command you make it sent to the other player(s) as well as all of their commands inwhich each player simulates the game then by locally per beat, the next beat will not begin until all packets are received for that beat. Out of sync happens if unit health damage etc etc many different things are not the same atwhich time an out of sync dump log is written detailing that player's stats of everything ingame running, which we can compare the two logs of each players to find where it went out of sync.

The main enemy right now behind out of sync is extremely rare coding errors, which are being fixed asap, but logs of these are welcome. There should be reward if it goes out of sync but it should also close the game fully afterwards as this will reduce the number of out of syncs as these errors will no longer influence the game.

If both players fully exit the game and go back in then start a pvp match the odds of the game going out of sync will be greatly reduced.

Either way, it will be fixed in time and I am very sorry we did not have the time to fix it before release, But please remember Bugs aren't the problem, figuring out how to fix them is.

Ok
I.ll forgive that you earnestly keep ignoring my pleading about a Workaround
guess this wont happen then
if you dont even comment it I guess you dont even want to consider it





then with the remaining stuff ......

You are saying my Statement is False
yet you are saying that the current Game is pretty much working after my second example of Online Games working

a 250ms beat that waits for both Mashines is exactly what I said
a Syncronized Lag caused by the Server to keep Syncronization
but well guess this is partly my fault as I am not able to translate this properly




As for the Bug itself
Calling it "Rare" is a pretty daring statement
I had about 30 Battles so far of which over 20 went out of sync
actual chance on this error is at least 66% in this case
and that only because I partly used Armys with very few troops in them
which are pressing the percentage since with any Army above 500+ strengh I had not even ONE Battle which did not go Out of Sync



But I am not here to discuss something like that with you guys
I am well aware that I cant mess with professionals


So as far as I understand you the Clients Process the Gameplay
then send it to the server
which is delaying the packages until both partys have send em (which would explain the massive lag upon ordering Units)
when all packages are received it forwards em to the players

Well as I said this is pretty much the second method I explained

But something is going wrong
well we all know that

now apparently the chance of OOS increases with army size

Which would actually point on lag or networking issues but not to a coding error
but well as I said I am not messing with the Experts


So leaving all this aside
I hope this is going to be fixed in soon future
as it is impossible to pvp with any larger army as it is now


Greetz Sun

Joseph Visscher
10-10-2011, 04:57 PM
Sunleader I know it seems like lag, but its not, I personally have had battles with under 1 fps, literary millions of troops, it worked fine aswell with network limitations, disconnections are still a problem they need to be able to reconnect seamlessly I agree; as I said, this is coding problems that are fixable we just need to go onto your homelands and check the errors your homeland obviously has picked up.


And professionalism is ambitiously earned not dictated, and with this game being Reverie's first game I will never claim to be until you tell me so.