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Eightball
10-06-2011, 11:44 PM
Why, oh why, do they beat absolutely anything. This is so unbalanced its unreal. Basically whoever has the most archers wins. Everyone is now doing it, because they say, I got fed up getting beat by archer armies, so I joined in. I even managed a surround on one guy with melee all around him, most of them died before they could even close the distance to hit anything. This is so sad its pathetic. It actually MAKES me want to Alt+F4 as soon as I see an all archer army, I don't feel like losing my army to such an unbalanced player.

Something really needs to be done about this badly. Oh and people, if you don't want people ALT+F4'ing on you, try using a balanced army.

Wolfentir
10-07-2011, 12:24 AM
So calvarly doesn' work aginst archers?

Eightball
10-07-2011, 12:47 AM
Nothing does. If you try all cavalary vs all archers, your cav will die before they can get 2 hits in.

cleavertrash
10-07-2011, 12:52 AM
i am told with mondays patch that all sides and all units getting a re balance done archers miss rate goes up they going to buff up cav ect and nerf archers and allow real counter units to be played so if you have archer army vs cav army cav army will win easy as new balance will make cav take way less dmg vs archers ect so i am told thats what mondays balance patch is about,


i like to know when they plan to add magic in game i was told magic would be added week 1 or 2 of retail and ships later that month

axal011
10-07-2011, 01:02 AM
That is a bunch of Bull your talking. I had mounted Grand masters, only two groups and i killed 6 groups of archers.. Their not overpowered..

axal011
10-07-2011, 01:03 AM
i am told with mondays patch that all sides and all units getting a re balance done archers miss rate goes up they going to buff up cav ect and nerf archers and allow real counter units to be played so if you have archer army vs cav army cav army will win easy as new balance will make cav take way less dmg vs archers ect so i am told thats what mondays balance patch is about,


i like to know when they plan to add magic in game i was told magic would be added week 1 or 2 of retail and ships later that month


They don't need to buff up Cavs.. when I played my human kingdom, and got into a PVP.. i had 40 knights while he only had 10 groups of cav and wiped out my 40 knights "not swordsman" So cavalery don't need a buff, they need a nerf... and archers already miss "Alot" and they cant hit moving targets..

sCor
10-07-2011, 01:07 AM
That is a bunch of Bull your talking. I had mounted Grand masters, only two groups and i killed 6 groups of archers.. Their not overpowered..

He isn't talking of 6 groups, he is talking of 60 groups. Once they are reasonably leveled they become unbeatable.

Archers need a serious Nerf, plain and simple. Either reduce their health or their damage.

axal011
10-07-2011, 01:09 AM
He isn't talking of 6 groups, he is talking of 60 groups. Once they are reasonably leveled they become unbeatable.

Archers need a serious Nerf, plain and simple. Either reduce their health or their damage.

Well if it was to become a nerf, then I would say Reduce their health, because reducing damage will make them useless.

axal011
10-07-2011, 01:18 AM
i am told with mondays patch that all sides and all units getting a re balance done archers miss rate goes up they going to buff up cav ect and nerf archers and allow real counter units to be played so if you have archer army vs cav army cav army will win easy as new balance will make cav take way less dmg vs archers ect so i am told thats what mondays balance patch is about,


i like to know when they plan to add magic in game i was told magic would be added week 1 or 2 of retail and ships later that month

Archers already miss Alot "Before the enemy reaches the archers line" because of moving targets. Archers don't need a nerf in missing, because if you watch closely, they usually start hitting after their third attack.

axal011
10-07-2011, 01:32 AM
Will add one more thought


If you were to suggest nerfing archers, there are three things

Health
Damage
Accuracy

Now Which one would you nerf? Damage? Health? Accuracy?

If you nerf their Health, would you increase their damage? or Accuracy?
If you nerf their damage, would you increase their Health or Accuracy?
If you nerf their Accuracy, Would you increase their health or Damage?

Its logic and common sense that only ONE thing should be nerfed. Not all three because then it becomes an obsolete unit

Eightball
10-07-2011, 01:58 AM
I'm not saying archers need a nerf, maybe certain units just need a buff vs them.

This is how a battle goes vs an archer army -

Your melee units stand around doing nothing, barely hitting, maybe 10% of your melee units are actually doing anything.

100% of your opponents army, is hitting you, all at the same time, with horrendous damage. Most of your units will be dead before they even get in melee range. The rest will not last 30 seconds, I guarantee it.

If you say otherwise, then you were up against lvl 1 archers or something, not a properly built army. Try it, make a 400 odd strength army, balance it, mix the units, and walk around until you get in a fight with an archer army. See how you fare. Badly. The only thing in your army that will do any dmg to them, will be your own archers, however, since they will have 10x more archers than you, you will fail.

Sadly, thats how it goes atm. It doesn't help that crossbowmen and possibly other archers are getting bugged out and getting 1500 dmg with 40 regen.

The balance in this game atm is a joke, I really hope that tuesdays patch will help this, but I really doubt it. Part of the skewed balance is that melee units just DO NOT perform as they should. They do not 'surround' automatically and try to spread out looking for gaps to hit units. They will just stand around like ******s. The attack move command (toggle, seriously, why is it a toggle?) is broken to hell, your units will not respond as they should. Half the squad will fight, the other half will hang back beside your archers, assuming they have actually survived that long, because 1 volley of archer fire from an archer army, will kill 1/4 of your men outright. The same goes for Cavalry, seriously, your Cavalry will likely die before they can even make any kind of impact whatsoever against archers. It is a joke.

Everyone is using archer armies to attack now, if you haven't come across one yet, you will, then you will hate them as much as me.

Balance in this game is just a joke tbh. This company should be glad nobody has reviewed this game yet or even realised it has released, because if it starts to get reviewed, I guarantee you most of them will be 1/10 scores, between the skewed balance and plethora of bugs. Nothing in this game works, some people can't even log into their towns, most of the towns are bugged, the Orc race is totally screwed, gates are bugged, walls are bugged, attack commands are bugged, melee units are bugged, archers are OP, PVP barely works at all, nothing works. Oh, and to top it all off, on Tuesday, people are going to start attacking your town too. Watch those archer and trebuchet armies devastate your town if you don't have the same to counter it.

macamus
10-07-2011, 02:14 AM
Haha I gotta giggle

All archer armies are extremely easy to beat. You just have to use your units abilities and play it wisely after all its a strategy game right? But with a well rounded army (as an elf) its really really easy to destroy the human pure xbow/archer armies. I met a couple pure archer/xbow armies level 8+ and majority of my units was 6-8


I gained 300+ wealth yesterday from PvPing alot and only lost 1 fight because my mounted rangers didnt shoot for some reason. So saying that all archer armies are going around and killing everything is NOT true.

axal011
10-07-2011, 02:14 AM
I'm not saying archers need a nerf, maybe certain units just need a buff vs them.

This is how a battle goes vs an archer army -

Your melee units stand around doing nothing, barely hitting, maybe 10% of your melee units are actually doing anything.

100% of your opponents army, is hitting you, all at the same time, with horrendous damage. Most of your units will be dead before they even get in melee range. The rest will not last 30 seconds, I guarantee it.

If you say otherwise, then you were up against lvl 1 archers or something, not a properly built army. Try it, make a 400 odd strength army, balance it, mix the units, and walk around until you get in a fight with an archer army. See how you fare. Badly. The only thing in your army that will do any dmg to them, will be your own archers, however, since they will have 10x more archers than you, you will fail.

Sadly, thats how it goes atm. It doesn't help that crossbowmen and possibly other archers are getting bugged out and getting 1500 dmg with 40 regen.

The balance in this game atm is a joke, I really hope that tuesdays patch will help this, but I really doubt it. Part of the skewed balance is that melee units just DO NOT perform as they should. They do not 'surround' automatically and try to spread out looking for gaps to hit units. They will just stand around like ******s. The attack move command (toggle, seriously, why is it a toggle?) is broken to hell, your units will not respond as they should. Half the squad will fight, the other half will hang back beside your archers, assuming they have actually survived that long, because 1 volley of archer fire from an archer army, will kill 1/4 of your men outright. The same goes for Cavalry, seriously, your Cavalry will likely die before they can even make any kind of impact whatsoever against archers. It is a joke.

Everyone is using archer armies to attack now, if you haven't come across one yet, you will, then you will hate them as much as me.

Balance in this game is just a joke tbh. This company should be glad nobody has reviewed this game yet or even realised it has released, because if it starts to get reviewed, I guarantee you most of them will be 1/10 scores, between the skewed balance and plethora of bugs. Nothing in this game works, some people can't even log into their towns, most of the towns are bugged, the Orc race is totally screwed, gates are bugged, walls are bugged, attack commands are bugged, melee units are bugged, archers are OP, PVP barely works at all, nothing works. Oh, and to top it all off, on Tuesday, people are going to start attacking your town too. Watch those archer and trebuchet armies devastate your town if you don't have the same to counter it.


Can't disagree with that being said. Though Ive not come across an all archer army.. Mostly Calvery armies. and to put this to a note as well, Calvery are OP as archers would be.. I had 40 knights and this guy maybe had 15 groups of calvery, and slaughtered my knights with no problem.

Eightball
10-07-2011, 02:23 AM
Haha I gotta giggle

All archer armies are extremely easy to beat. You just have to use your units abilities and play it wisely after all its a strategy game right? But with a well rounded army (as an elf) its really really easy to destroy the human pure xbow/archer armies. I met a couple pure archer/xbow armies level 8+ and majority of my units was 6-8


I gained 300+ wealth yesterday from PvPing alot and only lost 1 fight because my mounted rangers didnt shoot for some reason. So saying that all archer armies are going around and killing everything is NOT true.


Please tell me how, because atm micromanaging your units is a joke, you can barely give out 2 commands per 10 seconds as it is atm, because half the time your commands just don't even get registered. I have tried different formations, like the circle one, loose formation etc, doesn't help at all. Cavalry should be the counter to archers, yet they don't, they die like everything else. All you can currently do is try to attack move your melee units, possibly micro a target with your archers to make sure they all get in range, then maybe a little micro on cav, anything more than that is just not going to happen because of the length of time it takes to issue commands to units. When a command finally does get accepted by a unit, it takes 1-2 seconds of spamming a flag marker for each unit then removing it until it has finished all your unit selection commands. The lack of polish is phenomenal. You don't even want to know what my APM is in Starcraft 2 and Dawn of War 2.

Eightball
10-07-2011, 02:26 AM
Can't disagree with that being said. Though Ive not come across an all archer army.. Mostly Calvery armies. and to put this to a note as well, Calvery are OP as archers would be.. I had 40 knights and this guy maybe had 15 groups of calvery, and slaughtered my knights with no problem.

You are probably right on that too, I wouldn't be surprised if Cavalry were the next down OP unit, however they do cost a horrendous amount of resources to purchase, so they would be understandably so. Archers/Crossbowmen can be purchased for 200-300 gold each, or less if you use other resources too and make them yourself.

Ducard
10-07-2011, 03:02 AM
What about implementing some kind of minimum range archers can shoot at?
So when Melee Units get into certain range the archers have to use melee weapons themselves and make them less powerful and more vulnerable to attacks but does not make them obsolete.

Also I think it would force players to mix out their armies since they need units too that can keep enemy armies at bay while their archers can shoot from distance.
That way it would make battles more realistic without nerfing or buffing any stats of units.

The same thing is also implemented in Total war series btw.

Eightball
10-07-2011, 04:03 AM
What about implementing some kind of minimum range archers can shoot at?
So when Melee Units get into certain range the archers have to use melee weapons themselves and make them less powerful and more vulnerable to attacks but does not make them obsolete.

Also I think it would force players to mix out their armies since they need units too that can keep enemy armies at bay while their archers can shoot from distance.
That way it would make battles more realistic without nerfing or buffing any stats of units.

The same thing is also implemented in Total war series btw.

Yep, thats exactly how most games deal with it. Ranged units in melee, can no longer fire. Total war, Dawn of War etc.

axal011
10-07-2011, 04:08 AM
Yep, thats exactly how most games deal with it. Ranged units in melee, can no longer fire. Total war, Dawn of War etc.

I have to agree to this... BUT! thats for open field.. what about on walls, or behind a fortified structure? :)


ALSO to note.. They need to make it to where Soldiers can still attack when getting hit with arrows.. Ive seen my hero get hit and it interupts his attacks, so he cant attack at all when being hit

Eightball
10-07-2011, 04:51 AM
I have to agree to this... BUT! thats for open field.. what about on walls, or behind a fortified structure? :)


ALSO to note.. They need to make it to where Soldiers can still attack when getting hit with arrows.. Ive seen my hero get hit and it interupts his attacks, so he cant attack at all when being hit

Well if you are behind a wall, you aren't going to get melee'd are you? If the enemy is behind your wall or on your tower meleeing you too, you deserve not to shoot lol. There are walls and castles and terrain features in those other games too you know. And if archers interrupt attacks, thats just 1 more thing wrong with them making them OP.

Gongora
10-07-2011, 04:56 AM
The guy is right, I used fully upgraded mounted knights lvl 5 all homeland upgrades for armor and attack, and military mastery, still got the **** kicked out of me by archers lower lvl then me before I could even flank them out in the open....Archers need a fix.

redindus
10-07-2011, 06:01 AM
Well having armored unit formations moving in like Spartans or Roman Shield Walls slowly then have Cavarly flank them around the corner. Gotta remember who ever control the high ground, the archers are deadly.

Not sure if there is smoke or anything that can reduce their line of sight, this can be another tricks to shoot at something that not actually there.

andreicde
10-07-2011, 06:02 AM
Hm I do agree archers need a nerf.I already had the issue with going full cav which is supposed to be powerful against full archers and as surprising as it seems,it ended up with me losing that match in a few seconds :D.It's what was annoying since cavs are supposed to be good against archers yet when archers got the hit on my cavs it was basically a k.o

redindus
10-07-2011, 06:16 AM
Well becareful for pikemen or long speared units, they can kill calavary easy. Most archers shouldnt be able to kill heavy armored units, would need armor piercing like heavy crossbows, etcs. Longbows can take out soft targets, but for armorer units would be pretty difficult to take out in distance. Shortbows are meant to take out soft targets in very close ranges, shouldnt be able to take out armored units. Unless there headshot through the eye holes, that would be lucky shot.

Now im not sure about magics, if there is arcane archers, that can hurt armorer units. Imagine Lightning arrows hit armored units, it would hurt really bad, cuz lightning fly and fizzled all over the metal plates and a chance to paralized the unit.

Sunleader
10-07-2011, 07:36 AM
Guys
I had an all Archer Army
and lost big Time vs balanced Army of Cavalry and Crossbows with other stuff around



Dont get this wrong
Problem is not the Unit Archer
its the Currently Bugged Lvl system


Right now Units which survive many Battles for example Quests
get bugged
they gain Damage stats of 1000 damage points per Arrow
which is then killing off Cavalry and anything else in no time


I for example Elven Ranger and Human Archers which do 700 and more with each Arrow
of course if you have a full army of those they will get unbeatable since nobody can get close

My Swordsmen who are bugged as well also do 700 with each hit
but theres no way to Bug the Health so thanks to that the Unit with highest Range which is currently Human and Elven Archers will always be the strongest



But thats not a Balancing problem
Its a Bug
since those are never the True Values of those Units
and since only damage heal usw gets bugged
you cant beat em even when having heavy bugged cavalry since those die before they can start to onehit them





So maybe stop thinking about Nerfs on Units
and better think about how to Fix this annoying Bug which keeps giving Units bugged Damage Counts


You want to know my Strongest Elven Ranger squad ?

Its got 92000 damage as Squad
your free to calculate how much damage each of em does


Greetz Sun

Vish_Virtus
10-07-2011, 08:40 AM
Nerf there Health as they wear no armour. And there Accuracy should be lowered when they are being rushed. they should be good if they are standing still. Crossbows do wear armor not sure about them.

A all arrow army is truely the best.

Onomas
10-07-2011, 09:20 AM
Archers dont need a nerf. They work as intended. Archers are bad ass, simple as that. Look at our history in real life. Some of the largest battles were won by veteran archers against far superior armies.

Take the hundred year war for example. English outnumbered 10:1 one by the french, lost huge. It crippled the french army.

•1346 Battle of Crécy August 26. English longbowmen soundly defeat French cavalry at Abbeville. Details: Crécy was one of history's most decisive battles. After the battle of Sluys, Edward III landed in Normandy in July 1346 with about 10,000 men. The French pursued. Edward III decided to halt near Crecy in Normandy and to prepare for battle the next day. However, the French vanguard made contact and started to attack without the benefit of a
plan. The French made as many as 15 attacks and the English checked each one in turn mainly because of the English longbowmen. At the end, the French were decimated and the English had a decisive victory.

"This battle established the military supremacy of the English / Welsh longbow over the French combination of crossbow and armoured knights (due to the yeoman archer's significantly greater rate of fire and range than that of the contemporary crossbow) and altered significantly the way in which war was conducted for a considerable period of time thereafter"



But the fact these people use nothing but grand masters and crush everything in their path do need looked at. Like the guy talking about 2 units destroying 6 units for example. There is a good bit of unbalance in this game, but nerfing archers is not the siolution.

Armor piercing should be a tech that has to be researched and should be costly. But to take away range or accuracy will only gimp the archer. And to take away the damage, and allow other powerful units not to take a nerf is unjust. Crossbow army behind walls will hurt a good bit as well, want to nerf them? Swordmen have shields to march into battle. I take little loss this way. Mounted units should flank the enemy not charge the front line. Keep their archer busy with fodder as you calvary circle around and destroy them. As it was done long ago.

But nothing worse than having an army of grand masters do a frontal assualt versus knights and spearmen and still rape my army. Even with archers firing at them.

White935
10-07-2011, 09:25 AM
Archers dont need a nerf. They work as intended. Archers are bad ass, simple as that. Look at our history in real life. Some of the largest battles were won by veteran archers against far superior armies.

Take the hundred year war for example. English outnumbered 10:1 one by the french, lost huge. It crippled the french army.

•1346 Battle of Crécy August 26. English longbowmen soundly defeat French cavalry at Abbeville. Details: Crécy was one of history's most decisive battles. After the battle of Sluys, Edward III landed in Normandy in July 1346 with about 10,000 men. The French pursued. Edward III decided to halt near Crecy in Normandy and to prepare for battle the next day. However, the French vanguard made contact and started to attack without the benefit of a
plan. The French made as many as 15 attacks and the English checked each one in turn mainly because of the English longbowmen. At the end, the French were decimated and the English had a decisive victory.

"This battle established the military supremacy of the English / Welsh longbow over the French combination of crossbow and armoured knights (due to the yeoman archer's significantly greater rate of fire and range than that of the contemporary crossbow) and altered significantly the way in which war was conducted for a considerable period of time thereafter"



But the fact these people use nothing but grand masters and crush everything in their path do need looked at. Like the guy talking about 2 units destroying 6 units for example. There is a good bit of unbalance in this game, but nerfing archers is not the siolution.

Armor piercing should be a tech that has to be researched and should be costly. But to take away range or accuracy will only gimp the archer. And to take away the damage, and allow other powerful units not to take a nerf is unjust. Crossbow army behind walls will hurt a good bit as well, want to nerf them? Swordmen have shields to march into battle. I take little loss this way. Mounted units should flank the enemy not charge the front line. Keep their archer busy with fodder as you calvary circle around and destroy them. As it was done long ago.

But nothing worse than having an army of grand masters do a frontal assualt versus knights and spearmen and still rape my army. Even with archers firing at them.

Archers shouldnt be overpowering. Archers should be useful, deadly yes. but only in a matter of support. Archers should never be able to hold off a frontal assault by themselves. yes Archery was the most powerful weapon in the medival age, even in japan. but we got a fantasy game here ;=) so we can bend the reality a little to make it entertaining noh? i personally dont think archers are that overpowerful, mayby a little but not much, and archers gotta remain useful after all.

Vish_Virtus
10-07-2011, 09:28 AM
well, all I know is, I will roll with 100% archers and I will never loose. Good luck all as buddy doesnt think there is a problem lolol.

No point having knights cause they will never get in 2" on my screen to my army, If I fight 5 Mounted Knights they will kill maybe 20% of 2 armies, My archers are hitting 500+/ arrow lol.

Onomas
10-07-2011, 09:31 AM
Archers shouldnt be overpowering. Archers should be useful, deadly yes. but only in a matter of support. Archers should never be able to hold off a frontal assault by themselves. yes Archery was the most powerful weapon in the medival age, even in japan. but we got a fantasy game here ;=) so we can bend the reality a little to make it entertaining noh? i personally dont think archers are that overpowerful, mayby a little but not much, and archers gotta remain useful after all.

THis i agree with, but usualy when things get nerfed they go a little overboard. I personaly use a mixed army so not defending the all archer army. Perhaps they can just add a limit on how many archers/calvary you can have per army and make it more a up close and personal sword/mace fight? Wouldnt that solve many issues?

White935
10-07-2011, 09:34 AM
THis i agree with, but usualy when things get nerfed they go a little overboard. I personaly use a mixed army so not defending the all archer army. Perhaps they can just add a limit on how many archers/calvary you can have per army and make it more a up close and personal sword/mace fight? Wouldnt that solve many issues?

hmm. personally i dont like the idea of limiting the slots. i'd rather just carefully balance it the old fashion way, the dev's play the game themselves ( well not right now, their patching like madmen refuled thats running on coffee). so they'll be able to know what its like do. well i got faith nonetheless how the dev's decide to solve it, it'll be good.

andreicde
10-07-2011, 09:34 AM
THis i agree with, but usualy when things get nerfed they go a little overboard. I personaly use a mixed army so not defending the all archer army. Perhaps they can just add a limit on how many archers/calvary you can have per army and make it more a up close and personal sword/mace fight? Wouldnt that solve many issues?

the problem right now is that archers are planned later to be done differently. For example when they will implant it archers will switch to melee when an enemy is near them.The problem is,until then their damage NEEDS to be changed.The only place archers should be powerful would be in city sieges for defenders.that's the only place

chanman20
10-07-2011, 03:01 PM
there not over powered i fought 3 people with full archer armys and beat them its not that hard to do...

Sunleader
10-07-2011, 03:05 PM
As I said
before talking about Balance we should maybe get wait for them to get rid of Bugs


What value does a Diskussion about Balancing have when the Damage and Healing Speead of Units is about Random

I am my lvl 6 Swordsmen can take any lvl 10 Knight Squad easily
yet if you had 2 fresh and unbugged squads the lvl 10 Squad would crush em without losses



You know there is no meaning in talking about archers when they start to do 1000 damage arrows due to being buggy
of course when all units are bugging to the extend of onehitting any Unit the Unit with Range will become OP


not that hard to find out right ?

chanman20
10-07-2011, 03:36 PM
As I said
before talking about Balance we should maybe get wait for them to get rid of Bugs


What value does a Diskussion about Balancing have when the Damage and Healing Speead of Units is about Random

I am my lvl 6 Swordsmen can take any lvl 10 Knight Squad easily
yet if you had 2 fresh and unbugged squads the lvl 10 Squad would crush em without losses



You know there is no meaning in talking about archers when they start to do 1000 damage arrows due to being buggy
of course when all units are bugging to the extend of onehitting any Unit the Unit with Range will become OP


not that hard to find out right ?

yeah what sun siad :p

Zanderscotx
10-09-2011, 10:30 PM
Yes Archer are the best unit in game right now do to many reasons. Calvary should be their counter but the Ai and formation takes so long with the size of the unit it is ussally dead before it gets to the archers.

Archer are also better because of the very simple Ai that other unit dont have which is simple placment + cosistant heavy damage.

Calvary formation and speed need a boost and maybe hit points , archers need to miss a tad more not to much.

Although I think this would work well for foot soldiers a special comand called duck and cover, which would reduse damage from range attacks by 70% but lowers the units damage by 30% and movment by 50% while toggled. Ussaly onlly 1/3 of a army is sappose to be taken out by archer not the whole thing.

You know its getting bad when 3/3 fights with the elves are all archers =(

axal011
10-09-2011, 11:30 PM
Yes Archer are the best unit in game right now do to many reasons. Calvary should be their counter but the Ai and formation takes so long with the size of the unit it is ussally dead before it gets to the archers.

Archer are also better because of the very simple Ai that other unit dont have which is simple placment + cosistant heavy damage.

Calvary formation and speed need a boost and maybe hit points , archers need to miss a tad more not to much.

Although I think this would work well for foot soldiers a special comand called duck and cover, which would reduse damage from range attacks by 70% but lowers the units damage by 30% and movment by 50% while toggled. Ussaly onlly 1/3 of a army is sappose to be taken out by archer not the whole thing.

You know its getting bad when 3/3 fights with the elves are all archers =(


I disagree, Archers already Miss ALOT... Reduce damage or reduce their hitpoints instead. Can't hit moving targets

Morteunious
10-10-2011, 01:07 AM
While welsh longbowmen may have been a powerful force during the 100 years war (though, to be complete, there was alot more going on then what people realize. To try and balance an RTS such as to reflect reality would make for a very boring game.

off topic bit- (keep in mind this is the short version) in the words of one of my profs: the french aristocracy (ie: military leaders) were blithering idiots. Archer units were notoriously underestimated by the french who often times charged head long into volley after volley. Had they a few decent commanders who knew how to counter archery tactics history would've looked a little different.

It always bugged me when people try and bring reality into a war game. If you really wanted this game to reflect reality: the archers would run out of ammo at some point (but this game they have infinite quivers) but that wouldn't matter cause they would've either died from fatigue (who in an online RTS ever lets there units rest?) or starved to death (you guys bring enough food to fed the troops right?)

Safey18
10-10-2011, 01:14 AM
The only place archers should be powerful would be in city sieges for defenders.that's the only place

I lold. He just wants his cav to be the most OP unit, units should be equally effective in most situations. Saying archers should only be powerful in city sieges for defenders is just naive.

macamus
10-10-2011, 02:42 AM
Archers should be effective in any field as long as they are guarded, they shoul die like goblins when something gets within melee range of them

Safey18
10-10-2011, 03:11 AM
Archers should be effective in any field as long as they are guarded, they shoul die like goblins when something gets within melee range of them

xD they do. I just PvPd with 54 battalions of lvl 1 - 2 archers i just made cause I OOS with my higher lvl ones and they got smashed to bits lol

andreicde
10-10-2011, 08:07 AM
xD they do. I just PvPd with 54 battalions of lvl 1 - 2 archers i just made cause I OOS with my higher lvl ones and they got smashed to bits lol

um isn't that obvious?level 1-2 are bad for about most units

Sunleader
10-10-2011, 08:08 AM
still ignoring that balance is completly impossible to measure as any Archer unit that survived some battles is going with damage counts of several thousand on each squad

but well keep discussing then ....

my best guy has 1500 damage per Arrow
implement duck and cover and he will be down to 450 per arrow
oops still oneshot on anyone xD



Then after they patch those Bugs that make Units infinetiley strong
the Archers will be so debuffed that 3 squads of archers will lose to a single squad of halberds xD


I am looking forward to it

Safey18
10-10-2011, 08:22 AM
still ignoring that balance is completly impossible to measure as any Archer unit that survived some battles is going with damage counts of several thousand on each squad

but well keep discussing then ....

my best guy has 1500 damage per Arrow
implement duck and cover and he will be down to 450 per arrow
oops still oneshot on anyone xD



Then after they patch those Bugs that make Units infinetiley strong
the Archers will be so debuffed that 3 squads of archers will lose to a single squad of halberds xD


I am looking forward to it

lol yeah all the exagerating and complaining about archers is going to get them an insane nerf and they really will be useless. Good times.

Safey18
10-10-2011, 08:24 AM
um isn't that obvious?level 1-2 are bad for about most units

Which would drag down the power and I would get matched with a similar strength... Hmmmmm

chanman20
10-11-2011, 12:23 PM
He isn't talking of 6 groups, he is talking of 60 groups. Once they are reasonably leveled they become unbeatable.

Archers need a serious Nerf, plain and simple. Either reduce their health or their damage.

ummm i killed a guy with 35 archers there no OP if you know what your doing

Sunleader
10-11-2011, 12:47 PM
Well as I said counltess times
theres no need to talk about balance at all


If I were to take out my Home Guard with its 1500 damage per Arrow they could even kill mounted Grandmaster in one shot
and with 41 points of healing per tick they could even go Melee on them

My Swordsman with 800 damage per Sword are about the same
Holy crap each of those 20 guys could easily prey on Ogres.....

You know ?
its funny to watch
I send this group of 20 guys to kill 3 Ogres on Open map
they go
and you just see 5 or 6 guys going to the Ogres slaying them in about 10 seconds
before the remaining guys even arrive there

macamus
10-11-2011, 02:23 PM
ummm i killed a guy with 35 archers there no OP if you know what your doing

Well its more a issue of bugs... some archer armies I have slaughtered with no problems, yet some other players I meet got immortal archers. And they were the same level as the other one :/

Uzik
10-11-2011, 05:15 PM
The devs should play some medieval total war and figure **** out.

Magicus
10-11-2011, 11:53 PM
All archer armies sounds very much like Dusk of Evony. I hope it gets fixed.