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ObscuredUSA
10-04-2011, 01:26 PM
I looked through the in game help section and it clearly states that if there are no human players around for you to PVP, you can have the option to PVP the AI. There are plenty of times that I couldn't find a match, but it didn't give me an option to PVP the AI. Did the scrap this?

macamus
10-05-2011, 09:24 AM
How can you PVP the AI when the AI is not a player? :P

The pvp matchmaker is downright horrible for me. I tried 30+ times and the few times I actually got in the other player desynces, disconnecte, or I killed all his units but no victory popped and no reward at all :/

Valkyrie
10-05-2011, 09:38 AM
i agree atm it's very hard to find other people to kill, specialy with armys above 700str.

they way i see it is that they should make it easier to find people above/under ur str than it currently is.

lets say you got 700 i usaly only find ppl around 670-730, they should increase that so i can find people around lets say 600-800+, tho this may cause some inbalance but who cares? it mostly comes down to placement and micromanagement on your soldiers anyways.

macamus
10-05-2011, 10:29 AM
I think the limit is about 150 +/- Someone with 730 attacked my 548 army and something of similiar difference also happend.

I got 3 armies in rolling plains with 700, 1000 and 1400 str and I never get invited to PvP huhu :(

But then again, whats the point of finding people in the matchmaker when it bugs out and get errors 90% of the time (at least in my own experience)

Konstantin Fomenko
10-05-2011, 11:50 AM
Guys,

We discussed this around the office today - as yes - we can confirm it, only a dozen of or so players have 600+ strong armies right now, so yeah - these armies don`t have anyone to hunt. We debated making the PvP search margins lower, but decided against this.

But with-in a week or so this problem should disappear:

1) Naturally more players will get large armies
2) Once Army Vs Town is introduced next week - you`ll have way more targets to attack. City Defenses (valued from 50 to 300) + players worker units + town Garrison + 90 cap instead of 60 - will make even mid-game towns be over 500 in strength.
3) Once alliances introduced in the following week - the problem will be solved once and for all. Your 700+ army will get matches again 2, or 3 players whose combined army strength will match yours.
4) In addition next week are making NPC towns much, much, much stronger. So you`ll need a 700+ army to siege one of them. We`ll also increase the influence reward for them.

macamus
10-05-2011, 12:19 PM
Guys,

We discussed this around the office today - as yes - we can confirm it, only a dozen of or so players have 600+ strong armies right now, so yeah - these armies don`t have anyone to hunt. We debated making the PvP search margins lower, but decided against this.

But with-in a week or so this problem should disappear:

1) Naturally more players will get large armies
2) Once Army Vs Town is introduced next week - you`ll have way more targets to attack. City Defenses (valued from 50 to 300) + players worker units + town Garrison + 90 cap instead of 60 - will make even mid-game towns be over 500 in strength.
3) Once alliances introduced in the following week - the problem will be solved once and for all. Your 700+ army will get matches again 2, or 3 players whose combined army strength will match yours.
4) In addition next week are making NPC towns much, much, much stronger. So you`ll need a 700+ army to siege one of them. We`ll also increase the influence reward for them.



You say you are going to increase the influence rewards on NPC sieges, bu you are aware that they currently dont give the ammount it says they are supposed to? I get 6 wealth on info but i recieve 0

Valkyrie
10-05-2011, 01:01 PM
1) Naturally more players will get large armies
2) Once Army Vs Town is introduced next week - you`ll have way more targets to attack. City Defenses (valued from 50 to 300) + players worker units + town Garrison + 90 cap instead of 60 - will make even mid-game towns be over 500 in strength.
3) Once alliances introduced in the following week - the problem will be solved once and for all. Your 700+ army will get matches again 2, or 3 players whose combined army strength will match yours.
4) In addition next week are making NPC towns much, much, much stronger. So you`ll need a 700+ army to siege one of them. We`ll also increase the influence reward for them.


sounds good to me, only problem tho is that 3 ppl with smaller armies vs one guy with a big one will make it hard for the one guy to micro vs those :) he have to be like an old korean broodwar pro with 500 apm.

but sounds fair. we wanted a fight now we get one

macamus
10-05-2011, 01:25 PM
sounds good to me, only problem tho is that 3 ppl with smaller armies vs one guy with a big one will make it hard for the one guy to micro vs those :) he have to be like an old korean broodwar pro with 500 apm.

but sounds fair. we wanted a fight now we get one

Just ally up with me, im half asian I got magical micro :D

Valkyrie
10-05-2011, 04:14 PM
Just ally up with me, im half asian I got magical micro :D


This is what i need.

Korean APM demonstration (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbpCLqryN-Q&feature=related)

xeovy
10-08-2011, 09:16 AM
I have an army of 850.
my army to attack it many times.
The problem is that I never went into battle. It is a very good army and do not want to lose it.
Has units of dwarves.
Pvp is very dangerous if you lose an entire army.
The day that I have 3 or 4 armies like that, went into the battle.
I am also waiting
that the PVP has fewer errors

Morteunious
10-08-2011, 02:11 PM
though I haven't worked out all the intricate details, here's another possible issue that I think may cause problems-

Those huge armies take time to build, some of which maybe on the order of several days. If a player builds a 1500 army and loses the match they wont be able to jump right back into qeueu, unless they had another massive army already built. They'll have to form a new army and have it go complete quests/gather resources/train the fresh soldiers. Further adding delay is the fact that said army will still get pulled into other pvp fights as it builds up its strength. Not to mention the levels of frustration one could encounter; why put in all that time and effort to build a huge army only to have it wiped out in 5 minutes?

Hassie
10-09-2011, 01:49 AM
I think in PvP fights (ONLY not when you are in a quest or fighting in a region) your Troops should NOT be destroyed completely, even if you lose them all in the battle. I know Morale isn't apart of the game, but if you lose, you should retain 1-3 units from maybe 60-100% of each of your Troop Groups. So instead of having to rebuild from scratch, you have to heal them up, and recruit some new guys to fill in the 0-40% of your units that were completely wiped out during the battle, which can be determined by how well the battle was fought. If one army wins, but loses 75% of his troops, than he should get them all back as his troops lying on the battlefield alive could be picked up and heal. Battles were fought by nobleman, and they usually granted both sides to collect the dead, dying and wounded from the battlefield at the end of a day's battle.

Fighting to the last man seems hokey to me, as in this era, men would run when their immediate ranking supervisor was killed. Granted there was no magic in our history, but this game is obviously based on real Human history in MANY aspects, and it would make PvP fun, and you wouldn't lose 3-7 days of recruiting, buying, training and gathering because someone attacked you with 60 Archers Units, or something.

That is just my 2 cents.

Safey18
10-09-2011, 02:53 AM
Armies are easy to make and I LOVE the fact you can destroy other peoples armies. If you dont want to lose your troops make sure you have enough to pay off the opposition if things go bad. Its a hardcore war game which I have been looking for for a long time. Just need the PvP bugs fixed and it will be amazing.

xeovy
10-09-2011, 07:06 AM
honestly, who are attacking my army, every 30 min, it starts to getting bored of the game.
I like the pve and are breaking my game every so often.
The power to lose all your army, makes many players quit the pvp, myself included.
To be paid every 30 min, or lose all your army
is a burden.
me is breaking a lot of amusement in the game.

Morteunious
10-09-2011, 01:52 PM
Like I mentioned awhile back in beta, I've seen other online RTS games with unrestricted/open war pvp with heavy penalties and it seemed those games ended up as disasters. Just look at freesky and earlier builds of evony. Never heard of those games? Probably a reason for that.

If the devs really want to leverage the revenue generating power of a cash shop they need the players logging in as often as possible. The bullying phenomenon which seems far too likely at this point will be extremely detrimental to this effect.

Interestingly enough, while it seems there's a huge demand from players for pvp its actual in-game popularity seems far less (speaking in a general sense.) Back in the early days of Ultima Online you could attack anyone, anywhere. As soon as they introduced an area with no pvp practically the entire player base had a mass exodus to the safe zone. The most popular online game (in terms of player base and revenue) I can think of with all out pvp is Zhengtu, but even that game is foreshadowed by fantasy westward journey (supposedly THE most popular online game on the planet in terms of players- estimated between 22 and 24 million) which I'm told has pvp but it is very contained (similar to how WoW's pvp is very contained.)

Loodrogh
10-09-2011, 02:02 PM
Hi all...
So i play this amazing game since some days now... First i tried all the SP Styles and was confused why there is no real campaign. Then after some frustrating days i tried Online Kingdom Mode which was just the thing i was missing in SP...
Now the problem with this mode is just the PvP. Dont get me wrong, i like the challenge and yes of course its a challenge 2 that you cant choose if you will play with or without PvP but as long as there are those 1000 archers 4 Triboks and one Black Dragon armies that chase you every few minutes and force you to quit game cause... its not a challenge to loose all your long created soldiers that you build up in a nice RP Brainwashing Fantasy Selfplaying Emotion... this is just frustrating and stoping me from geting the feeling i want to have discovering that world...
So either u can choose pvp or get an own pve server that has options for pvp, otherwise it will deprive the style for, i think, alot of people who like Fantasy just the way i do!!
And thats just the Point...
Gameīs called Dawn of FANTASY... So this is unmistakable for me...isnīt it??? ;)

andreicde
10-09-2011, 02:07 PM
Hi all...
So i play this amazing game since some days now... First i tried all the SP Styles and was confused why there is no real campaign. Then after some frustrating days i tried Online Kingdom Mode which was just the thing i was missing in SP...
Now the problem with this mode is just the PvP. Dont get me wrong, i like the challenge and yes of course its a challenge 2 that you cant choose if you will play with or without PvP but as long as there are those 1000 archers 4 Triboks and one Black Dragon armies that chase you every few minutes and force you to quit game cause... its not a challenge to loose all your long created soldiers that you build up in a nice RP Brainwashing Fantasy Selfplaying Emotion... this is just frustrating and stoping me from geting the feeling i want to have discovering that world...
So either u can choose pvp or get an own pve server that has options for pvp, otherwise it will deprive the style for, i think, alot of people who like Fantasy just the way i do!!
And thats just the Point...
Gameīs called Dawn of FANTASY... So this is unmistakable for me...isnīt it??? ;)

actually that's mostly related to the archers only army and bugged archers. But yeah i think they planned to fix that for tuesday and they talked about a balanced system

chanman20
10-09-2011, 04:05 PM
Guys,

We discussed this around the office today - as yes - we can confirm it, only a dozen of or so players have 600+ strong armies right now, so yeah - these armies don`t have anyone to hunt. We debated making the PvP search margins lower, but decided against this.

But with-in a week or so this problem should disappear:

1) Naturally more players will get large armies
2) Once Army Vs Town is introduced next week - you`ll have way more targets to attack. City Defenses (valued from 50 to 300) + players worker units + town Garrison + 90 cap instead of 60 - will make even mid-game towns be over 500 in strength.
3) Once alliances introduced in the following week - the problem will be solved once and for all. Your 700+ army will get matches again 2, or 3 players whose combined army strength will match yours.
4) In addition next week are making NPC towns much, much, much stronger. So you`ll need a 700+ army to siege one of them. We`ll also increase the influence reward for them.

sounds good ^^

Safey18
10-09-2011, 07:52 PM
What I'm getting from this thread really is that most people playing this game are not looking for a war game. Come on harden up armies are so easy to make. I'm full of resources, soldiers and gold. I'm literally giving it away. All that needs to be added is after you have been attacked you can't be PvPd again for the next 30 mins - 1 hour and the griefing will stop. Other then that I love the system!

flashpg
10-10-2011, 04:13 AM
Im playing humans and whenever I click on the PVP button nothing happens, just nothing comes up or I don't get any options......Just nothing! I can't believe how poor this game's performance is, its like the game has just been thrown together in a matter of weeks!! I am doing a quest where I have 2 targets on the wold map and have completed 1 target but now the second target has just disappered so now I can't complete the quest!
This game has such a chance of being great fun but I am seriously considering taking it back to the store as there are sooooo many issues with it!! You buy something you expect it to work!

xeovy
10-10-2011, 09:27 AM
I would like to know what you think programmers.
the issue of 30 minutes and losing the entire army and all the resources.
I think that should be less radical, for people like me, we're more likely to play in pve.
I think the current system is too hard on people who want to enjoy the pve.
may continue without change, many people stop playing.It is possible that, get bored of the game.
I really love the game, but did not expect a pvp so hard and continuous.
In cities, if they are being attacked every few minutes, if you lose the whole army, resources in your city and you burn it all.
So for me, whether it will be the end of this game.

Magicmud83
10-10-2011, 11:33 AM
I would like to know what you think programmers.
the issue of 30 minutes and losing the entire army and all the resources.
I think that should be less radical, for people like me, we're more likely to play in pve.
I think the current system is too hard on people who want to enjoy the pve.
may continue without change, many people stop playing.It is possible that, get bored of the game.
I really love the game, but did not expect a pvp so hard and continuous.
In cities, if they are being attacked every few minutes, if you lose the whole army, resources in your city and you burn it all.
So for me, whether it will be the end of this game.

What PvE are you doing? Theres only a few quests from what I hear and after that the only pve left is grinding and attacking npc towns.

andreicde
10-10-2011, 11:59 AM
I would like to know what you think programmers.
the issue of 30 minutes and losing the entire army and all the resources.
I think that should be less radical, for people like me, we're more likely to play in pve.
I think the current system is too hard on people who want to enjoy the pve.
may continue without change, many people stop playing.It is possible that, get bored of the game.
I really love the game, but did not expect a pvp so hard and continuous.
In cities, if they are being attacked every few minutes, if you lose the whole army, resources in your city and you burn it all.
So for me, whether it will be the end of this game.

How do you manage to get attacked every few minutes?a fight gives 30 min of protection and also if you surrender you lose less.

macamus
10-10-2011, 12:17 PM
I believe some dev states that we will be able to buy "safe time" later on. Like pay 1500 gold and you are safe from attacks for 90 minutes or until you attack someone. People usually carry some ressources around in the armies as well so you wont get all ripped off :P and its not like people are gonna succesfully destroy your entire city everytime. its supposed to be hard

Loodrogh
10-10-2011, 03:32 PM
Sorry people but a lot of u guys just tell us that its not hard to build up your army in less than one hour... for me i want to play with a mixed army because i like to choose which race i want to lead in every fight and its great fun to combine their strenghts! So what to do... Create an army, gether resources, crawl to the right place where u can find that special troops u prefere, recruit those troops which means fight some pve fights to get enough money and continiously buy your warriors, crawl to the other place(s) to recruit, go back to train those troops and get money for that training, go in to pve to try tactics and train over lvl 5, finaly stock up with different resources and warmachines and, yippiayyeHH, loose em all in 5min. because someone wants to try his archer and dragon army... and even if its a balanced fight... wheres the possibility to choose. Realy i want to play PvE cause the only thing im geting bored are those PvP Battles.
Why its so hard to give us the choice to PvP or not. I mean if there are so many people that want to fight with their 30min. armies then its okay for me, i wish to all of those guys great fun and satisfaction. Maybe iīll join u some day but until then iīd like to have my way of a Dawn of Fantasy...
If it keeps on with that PvP mess then itīll be a Down of Fantasy to me and a lot of other guys!

Take it or leave it thats my opinion...:rolleyes:

Morteunious
10-10-2011, 06:43 PM
One fear is if you make pvp optional alot (read: almost all) of players will opt out of it. This very same thing has been observed in several other mmos.

Really the main concern I have is the new guys vs ringers. There is no bracketing in this game. You could have the world champion RTS masters repeatedly matched against total scrubs. You could say that an army's attack value itself could act as a from of bracketing but this metric does not measure skill at all imo.

While you can pay off attackers, in my experience this pay off is rather steep. Ive had some payoffs be well above 7k in gold plus majority of the resources on hand. Anything less then this and the game starts removing units from my army. I had one army that acted as more a storage place for extra troops with 0 gold and resources, the pay off for one attacker was over half the troops in it (about 15 battalions at the time).

andreicde
10-10-2011, 07:35 PM
One fear is if you make pvp optional alot (read: almost all) of players will opt out of it. This very same thing has been observed in several other mmos.

Really the main concern I have is the new guys vs ringers. There is no bracketing in this game. You could have the world champion RTS masters repeatedly matched against total scrubs. You could say that an army's attack value itself could act as a from of bracketing but this metric does not measure skill at all imo.

While you can pay off attackers, in my experience this pay off is rather steep. Ive had some payoffs be well above 7k in gold plus majority of the resources on hand. Anything less then this and the game starts removing units from my army. I had one army that acted as more a storage place for extra troops with 0 gold and resources, the pay off for one attacker was over half the troops in it (about 15 battalions at the time).

that's why you're not supposed to have huge battalions.I keep my battalions low and even one of the armies with caravans only and 15k gold/18k stone. Also my army with which I pvp usually has around 230-250 army str for the easy fact that no lag can happen and battles are quite smooth. But yes you are right the bracketing right now kinda sucks ,but it will change because of the update tommorow.Tommorow after the update,the system of units itself will be changed which means of all us will have to change our tactics and will have to find new ways to stay in top.