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The Witch King of Angmar
10-06-2008, 02:56 PM
I was wondering what type of places battles will be going on at, whether in a frozen wasteland or a forest. Also, will you be able to use natural things to your advantage? For example, if archers are on a cliff, will they get any bonuses such as sight or accuracy? Finally, will there be islands or caves that could form some sort of natural fortress?

Thanks

Puppeteer
10-06-2008, 02:57 PM
I think that archers get advantages in sight and perhaps damage (due to GPE). In one screenshot you see a couple standing on a log!

The Witch King of Angmar
10-06-2008, 03:13 PM
Nice. That's the kind of stuff I can't wait to see. But I wonder if they will automatically take control of good terrain or if you have to manually tell them to.

Dylan Bales
10-06-2008, 04:02 PM
When archers are on a hill, I believe they have a bigger line of sight than if they were just on a flat plain; types of battles... I don't know what to say about that, I'll let someone else answer, since I really don't know what to say :p.

nickson104
10-06-2008, 04:36 PM
When archers are on a hill, I believe they have a bigger line of sight than if they were just on a flat plain; types of battles... I don't know what to say about that, I'll let someone else answer, since I really don't know what to say :p.

Bigger line of sight... check
Longer range?
Damage i wouldnt think so

And yeah the differing terrain would be cool :) but i hope the armies dont automatically take advantage of terrain, that would really set the micromanagement of the game up a notch and make a skilled player have the advantage over a lesser skilled player who wouldnt take advantage of the terrain around them...

And yeah Cliffs or islands, really defensive or death trap... One way in or the defensive advantages land-sea.... on the other hand, you could easily be cut off/blockaded and slow siege untill you starve to death...

Esculas the Mighty
10-06-2008, 05:00 PM
Bigger line of sight... check
Longer range?
Damage i wouldnt think so

And yeah the differing terrain would be cool :) but i hope the armies dont automatically take advantage of terrain, that would really set the micromanagement of the game up a notch and make a skilled player have the advantage over a lesser skilled player who wouldnt take advantage of the terrain around them...

And yeah Cliffs or islands, really defensive or death trap... One way in or the defensive advantages land-sea.... on the other hand, you could easily be cut off/blockaded and slow siege untill you starve to death...

total death trap overwhelm them with your superior navy

Darvin
10-06-2008, 05:01 PM
Rather than giving those on high ground a bonus, why not give those on low ground a penalty?

If the attacker has an offensive (range or damage) bonus, there is no imperative on the defender to move to another position; by the time this is achieved, they will be dead anyways due to the damage bonus. You're better off returning fire to kill some of the attackers and reduce their damage output that way. Alternately, giving a defensive boost makes returning fire an impractical response, and makes moving your army's position (a more tactically interesting and realistic response) the imperative.


As for what environments we may see, we've seen forest, swamp, and desert environments in various screenshots. I hope, like WKoA, that we see snowy environments. Tropical environments would also be nice. Beyond that, more important than many types of environments is many permutations of them. It's the variation from one battlefield to the next that makes matters interesting. As a mapper, I'm looking forward to seeing what can be done to make interesting map designs.

aVeron
10-08-2008, 07:26 AM
I have a similar question about maps and terrain.

I havent fully understood the whole concept of the mmo world map. If you're able to fight battles far outside your own borders. How will the environment in the tons of different areas be like? Lets say you send out an army to explore, and you met up with another army, and you have to fight them, will a battlemap be loaded by then? Will the battlefields terrain and environment be same as it should be on the world map? Will it be random how the map looks like in that area, for example, if you fight first time in that area its a large forest area with a lake in a valley in middle, second time in the exact same place, will it look the same as it did the first time, or will it be randomised how it looks like?

Sorry if its hard to understand the question, i dont know how else to put it.

Joseph Visscher
10-08-2008, 10:35 AM
I have a similar question about maps and terrain.

I havent fully understood the whole concept of the mmo world map. If you're able to fight battles far outside your own borders. How will the environment in the tons of different areas be like? Lets say you send out an army to explore, and you met up with another army, and you have to fight them, will a battlemap be loaded by then? Will the battlefields terrain and environment be same as it should be on the world map? Will it be random how the map looks like in that area, for example, if you fight first time in that area its a large forest area with a lake in a valley in middle, second time in the exact same place, will it look the same as it did the first time, or will it be randomised how it looks like?

Sorry if its hard to understand the question, i dont know how else to put it.


None of our maps are randomly generated, all done by hand in our editor.



I was wondering what type of places battles will be going on at, whether in a frozen wasteland or a forest. Also, will you be able to use natural things to your advantage? For example, if archers are on a cliff, will they get any bonuses such as sight or accuracy? Finally, will there be islands or caves that could form some sort of natural fortress?

Thanks

I am not sure if our snow environments will make it into the game, we might save it for a expansion pack, most of our playable world area is not around snow, leaving out northern Dwarven realm; still, we have many more quests to make. ;)

About the archers, Yes sight and range increases with higher height, but it wont be like in bfme2/1 where they shoot across the entire map if they are really really high.

aVeron
10-08-2008, 11:50 AM
None of our maps are randomly generated, all done by hand in our editor.

Oh, thats good! So, there will be like several of thousands and thousands of different areas around the world map then?

Mrdash
10-08-2008, 12:37 PM
Thousands and thousands seems a little much. =s

But must be alot. =D

nickson104
10-08-2008, 03:26 PM
None of our maps are randomly generated, all done by hand in our editor.





I am not sure if our snow environments will make it into the game, we might save it for a expansion pack, most of our playable world area is not around snow, leaving out northern Dwarven realm; still, we have many more quests to make. ;)

About the archers, Yes sight and range increases with higher height, but it wont be like in bfme2/1 where they shoot across the entire map if they are really really high.


Those maps would have been really good to play in :( ah well onwards and upwards...

I'm glad to hear its not like BFME because yeah some of the range bonuses on there were just irrational, combine the extreme power of the elven archers plus their huge range and the bonus of some of the bigger hills and it was just stupid, I recall one battle with a friend where he had his archer heros camped on a hill in the middle of the map and manage to destroy my fortress due to the range they had

Joseph Visscher
10-09-2008, 12:52 PM
I recall one battle with a friend where he had his archer heros camped on a hill in the middle of the map and manage to destroy my fortress due to the range they had


So... arrows destroy entire fortresses... not even flaming arrows should effect stone buildings/walls, wood houses etc yea it should burn them down; but arrows, without fire, arrows should only effect flesh baring personnel. such as Ogres, Orcs and Cows! :) Oh, don't forget chicken, (with flaming arrows) hmmm Chicken Shishabob.

nickson104
10-09-2008, 12:57 PM
So... arrows destroy entire fortresses... not even flaming arrows should effect stone buildings/walls, wood houses etc yea it should burn them down; but arrows, without fire, arrows should only effect flesh baring personnel. such as Ogres, Orcs and Cows! :) Oh, don't forget chicken, (with flaming arrows) hmmm Chicken Shishabob.

Exactly what annoys me, the only game that really pleases me lately, and I have begun to play it a lot more as of late, is Stronghold2. Yes it is wrought with bugs and glitches but at least its game makes sense and a lot of your strategy and battles and your survival depends on exactly how you build your fortress and manage your lands

Stronghold is good in the way you cant destroy buildings with anything but siege pretty much and the free build is amazing :) The units are not so spectacular, no tactics for most no added damage from spearmen to horsemen or such and it generally comes down to sheer numbers... but it is a thoroughly enjoyable game

Joseph Visscher
10-09-2008, 01:33 PM
Exactly what annoys me, the only game that really pleases me lately, and I have begun to play it a lot more as of late, is Stronghold2. Yes it is wrought with bugs and glitches but at least its game makes sense and a lot of your strategy and battles and your survival depends on exactly how you build your fortress and manage your lands

Stronghold is good in the way you cant destroy buildings with anything but siege pretty much and the free build is amazing :) The units are not so spectacular, no tactics for most no added damage from spearmen to horsemen or such and it generally comes down to sheer numbers... but it is a thoroughly enjoyable game


I played the demo of it, it was fun, it was very promising in a lot of areas, then very week in others, its sandbox nature makes the strongholds look very unrealistic depending on who built it, its walls die/build way to fast, and your wrong; from what i saw, anything can kill anything, that first level, the enemy took me out several times with just spear men and swordsmen by destroying my buildings, walls and everything else. :(

nickson104
10-09-2008, 01:57 PM
I played the demo of it, it was fun, it was very promising in a lot of areas, then very week in others, its sandbox nature makes the strongholds look very unrealistic depending on who built it, its walls die/build way to fast, and your wrong; from what i saw, anything can kill anything, that first level, the enemy took me out several times with just spear men and swordsmen by destroying my buildings, walls and everything else. :(

Except the stone buildings... the demo although it is good it only allows the low level buildings, all of which are wooden :( wooden palisades can be hacked through with enough force but stone cannot...
Building was very fast i agree but it was a compromise i was willing to make :p

And yes some people would make them unrealistic, some people would take advantage of the landscape or the cunning would make the easiest place to attack their main gate to lure their enemies there (which was in fact a killzone with many balistae,catapults and traps to hinder their foes)
However some people like me made the castles as defendable as possible, not spam walls but make them look realistic and like a proper castle but a well fuctioninc one.
My personal favourite was a concentric box castle, 2 layers of wall with every here and there a wall jutting out a few yards to allow a tower to be placed at a better vantage point compared to the wall

And in my spare time i enjoyed making motte and baileys and testing my skill at the creating of castles :) some of the scenario mission castles on the game were amazing and many quite accurate...

aVeron
10-09-2008, 02:17 PM
I didnt really like the bfme series, due to the heroes, they're to overpowered.

The Witch King of Angmar
10-09-2008, 02:27 PM
After you play for a while, you begin to learn their weaknesses.

kronlc
10-09-2008, 07:46 PM
I play stronghold2 also nickson, funnily enougth it was
while looking for a game similar to stronghold2 that I came across this.
I also agree that the only archers that should be OP are the elvin ones
but even that needs to be limited.

Joseph Visscher
10-09-2008, 10:07 PM
I play stronghold2 also nickson, funnily enougth it was
while looking for a game similar to stronghold2 that I came across this.
I also agree that the only archers that should be OP are the elvin ones
but even that needs to be limited.


I'll leak some already known info about the elves...

Elven units are the most powerful units in the game, archers are good, but so are their melee units, without any upgrades 1 Elven two handed swordsman (not going to give their name) can take on 4+ human soldiers and 5-6+ orcs.

To counter this, Elven units are a lot more expensive and elves generally are not as populated as the other races, therefore it is very common that the elves outnumbered, but not out skilled or out powered :)
They are a force to respect and honor, every elf can change the outcome; unlike the near endless hordes of Orcs...

kronlc
10-09-2008, 10:10 PM
Wow sounds great.......

Esculas the Mighty
10-10-2008, 07:37 AM
ima rush orcs with 1 elven swordsman!!!! whooo

nickson104
10-10-2008, 02:03 PM
I'll leak some already known info about the elves...

Elven units are the most powerful units in the game, archers are good, but so are their melee units, without any upgrades 1 Elven two handed swordsman (not going to give their name) can take on 4+ human soldiers and 5-6+ orcs.

To counter this, Elven units are a lot more expensive and elves generally are not as populated as the other races, therefore it is very common that the elves outnumbered, but not out skilled or out powered :)
They are a force to respect and honor, every elf can change the outcome; unlike the near endless hordes of Orcs...

As to be expected :) it is good to think that the devs have implented all the good things in this game and compared the races to each other and such :)

Andy Joslin
10-10-2008, 03:11 PM
We hope to make races as varied as games like Starcraft, while maintaining balance.

You'll be seeing even more variety in our expansion(s), too.

The Witch King of Angmar
10-10-2008, 04:31 PM
More than one expansion would be amazing.

Esculas the Mighty
10-10-2008, 11:23 PM
We hope to make races as varied as games like Starcraft, while maintaining balance.

You'll be seeing even more variety in our expansion(s), too.

that would be epic even tho i never really liked starcraft as much as the next guy i loved how balanced and how different the 3 races were from each other

and to achieve that on dawn of fantasy would really put you guys on the map

kronlc
10-11-2008, 03:03 AM
Definitely' yous have the opportunity to create something really special
and epic, so cut no corners and make sure if you are going to do something
do it properly and it will all pay off in the end,. From my professional point of view in RTS and RPG games I would have to say the concept of this game
is the best I've ever seen and "ever hoped for" Starcraft 2 wont even compare to this game when its released thats to say if you guys live up to
the promises'' and expectations of the rest of the nerds on here then you will have really made a game thats worth alot of our time and when I say worth our time I mean really worth sitting on our computers and playing the product instead of being out and doing something constructive.

Esculas the Mighty
10-11-2008, 12:14 PM
Definitely' yous have the opportunity to create something really special
and epic, so cut no corners and make sure if you are going to do something
do it properly and it will all pay off in the end,. From my professional point of view in RTS and RPG games I would have to say the concept of this game
is the best I've ever seen and "ever hoped for" Starcraft 2 wont even compare to this game when its released thats to say if you guys live up to
the promises'' and expectations of the rest of the nerds on here then you will have really made a game thats worth alot of our time and when I say worth our time I mean really worth sitting on our computers and playing the product instead of being out and doing something constructive.

nerdom is the future xD

but im pretty sure they will achieve this in dof or maybe dof2

Mrdash
10-12-2008, 08:47 PM
I'll leak some already known info about the elves...

Elven units are the most powerful units in the game, archers are good, but so are their melee units, without any upgrades 1 Elven two handed swordsman (not going to give their name) can take on 4+ human soldiers and 5-6+ orcs.

To counter this, Elven units are a lot more expensive and elves generally are not as populated as the other races, therefore it is very common that the elves outnumbered, but not out skilled or out powered :)
They are a force to respect and honor, every elf can change the outcome; unlike the near endless hordes of Orcs...

Sweet. A fantasy 300 3k orcs versus 300 elves booya!!!! That would look so sweet.

Even if the elves did lose I'd love to see how small in numbers the orcs are afterwards =D

What a battle. *goes into deep imagination*..............

raving
10-13-2008, 04:26 AM
god, im gonna make the 300 scene with the map editor when it comes out^^. or atleast try :p

Esculas the Mighty
10-13-2008, 07:17 AM
god, im gonna make the 300 scene with the map editor when it comes out^^. or atleast try :p

ill just declare war on 3 orc nations :eek:

Andy Joslin
10-13-2008, 09:37 AM
Sweet. A fantasy 300 3k orcs versus 300 elves booya!!!! That would look so sweet.

Even if the elves did lose I'd love to see how small in numbers the orcs are afterwards =D

What a battle. *goes into deep imagination*..............
The persians had more than 3000.

10 to 1, the spartans would've had a cake walk.

Anyway, I'm not sure who would win 3000 elves vs 300 orcs. If the elves have their uber swordsman, it's a toss-up. :rolleyes:

nickson104
10-13-2008, 09:50 AM
The persians had more than 3000.

10 to 1, the spartans would've had a cake walk.

Anyway, I'm not sure who would win 3000 elves vs 300 orcs. If the elves have their uber swordsman, it's a toss-up. :rolleyes:

sounds awesome :)

I'm guessing that orcs will spam strong or weak units combined and will rush and overwhelm wheras the elves will be few but strong, the humans the most organised with formations and heavily armoured, the dragons extremely few but very strong with many specialised units and such

Joseph Visscher
10-13-2008, 11:12 AM
It will still be balanced and may still get balanced again and again before release;
If the Orcs have upgrades and the Elves don't, and they are outnumbered 1 to 2-3 of strong orcs, Well,,, has anyone here tasted Elvish Meat? They would. ;)

"Gellemakk (enemy blood/body)... tis Tastys uke... chicken crap!",
"Frakk?(what?)...... Fed Ogre tis!"

nickson104
10-13-2008, 12:11 PM
It will still be balanced and may still get balanced again and again before release;
If the Orcs have upgrades and the Elves don't, and they are outnumbered 1 to 2-3 of strong orcs, Well,,, has anyone here tasted Elvish Meat? They would. ;)

"Gellemakk (enemy blood/body)... tis Tastys uke... chicken crap!",
"Frakk?(what?)...... Fed Ogre tis!"

Oh good that has made my day now :)

wou129
10-14-2008, 12:38 AM
The persians had more than 3000.

10 to 1, the spartans would've had a cake walk.

Anyway, I'm not sure who would win 3000 elves vs 300 orcs. If the elves have their uber swordsman, it's a toss-up. :rolleyes:

300 3k isnt 3000 but 300000
so 300000 orcs vs 300 elves
lol elves wil get massecurd

sorry fore my bad englich

Esculas the Mighty
10-14-2008, 06:28 AM
300 3k isnt 3000 but 300000
so 300000 orcs vs 300 elves
lol elves wil get massecurd

sorry fore my bad englich

3k is 3000 0.o
300k is 300,000 0,o

wou129
10-14-2008, 08:03 AM
i think u come from america becosu u use . as ,

nickson104
10-14-2008, 03:29 PM
i think u come from america becosu u use . as ,

where you got that from i dont know :/

Esculas the Mighty
10-14-2008, 05:08 PM
i think u come from america becosu u use . as ,

typos lol

Europeans have a lot of things they think Americans do...

Puppeteer
10-16-2008, 10:08 AM
English people do "," as well. I remember teachers tried to make us stop using them because the Europeans don't do it our way, but we said "Screw That!" We don't want the EU, nor their different uses of "," and ".". The differences between UK and Europe and UK and America are such that we might as well be called "Oceania". Here we come, Airstrip One!

</1984 reference>
</digression>

Esculas the Mighty
10-28-2008, 08:21 PM
English people do "," as well. I remember teachers tried to make us stop using them because the Europeans don't do it our way, but we said "Screw That!" We don't want the EU, nor their different uses of "," and ".". The differences between UK and Europe and UK and America are such that we might as well be called "Oceania". Here we come, Airstrip One!

</1984 reference>
</digression>

OCEANIA UNION!!!!!!