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DeliCious
01-20-2011, 06:57 PM
I recently read that you will offer influence points for sale. I think this is a complete sell out and became very dissapointed at the prospect of people being able to purchase an advantage. From Financial stand point it makes perfect sense you can parade about being a subscription free MMO while still hustling people of their money.

The journey is what matters not the destinationl. Moving towards something earning it as you go along with a sense of fullfiment beats having everyone around you cheating getting ahead.

Now a "moraly" superior way all tho less lucrative but at least you would keep your reputation with me :)

1. Subscription based if your game is good enough reap what you sowed.

People will pay a monthly fee i will if it holds up do, not go under like Hellgate london did because they refused to add a subscription i still miss it.

2. Dawn of fantasy release no subscription Rush 2 DLC out add one expansion and then add subscription for Dawn of fantasy 2, 3 years down the road.

The truth is having a subscription also adds a Certain Standard to the game. a MMO without subscription cant be good thats what people say.

akyko
01-20-2011, 07:43 PM
Influence points from what the FAQ I've been reading seems to be more like LoL's Riot Points and is just used buy extra stuff like expansion packs and can gained by playing the game meaning if you play enough you could get it for free instead of paying for it.

LiTos456
01-20-2011, 08:38 PM
Firstly, I don't know how you're assuming the microtransactions will kill the game's balance the instant you read they exist. What I'm saying is - don't judge a book by its' cover. The influence points, like Akyko said, will only help you in ways that won't tip the scales between you and other players. Like in many other games, its' designed for those who might not have as much time to play the game, and it'll work just fine.

How do we know this? Well if you haven't noticed, a lot of games have been going free to play, including some big titles like Lord of the Rings Online. It has been proven that F2P brings significantly more profit to the developers than a subscription model.
Of course LOTRO had to go through some significant changes which might not have favored some people, in the end they gained players and those who continued to pay a monthly fee received a lot of their previously acclaimed bonuses.
Likewise in DoF - everyone plays equally, and the shop stuff just helps boost you a little bit if you've not had time to play or want to catch up to your friends etc. LOTRO is probably not the greatest example though as there is quite a gap between base free players and those who pay the full price; DoF is unlikely to have anything even close to that.

So, in short, it won't be as damaging as you assume - and it is definitely the best way to go as proven by recent trends in the gaming industry.

Joseph Visscher
01-20-2011, 10:30 PM
Firstly, I don't know how you're assuming the microtransactions will kill the game's balance the instant you read they exist. What I'm saying is - don't judge a book by its' cover. The influence points, like Akyko said, will only help you in ways that won't tip the scales between you and other players. Like in many other games, its' designed for those who might not have as much time to play the game, and it'll work just fine.

How do we know this? Well if you haven't noticed, a lot of games have been going free to play, including some big titles like Lord of the Rings Online. It has been proven that F2P brings significantly more profit to the developers than a subscription model.
Of course LOTRO had to go through some significant changes which might not have favored some people, in the end they gained players and those who continued to pay a monthly fee received a lot of their previously acclaimed bonuses.
Likewise in DoF - everyone plays equally, and the shop stuff just helps boost you a little bit if you've not had time to play or want to catch up to your friends etc. LOTRO is probably not the greatest example though as there is quite a gap between base free players and those who pay the full price; DoF is unlikely to have anything even close to that.

So, in short, it won't be as damaging as you assume - and it is definitely the best way to go as proven by recent trends in the gaming industry.

Couldn't have really said it better myself.

But to add to it, it also includes more downloadable content such as special quests or even entire expansion packs or campaigns, maybe some co-op humans vs AI campaign that we will create after the game is released, keep a steady flow of new content that everone can purcahse with Wealth, not real money (so everyone can unlock the content but it takes a massive amount of time to gain that much wealth or just buy it with real money instantly).

DeliCious
01-21-2011, 06:31 AM
I played LOTRO pre F2P and after its not better after i couldent even subscripe anymore and now they wanted alot that money for buying quests which cost alot more then subscrbing.

We felt so cheated and was shown yet again how the Monetary system corrupts games to the core and lowers quality, having to constantly buy new quests to enjoy the game fully.

There is alot of people playing Farmville quantity of players dosent always make a good game now adays. And how can the game be balanced if you can buy a diffrential advantage weather it be buy small quests or influence points?


And lets not kid ourself buying stuff with wealth is a joke we have seen it before, League of legends LOTRO. Where you could play 100 hours to earn points for 5$
Here's a nice Quote "F2P brings significantly more profit to the developers than a subscription model"" From Lito. Lets Translate, saying that this game will cost more then a subscription based MMO if you wanna enjoy it fully. Recent Trends are BS move away from money sucking and fast.

JurassicPork
01-21-2011, 06:46 AM
Unfortunately the F2P model does appear to be a way of sucking players in and then charging them more than a subscription based mode. It does allow for some MMOs to gather momentum though. APB was great fun and I subscribed after the closed beta and was very disappointed that it didn't flourish in the way it could. LOTR appears to be the reverse of that. I wasn't interested until it went F2P and after seeing that you need to invest quite a lot of money to get the 'Full' package I lost interest.

Microtransactions are an excellent way of offering 'extras' to a player as long as you offer more than a bare bones gameplay for the standard game. Allowing players to accumalate Wealth to purchase DLC sounds like an excellent move.

DeliCious
01-21-2011, 08:25 AM
@JurassicPork so true.

But how can they possibly have a balance for inbase wealth and puchased wealth? If the wealth needed to purchace DLC and extras is to low people will farm and sell it online thus destroying the system they implemented to profit

And if they put it to high so its not even reasonable to buy DLC and quiests with ure in game Wealth, then they will make a profit but sacrfice crucial gameplay striking a balance has never been done and i do doubt fully that DoF will succeed here and once you sacrfice gameplay for Profit your game will be doomed anyhow.

Its the you cant buy things with ingame wealth and have a system to purchace it at the same time. they dont mix to low will destroy the game to high will drag the quality down, so this is what they will do the will have wealth needed to purchase expansions and DLC so crazy high nobody will do it, but they can still brag about having the option open its a scam.

WARNING: Do not take your game in this direction Scrap it all toghether.

Dalkor
01-21-2011, 09:11 AM
If it is going to follow a F2P system and you want a P2P system, why not confine your self to paying 10-15$ a month for these influence point's. You are ahead of the game for those that don't want to spend a dime after the base cost.

It's also nice to hear that the base game will stay the base game, it's additional content that we will have to buy.

By the way what's the difference between this system and the DLC system on consoles?

Negthareas
01-21-2011, 09:13 AM
The way I see it is like this: Wealth or Influence is used to purchase things that may not effect your gameplay versus other players, but may enhance your personal taste for the game. Thus, things I could imagine fitting into this category would be stuff like personalized decor for you flags and uniforms, mini campaigns and missions that are awesome, but not in anyway necessary, etc.. not stuff like new special units, upgrade bonuses, free battalions, or ready to fight wizards.

Wealth/Influence is purchasable with real money, but if a player enjoys the game and plays a lot, he will gain enough W/I to get much of this content anyway.

I think it will work as long as the developers do not cross that line of ifluence being able to affect gameplay.

DeliCious
01-21-2011, 10:06 AM
Everything is nesscery, and its naive to think that they will strike a balance here, and you dont think you will have other things to use your wealth for in an RTS ?

Subscription and the other system they advocate is mainly a diffrence in mindset one mindset is everything new we make you will have to pay for to acquire.

and the other is that

well we dont have to worry about the money because we have a subscription in affect so we can focus on adding new things and generely just improve the game.


Heroes of Newerth vs League of Legends.

Which one is superior gameplay wise? to me the answer is very obvious HoN is because they keep adding new things free of charge they improve their game free of charge and the only thing you can buy is cosmetics, if this ever changes tho it will be a Downward spiral. and i dont even approve on the cosmetics costing money.

akyko
01-21-2011, 11:41 AM
I some what doubt influence will be something you can trade between players if it is, yes, it could encourage gold farmer spam. I'm sure it will be something high but if it to high and give you a huge advantage, they're going to lose quite a bit of the F2P market. But unless these special quest and expansions give you extra damage to all units or some sort of overpower units, they wont matter all expansions will do is possibly change gameplay styles if everything is balanced correctly and special quest seem like to me they'll just be new mission or maps to play.

I don't think HoN or LoL has better gameplay both get more characters add its just did you pay for the game and its update or do you want to play for the updates or pay for it. Its more so HoN has a better player base because people don't want to get banned for leaving because it costs them money to play while LoL is free and most people haven't spent much on it and up til a little bit ago there wasn't a lot of enforcement on leavers or spoiling games which they're all changing and has already shown a ton of improvement. And if I'm correct were still paying for the game at that start so it isn't completely F2P so as long as there good enforcement people will be civil because they wont be able to just make a new account.

I'm guessing this is a Lol reference also, does cosmetics really change anything its just changing the model not giving any real advantage(except maybe some sort of mental psych-out being like "Oh they must really be good with character better keep an eye out") It just means you really like that cosmetic change. Even if you don't want to pay you can mod them for your own viewing pleasure if your really wanted too.

In the long run, yes, a F2P will probably cost a hardcore fan of the game more money or time but will bring in more players for them to play with. While P2P will still cost you maybe not as much depending on how much content is released per payment period but will lessen the starting player base.

DeliCious
01-21-2011, 01:20 PM
I Guess i just miss the days where i could just buy a game and get the full game. without someone trying to scam me, for more money constantly with small annoying little DLC that should just be included free of charge. with an expansion added once every year or so.

And btw in LoL and battleforge and LOTRO you dont just buy cosmetics you buy yourself ahead.

Whether it be Cards for Battleforge, Stat tomes to LOTRO, Runes and Heroes LoL, Influence points to DoW.

HoN tho offers superior gameplay and only offers cosmetics for sale. without a subscription. So i find it hard to belive that the Good people at Reverie studios cant just make a subscription based MMORTS and leave this scaming hustling people buisness alone.

TriggerHappyNDB
01-21-2011, 02:04 PM
Del, I really think you're blowing the micro-transaction model out of proportion in terms of how regularly it is used to exploit players, and to what extent when it is. After studying business in college and spending a good deal of time analyzing the F2P and P2P models out of personal interest in the market, I say with confidence that, while F2P has the potential for greater earnings based on what a company decides to actually sell, the P2P model is not the only potentially respectable model available to developers.

I've played WoW for a long time, and Blizzard uses both a P2P model and a micro-transaction model simultaneously; You pay monthly fees for the core game that everyone has equal access to (granted the time to do so) and you opt to pay other, additional fees for purely cosmetic items or character services such as name, faction, or server changes. Do these micro-transactions break the game? Not at all. They strengthen the game by offering a variety of optional tools and cosmetic perks to players and supplementing the income of the developer, who needs sustained income to stay in business and support their game. The overheard costs for a game in the MMO meta-genre are staggering--the development, ideally, never really stops.

Blizzard's content patches usually come monthly--ostensibly we could then say that WoW players like myself pay $15 per patch. That doesn't even account for the expansions or base game client, which are paid for separately.

DoF really is approaching the same function with a different pay model. You will simply be able to choose when and in what order to apply those content patches and pay for them individually, rather than forcibly each month. The fundamental difference is that balance changes, which Blizzard puts in each monthly patch, will be given to you for free, apart from these updates. Ironically, this actually makes DoF's model a better value for you, the customer.

I only just recently heard about and took interest in DoF, but what I've seen is not the talk of greedy, manipulative game designers working to create a platform for extortion disguised as a video game. The RTS genre hasn't had many successful forays into the MMO meta-genre, and few would be willing to put down a monthly fee for access. They're just making the appropriate business moves in the interest of their development time. If you so vehemently desire them to "Scrap it all toghether [sic]" rather than adopt a feasible and potentially consumer-friendly model, you might be better off finding another MMORTS game that suits your tastes more closely.

As for me and mine, we'll be watching DoF eagerly to see how they approach their chosen payment model. It's a simple matter of not creating a vast gap between "haves" and "have-nots" through micro-transactions; easily avoided by not selling tactical advantages for real world money, which I have seen no indication of whatsoever.

GPS51
01-21-2011, 02:05 PM
Hmm that seems to be a matter of personal opinion. I'd rather not have a monthly fee and have for pay DLC. Also keep in mind that stronger units cost more money. So it's not like getting super units for the same cost when playing someone who didn't pay up in pvp.

LiTos456
01-21-2011, 02:23 PM
Here's a nice Quote "F2P brings significantly more profit to the developers than a subscription model"" From Lito. Lets Translate, saying that this game will cost more then a subscription based MMO if you wanna enjoy it fully. Recent Trends are BS move away from money sucking and fast.

I don't think you understood me properly. What I meant is that F2P attracts significantly more players, all of which pay very little but considering the rise in activity it all adds up to bring more profit. Profit that goes to developing the game and adding features they couldn't have previously with a lower budget.

You can still subscribe to LOTRO with $15 a month and get all the quests and everything else. I have noticed that the quest packs in LOTRO do cost a lot, but if you pay $15 per month you get them all.

Either way, like Trigger said you seem to be blowing this out of proportion, instantly judging DoF for scamming your money before you've even played it and generally flaming the F2P model that games currently use without properly analyzing it.
And don't forget that DoF is not F2P. It will get a majority of its' proft from the one time buy model. The influence micro-transactions will be fairly minimal and will be as Joseph mentioned mainly used for extra quests and such for you to do if you want.

Seriously, you seem to be taking a bit of a too large concern about this. Reverie is just an indie company, we honestly have no intention of making a money sucker game.

Henry Martin
01-21-2011, 02:34 PM
Delicious like litos and triggerhappy are saying, you are blowing this out of proportion. First of the influence that you can get, you either can pay for it will real money or earn it in game (read the FAQs thread).

"Q: What is Influence?
A: Influence is a fifth resource that can be accumulated as a reward for questing and warfare. Influence can then be spent on DLC and expansion packs in lieu of real money, allowing everyone to upgrade their game with the newest quests and content without paying a dime if they are active enough players."

Secondly in DOF you are getting the whole game, you don't have to spend money on influence points if you don't want too, like I mentioned be for you earn it in game. Personally I don't like paying a monthly subscription on a game I just spent 50-60 $ on, But be given the option to pay a little bit for something extra if I want too.

GoGoCactusMan!
01-21-2011, 04:07 PM
As I have said in other posts, I would like to see brainstorming on options in multiple different models with multiple different advantages.

I for one am a gamer where I will gladly shell out the money for something if it is worth it.

So far, I feel the system that Reverie is setting up seems sound, and somewhat similar to EVE to a certain extent. EVE also has a system in place where you can actually buy your monthly subscription with in game money, similar to how some DLC with DoF will be purchasable by people with enough in game Influence.

So far, we have not seen anything that would cause for alarm with game balance due to the implementation of this system, so I feel like DeliCious is sort of missing what Reverie is actually doing with the game.

Going back to what I said near the top though, I would be willing to pay for the game via a sub or micro transaction if there was content that was worth while. I fear that unless the studio can feed MEANINGFUL content at a steady pace, I will see the community (that is pretty impressive to me so far) dwindle through waning interest.

Also, the being able to buy content with Influence makes me wonder a bit about the rate at which you can earn it. I know how you earn it, but I'm curious as to how it all translates. If its too easy, then barely anyone will actually be paying the studio money for future content (save for physical expansions) and I wouldn't want to see the game go under because of this.

Ichigo
01-21-2011, 04:53 PM
I prefer the option to pay as I go model, so if I am playing the game a lot one month maybe I can acquire a lot influence and get new content, but if I have a busy month and can't play as much, I won't be hit with the 15/ monthly fee for a game I don't play (I'm looking at you WoW!)

From what I can tell the way they plan on setting it up is about as good as it can get with being fair to all players as much as possible. I guess what it will come down to is if the extra content is worth the cost in money or influence.

In the end you can still play this game without being forced to pay a monthly fee. If you like the game, you can spend 5,10,15 bucks a month on extras. I don't really see that as a negative.

akyko
01-21-2011, 06:14 PM
I Guess i just miss the days where i could just buy a game and get the full game. without someone trying to scam me, for more money constantly with small annoying little DLC that should just be included free of charge. with an expansion added once every year or so.

And by the way in LoL and Battleforge and LOTRO you dont just buy cosmetics you buy yourself ahead.

Whether it be Cards for Battleforge, Stat tomes to LOTRO, Runes and Heroes LoL, Influence points to DoW.

HoN tho offers superior gameplay and only offers cosmetics for sale. without a subscription. So i find it hard to believe that the Good people at Reverie studios cant just make a subscription based MMORTS and leave this scamming hustling people business alone.

Like a few others have said i think your blowing things out of proportion, you don't know the cost of the DLC in points or actual money or how many points you'll get per game or mission.

You will be getting a full game it includes: 3 game modes(Online Kingdom(MMORTS), Kingdom Wars(Single), and Skirmish Mode(Coop or Single), 3 Races(Man, Orcs, Elves), and a map editor.

You don't have to buy yourself ahead in any of those games you can spend time to get them.

Battleforge: I'll agree you cant PvP very well with just F2P cards, but there are tutorial videos out there of players doing Expert PvE videos with them. If you want to PvP go spend 10$ and buy the real game on amazon for 32 more cards + 3000 BFP which can get you alot of cards. I think that what the most expensive card is around 1300 and most of those are just for ease of use in PvE and they're that expensive because they're Amii Edition which is limited because that deck isn't out yet. Average useful Rare/Ultra is probably 100-200.

LOTRO: Dunno much about it so can't say anything about that one.

LoL: Heroes are supposed to be balanced, so your not really getting any advantage just a new play style, and you can buy them with IP(6300IP or 7.50$ for the most expensive) which means every month they release 2 new characters you either can spend 15$(A normal sub price) or play 450IP worth of games a day(First Win(250) + 6 Bot Farms(70*6=350) doing that should take you around 2hrs a day. (2 Games(30min each 50% win chance) + 12min per practice game). Runes: 3x HP Quints (3x2050=6150IP) 9x Red (410x9=3690IP) 9x Blue(410x9=3690IP) 9x Yellow(410x9=3690IP) or a total of 17220IP and you cant buy runes with RP, so you cant buy yourself ahead here either, so it takes you about a 2months of just "First Wins" to build a full Rune Page.

DoW: Unless Dwarfs and Dragon add-ons are so brokenly overpowered you cant win with the 3 included races. You can take your time and earn the influence in-game unless you want to play their play style right away, and if they're that overpowered somethings is wrong and people will notice and quit or complain.

Dalkor
01-21-2011, 10:10 PM
Like I said earlier, If you want to pay to play add 15$ to your account each month and use it towards the DLC when it comes out, from the way it sounds you will quite quickly have so many influence points that you won't know what to do with them all.

In the end, don't knock it before you try it.

DeliCious
01-22-2011, 07:16 AM
In WoW you can't buy items or anything that furthers your character its cosmetics and mounts.

i hope you are all right and iam making itl larger then it is, still if WoW sold Experience points or gold it would face alot of criticsm for good reason. and i dont see how selling influence points and or quests that make you stronger is any better this is not a F2P game and should not be opereated as such.

And having a forum with only fans is a dangerous thing just look at Starcraft 2 and their "Trends" Adding facebook to Starcraft 2 was an epic fail yet scraping the channels were considered the future and was praised before it came out. Perhaps if the Forum reacted stronger pre release it could be avoided.

To be honest tho i cant realy say anything untill i plalyed it and even if i get an beta key i still wont be able to say anything ^^ for a while.


"Fans are your worst enemiy and Critics your best friend".

Th3 Mastodon
01-22-2011, 08:28 AM
The points can be a good thing as long as its no giving a player so much that it becomes unfair to the player who cant afford these points.

DeliCious
01-23-2011, 06:21 AM
But what if your Playing this very competive and someone else is to the only diffrence is that he buys as many Influence points and everything he can.

it can never be fair, and it leads to frustration where you feel that i cant play this game anymore unless i start paying large sums of money to get even with the rest. and Trust me it happends everywhere where this system is in place. i just find it odd that nobody brought up the subject. Blizzard said when they were talking about gold farmers that it ruins the quaility of the game to be able to buy say gold.

JurassicPork
01-25-2011, 01:50 AM
Its very difficult to strike a balance between F2P and monthly fees. I prefer the F2P for the same reason as Ichigo. Its a pay as you play and I don't feel guilty about not playing in a busy month as I won't be wasting $15 or whatever. With an F2P there has to be some revenue from the game for it to be properly sustainable. I agree that it isn't fair when you invest time and someone invests a day and load of cash to jump past you but life's not fair :). There has to be an incentive to buy content to provide the revenue but that content should be free if someone puts the time in. How long it takes is the kicker but it has to be long enough to make a player seriously consider paying instead. At the end of the day you get what you pay for.

As DoF will be a full game with a one time purchase I am not too bothered about the DLC afterwards. Most games offer microtransactions/DLC and I haven't seen anything said yet that leads me to believe I will have invest further money just to be able to compete.

We don't yet know what influence points you will be able to buy and how much that will "influence" your advantage over others.

ElegantPete
01-25-2011, 06:06 AM
I don't have a major objection to micro payments for a boost, or even for new content, DLC or otherwise.

What I do have a problem with is the constant, in your face offerings to purchase this content. In particular, LOTR really gets at you all the time, with the trick buttons and trap questions and you end up with that damn store window open again.

If you're going to implement this kind of thing, please keep it out of the game, and restrict it to the splash screen, or ingame menu or better yet, browser and account website.

Continuity is really important to me, new content needs to be seamless.

Saying that, following the LOTR model of offering subscriptions or micro payments is probably the best place to be.

Cheers,
Pete

emotionalone
01-25-2011, 06:44 AM
i rather have the game provide you with cosmetic or otherwise non-detrimental for game experience when it comes cash shop items

LiTos456
01-25-2011, 01:33 PM
Stop comparing it to WoW. This isn't WoW. Seriously.
Delicious, just stop. You know you're wrong about your prediction of DoF becoming a money hungry game. Me, everyone else, and even the developers already told you it won't be like that. Trust me, you won't see that in this game. And it isn't F2P, for the last time, you pay once. You don't pay after that, but that still doesn't mean it can be labeled as F2P because it's not.

darkviju
01-26-2011, 12:46 PM
I hope there will be enought with the base game, or even with DLCs adding interesting things such as new areas, quests, etc.

TheHoboGod
01-26-2011, 02:40 PM
Couldn't have really said it better myself.

But to add to it, it also includes more downloadable content such as special quests or even entire expansion packs or campaigns, maybe some co-op humans vs AI campaign that we will create after the game is released, keep a steady flow of new content that everone can purcahse with Wealth, not real money (so everyone can unlock the content but it takes a massive amount of time to gain that much wealth or just buy it with real money instantly).

Well, if you're going to implement buying expansion packs with in-game money, is it all going to be one currency so that people who have been long time players receive good amounts of in-game money just by playing and are able to further expand their game? Because I was mad when I couldn't go farther than level 18 in LOTRO without paying for the next area.

Negthareas
01-27-2011, 08:17 AM
As I understand it, you can go as far as you like with Influence, there is no limit, it is just that it takes longer to get influence in -game than it does [obviously] if one buys it with real money.

TriggerHappyNDB
01-27-2011, 08:49 AM
I'm kind of at a loss here.

From what we've been told, there is absolutely no indication that Influence points will in any way be able to purchase an advantage over another player.

It does not cost Influence to create more powerful units.
It does not cost Influence to research new technologies for your race.
It does not cost Influence to gather the resources which you use for the above purposes.
It does not cost Influence to advance your hero in the story.

Why, exactly, are we debating the merits of having a "potentially game-breaking" Influence points system when there are no ways in which Influence points can break the game? All we're aware of them actually doing is functioning as a form of rebate-reward system. You play the game, earn influence points, and--if you have played enough--there is a chance you can purchase a pack of downloadable (read: completely optional) content without having to pay any real money. If you haven't earned enough Influence, you can simply spend actual dollars to purchase the remaining Influence needed to buy that DLC.

Influence points are simply a pool of in-game, fictional currency units that Reverie designed as a way to reward players who play often and experience the entire scope of the game. They do not offer any advantage to those players except potential monetary savings on content that offers no advantage to one player over another.

Energy
01-28-2011, 06:00 AM
Agreed. But how is the company going to make money?

TriggerHappyNDB
01-28-2011, 07:11 AM
Agreed. But how is the company going to make money?

The same way may developers do through the Xbox LIVE marketplace, to give a somewhat suitable comparison.

Xbox game designers develop a game and sell it at retail for around $60. The revenue from this usually goes to supporting a new project by that same development team, like a sequel to that game or an entirely new franchise. With the advent of console-based internet connections, many of those developers now put out DLC (downloadable content) packs that you can purchase for a nominal fee. These too, go towards development of their next games, but there are often only a small handful of them and they rarely have more than a few hours of content.

Reverie will likely have a similar model. They will sell DoF at retail and, instead of charging a monthly fee like some MMOs have, offer DLC packs that are both more frequent and more content-packed for purchase to their customers. The revenue from these DLC packs will go towards their next project (likely an expansion) and to continuing design of their next DLC.

In this example, you would liken Influence points to Microsoft Points (MSP) on the Xbox LIVE Marketplace: You have to convert real money into MSP and use MSP to buy the DLC. The difference here is that DoF will actually award Influence (read: free DLC discounts) to avid players--a practice Microsoft hasn't really done outside of contests.

Loose Morals
01-29-2011, 09:12 PM
another way some people get round this is by having all the micro transactions going toward things that are not significantly game changing. mainly cosmetic items like thay have in Guild wars.
they do sell other things for lazy people but nothing that you can get in game through work or get an item that is similar but not got that elite status of the bought item. i see the game has naval battles. you could "buy" a special ship like in empire total war dlc. yes its nice to have but a player who does not have it is not significantly dissadvantaged.

there are all sorts of ways you can get plenty revenue from micro transactions without making it pay to win. ive seen other mmos go to heavy on the pay to win scenario. sure they get alot of money from the big spenders to start with but then the low/middle spenders get bored and quit. then the big spenders run out of people to play with and they too quit. balance has to be maintained

Joseph Visscher
01-29-2011, 09:44 PM
Well, if you're going to implement buying expansion packs with in-game money, is it all going to be one currency so that people who have been long time players receive good amounts of in-game money just by playing and are able to further expand their game? Because I was mad when I couldn't go farther than level 18 in LOTRO without paying for the next area.

Again hard to compare this to a RPG. But yes, the goal is to allow everyone to eventually upgrade with wealth/influance (pretty sure the name is now wealth, influence was the old name) to new content and even expansion packs.

_Caranthir
01-31-2011, 05:52 AM
I like microtransactions more than monthly fee for the RTS style of the game.

NobleIre
01-31-2011, 10:00 AM
I agree with the transactions. Some people go completely nuts when they read 'microtransactions' without bothering to consider what those may or may not be used for. I actually think that microtransactions can be a good thing, depending on how they are used. Certainly, they should not provide any serious advanced in-game. However, I even wouldn't mind if they gave someone a tiny advantage in some way.

But particularly, when they are offered for other, non strategic, aspects of the game - then they are absolutely fine. Even more so if you can earn them in-game.

boondock5aint
02-01-2011, 10:04 AM
It should work well so long as the income of influance you can get from playing the game is high enough,

basically so long as you would call yourself a well above casual but not a hardcore player finding yourself only spending around the same or even slightly less than a subscription based model i wont complain.

Casual players wont be as competitive and will probably settle for a similar cost or just go with the flow, while the hardcore will be able to manage for almost free or even free.

That balance is key to making a model like this work. But the balance has to be nailed.

Conceive
02-01-2011, 12:00 PM
I think what people are mainly worried about is where does it end?

Let me tell you a story about a MMO I played a while ago, that was phenomenal (in my eyes) and had a lot of potential. They introduced a "market" where you can buy fun items to make you temporarily bigger, colors going all willy nilly and stuff like that and people payed a low price for it which was fun and did not affect game play what so ever. But, the GM's saw that they were having a nice income and became hungry for more, so they started selling items that helped you upgrade items easier with out them breaking, they started selling armor, gold, potions ANYTHING that yielded them a monetary value which made the game weaker because of people buying gear (which by the way does not equate to skill) it tipped the scales and eventually ruined the game. It was then sold to another company and made somewhat playable but to people with money being at the top consistently.

I hope that the this game will do things differently, keeping it cosmetic and not ruining the game for others who have less funds.

The way it was explained "influence" can be earned in game as a 5th recourse which has no real effect on game play if purchased I think del may have jumped the gun a little bit and should have done a little more research into the topic. But I appreciate his standpoint and fears.

Thaiden
02-02-2011, 03:43 AM
Although I do think F2P is very awesome, even 10$ a month from every player can make a good game into a great one if the devs know they have money coming in at a constant rate. I'm all in for the F2P model, I just don't want to see IP destroy the progression element of the game and if ANYTHING provde a 'very' small bonus to make it easier for the player. *crosses fingers*

Kimbad
02-02-2011, 05:40 AM
This is true.
But this system is not inherently bad; From the time the content is accessible game from influence, it will not pose a problem in the long term.
If, indeed, a feature is available in the game after three months of actual play, so he can get it instantly buy with real money, then it may be problematic.
Online gamers who generally pay accounts on media mmorpg will not find it unpleasant.
It is simply that it does not run like a F2P market upraroxxor ...

Smikis
02-02-2011, 09:11 AM
lotro is one of worst examples while pointing to f2p game , buying game cost 10 times less than actually buying quest packs and zone unlocks and all that, so its kinda messed up, not to mention cap on gold items, and everything else.. i hope this will be nothing more of new dlcs and skins, which wont be priced 10 bucks per 5 quests.. where expansion pack featuring all that costs same 10 bucks , and brings 10 times more as in lotro..

Pilus
02-05-2011, 06:06 PM
I personally would prefer to see it funded by microtransactions rather than a monthly fee. However I just hope that the gain from those payments will not tip the scales so much that they are needed for you to have an enjoyable experience with the game.

Griegor Mcvennor
02-05-2011, 11:37 PM
Lets not forget this particular issue.

F2P has several major effects on games.

1. People have a habit of making multiple accounts for the purpose of gaining an advantage over their fellow players. This happens no matter how many characters they have to level up to gain said advantage.

2. The maturity level goes through the basement. You end up with tons of people who fit the following a catagories.
a. Sociopathic individuals who do everything they can to disrupt the play experience and are not held back due to having a minimal financial investment in their character.
b. Young kids and children who tend to lower the intelligence level as well as the over all flavor of the game in terms of role playing. Typically the free to play kids are the "Leet speak" types who tend to ruin the atmosphere in any sort of public chat.
c. Fly by night players who join random clans and either leave again shortly after or serve as a disruption causing as much damage as they can before they quit or are booted. Normally not an issue but in F2P they become more common and it becomes very difficult to maintain a community because people have less of an incentive to log in every night if they are again investing nothing into the game financially.

3. Cross nation cheating becomes a problem due to the multiple account thing. Player's log in on opposite races, alliances, nations, what have you and feed strategic information about thier enemy from an account that is logged in and friendly to that enemy.



These things don't generally impact F2P games that lack major pvp but in a game like this where you have somthing to gain or lose, F2P generally causes endless cheating and meta gaming.

darklegends8
02-07-2011, 03:34 PM
Lets not forget this particular issue.

F2P has several major effects on games.

1. People have a habit of making multiple accounts for the purpose of gaining an advantage over their fellow players. This happens no matter how many characters they have to level up to gain said advantage.

2. The maturity level goes through the basement. You end up with tons of people who fit the following a catagories.
a. Sociopathic individuals who do everything they can to disrupt the play experience and are not held back due to having a minimal financial investment in their character.
b. Young kids and children who tend to lower the intelligence level as well as the over all flavor of the game in terms of role playing. Typically the free to play kids are the "Leet speak" types who tend to ruin the atmosphere in any sort of public chat.
c. Fly by night players who join random clans and either leave again shortly after or serve as a disruption causing as much damage as they can before they quit or are booted. Normally not an issue but in F2P they become more common and it becomes very difficult to maintain a community because people have less of an incentive to log in every night if they are again investing nothing into the game financially.

3. Cross nation cheating becomes a problem due to the multiple account thing. Player's log in on opposite races, alliances, nations, what have you and feed strategic information about thier enemy from an account that is logged in and friendly to that enemy.



These things don't generally impact F2P games that lack major pvp but in a game like this where you have somthing to gain or lose, F2P generally causes endless cheating and meta gaming.

Based on what I've read in the faq, I don't think "spying" will be an issue because of how pvp works here.

Kultyz
02-07-2011, 03:37 PM
I'm one of those that believe the existence of sell out some game "advantages" will only make the game less played and somehow less user friendly.

I do believe that if there has to be something sold to those who can and want to spend on it, it could be not advantages, but either visual effects or shiny stuff that would not compromise the game and the equalty of each players but it would bring players who are willing to have their own more exclusive kind of army or something even if it is a more "colourfull" banner to themselves.

TriggerHappyNDB
02-07-2011, 03:44 PM
I'd just like to bring up a quick reminder to the doomsayers that Dawn of Fantasy is not "F2P" in the traditional sense that it literally costs nothing to play. The game itself is not free--it will retail, in all likelihood, around the standard $50-60 mark that is common for all new PC games. You cannot download the title for free, and if I don't miss my guess, you can have only one account per copy of the game via use of unique CD-Key.

That means each individual DoF account would cost $50-60.

Not only would that highly discourage any one person having multiple accounts, but it proves a high monetary barrier-to-entry to anyone who simply wants to grief others.