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Nimlot
12-06-2010, 06:26 PM
Is there any mechanic in this game for making someone your vassal?

I reckon if you beat someone you could force him to join you and pay small ammounts of money every day instead of being totally annihilated :D

I feel this would be a cool feature to the game if it was implemented. Maybe though the vassal would only be a vassal for a few days or could rebell against his/her master at certain situations

Do you guys think it would be booring for the conquered part or would this be a good feature?

Henry Martin
12-06-2010, 06:59 PM
Actually, I like the idea. I don't know how many people would really want this though (damn casual gamers!). This does seem like something that would be in single player instead of multiplayer, but I would like to see this tested, seeing peoples reaction to it. I think those that like role-playing would like this a lot. I think the being a vassal for a few days or some set time limit world work better.

-Sigma-
12-06-2010, 07:29 PM
I like it. I think there should be choices for the victor. Like in the total war series where you could occupy it, enslave it, or simply sack everything and kill everyone. But the problem is how many people in the please base would actually like it. It may turn a lot of people off the game.

But i do like it, i think its a good idea.

Avatarn11
12-07-2010, 12:20 AM
I don't like it because you can kill a game with the super gamers kill everything and not everyone has all day to spend on a game. They said if you win a seige you get alot of resources,gold ect ect ect. i don't know what the losing side gets but there are bonuses to seige how ever you spell it. but you can only do it when the player is online not off.

hooba
12-07-2010, 10:07 AM
I like the idea. It makes the game more immersive. Even if you are on the losing side of the siege it would make things more interesting than just losing. Then if there was some way to find who the conquerers other vassals are you could stage a rebellion with all of them.

Perhaps for the super powers it would be a nice means of gold. But if he gets too greedy with many vassals under him... That will be the downfall of the super power as another player could unite his vassals and he would have A LOT of enemies at the same time lol.

Zeluk
12-08-2010, 12:05 AM
Hmm, forcing someone to join you and continually pay fees just because they lost a battle or two doesn't seem very fun. Kinda obnoxious really, especially for pvp. Maybe a system that would allow high-end players to mentor and possibly ally with lower level players, essentially making them their vassals. For example, granting them bonuses for skirmish battles such as like a squad of elite units or a bonus to resources. In turn the more Vassals a player has the better their bonuses are or maybe an increase to influence. Something along those lines would be more fair.

Sirstroud
12-08-2010, 01:06 AM
Perhaps, if they pay tribute, 1/4 of the Lords forces are sent to defend the vassal when under siege, so they also gain a benefit, but, can fight for independence if they want too :).
Edit: But must send half their forces to defend the lord :)

Nimlot
12-08-2010, 07:05 AM
How about if you win over someone, you can choose either pay money to the winner, or become a vassal for a few days? or just for ONE battle you would be forced to join them? this wouldnt make it as strong and it wouldnt ruin the gameplay for the person beaten.

Or another alternative when you are under attack is to become a vassal to save cities
This would mean if someone with alot more power than you attacks you can choose to become his vassal for a few days to keep your land and armies (but noone can FORCE you to)

Jason Dennic
12-08-2010, 05:10 PM
Hmm, It's a very cool idea, but I don't know... I think having too much conciquences for losing can get really annoying really fast. Especially for newcomers in this game, they will probably lose quite a bit as they start out. And if each time they lose, they have to become a vassal to that person who beat them and continually pay out sums of gold every day to them seems kind of like overkill. Maybe this feature can be implimented in seperate, more hardcore servers meant for more veteran players (if they will have any that is).

I do like Zeluk's suggestion though. I think having bonuses from allying up with strong players is an awesome idea. However, I think that it should only happen in alliances and bonuses should only go to the lower players, or else there could be a lot of "pushing" going on in the game. "Ally with me and give me bonuses or die!!" lol.

Emrus
12-10-2010, 04:16 AM
I like the idea of vasssalge instead of the usual alliance systems which is in place currently in most of the other mmos on market..


I am not sure about all the current game systems exactly as i have never been into the game yet,but here are my two cents on this...

A.A player can become another's vassal by own will :
( as a supporter , i'll mention mostly the advantages only :D)
advantages:
1.free movement of workers/researchers between both the parties(subject to max population limits,if any)
2.Market is more favourable,with reduced/no taxes on trades,if any.
3.Vassal gets protection.
4.Lord CAN collect gold, a certain percentage from vassal,as tax.
5.Vassal can pay a lumpsum amount of resources/gold as fee to terminate vassalge,but he looses his ability to ally with other kingdoms for a certain period

B.A player becomes another player's vassal by war upon loosing:
1.Lord gets tax from Vassal.
2.Vassal can pay a lumpsum amount of resources/gold as fee to gain freedom immediately,but he looses his ability to ally with other kingdoms for a certain period.Though, Vassal can choose to ally with his lord,himself.


Note: these are just a couple of points that come to mind while i prepare my desk for work, they are far from perfect i know, but thought like giving a push to this thread and topic.

Sirstroud
12-10-2010, 04:49 AM
I like the idea of vasssalge instead of the usual alliance systems which is in place currently in most of the other mmos on market..


I am not sure about all the current game systems exactly as i have never been into the game yet,but here are my two cents on this...

A.A player can become another's vassal by own will :
( as a supporter , i'll mention mostly the advantages only :D)
advantages:
1.free movement of workers/researchers between both the parties(subject to max population limits,if any)
2.Market is more favourable,with reduced/no taxes on trades,if any.
3.Vassal gets protection.
4.Lord CAN collect gold, a certain percentage from vassal,as tax.
5.Vassal can pay a lumpsum amount of resources/gold as fee to terminate vassalge,but he looses his ability to ally with other kingdoms for a certain period

B.A player becomes another player's vassal by war upon loosing:
1.Lord gets tax from Vassal.
2.Vassal can pay a lumpsum amount of resources/gold as fee to gain freedom immediately,but he looses his ability to ally with other kingdoms for a certain period.Though, Vassal can choose to ally with his lord,himself.


Note: these are just a couple of points that come to mind while i prepare my desk for work, they are far from perfect i know, but thought like giving a push to this thread and topic.

i like that idea, but shouldn't the vassal have to pay taxes for the protection say, 1000 gold every day/month? so the lord also gains some extra benefits for accepting the Vassal/ and, the vassal may not ally with other nations, unless they are allied to the lord :).

jambon99
12-10-2010, 08:24 AM
I havent played the game yet but I have a few ideas. The first question that im asking myself is how does a player get the chance to rebuild after he was defeated.

One game I player the player had immunity, he could not attack or be attack. This had two advantages,

1- The player had time to rebuild and could actually stand a chance to defeat his conqueror.
2- The player had his freedom and could play free of vassalage.

My feeling is that no one likes to be subordinates, especially in games. You wont stand a chance if you have to pay your conqueror while your his vassal. That would keep him stronger and you weaker.

Emrus
12-10-2010, 09:53 AM
i like that idea, but shouldn't the vassal have to pay taxes for the protection say, 1000 gold every day/month? so the lord also gains some extra benefits for accepting the Vassal/ and, the vassal may not ally with other nations, unless they are allied to the lord :).

yeah you are right in that point. I bring your attention to point A.4) where I have mentioned that "the lord CAN collect tax from the vassal".I specifically mentioned that "CAN" because, if you and your friends were playing together (as an example)and you decide to be your friend's vassal,your lord friend can decide to forego tax to support your development. He still enjoys the other benefits mentioned in the other points above though. so in a way, you both benefit. so, this was the concept i had in mind while i wrote that sentence :D

basically the point is,I would not offer free protection to anyone/ to even my vassal unless the other person knows me in real life/is friend, or may be a gf.:D

So compensation in the form of gold becomes obvious.



I havent played the game yet but I have a few ideas. The first question that im asking myself is how does a player get the chance to rebuild after he was defeated.

Point B.2) has your answer:
B.A player becomes another player's vassal by war upon loosing:
2.Vassal can pay a lumpsum amount of resources/gold as fee to gain freedom immediately,but he looses his ability to ally with other kingdoms for a certain period.Though, Vassal can choose to ally with his lord,himself. May be, the game forces the lord to remain allied with his vassal if the vassal so choses,to offer that extra protection,until canceled by vassal himself. Lord still enjoys the benefits of being a Lord..like ability to collect gold as tax etc..

This way, you can prolly develop your kingdom to a point where you no longer have to depend on your lord for your needs.:D and by that time you would probably have finished the lock-in period of allying with other kingdoms,just in case you wish for more power!;)

Comments welcomed!

blackfang
12-10-2010, 12:10 PM
I like the idea of vassalage, how about this. The vassal might have to fight with his lord, however the lord may send forces to his vassal if they are attacked. This way the vassalage may lead you into a war you might not welcome at the cost of your troops. However, if you have a kind lord he may help you in your battles.

Jack
12-11-2010, 12:51 PM
i have an idea if you want to become a vassel
if you become an vessel of a big city like thorndall and than you are part of that kindom
you probaly will have to pay an percantage of your income but you will be safer in that piont because the city and other vassels can help you if you are in big trouble :cool:

Vimous
12-11-2010, 01:20 PM
An interesting concept would be that in an alliance. There is the king (which roates over several weeks or whomever has contributed most to alliance) That king gets extra powers abilities extra in combat. And everyone else part of that alliance is the vassals.

Jack
12-11-2010, 01:59 PM
i already posted it at alliance :p

Talfryn
12-12-2010, 12:26 PM
A system of Vassals would be really nice if they worked in a cultural pride aspect, IE, no self respecting community of Elves will let their sacred groves fall to orcs, ect.

Commander
12-27-2010, 06:39 AM
1.free movement of workers/researchers between both the parties(subject to max population limits,if any)
2.Market is more favourable,with reduced/no taxes on trades,if any.
3.Vassal gets protection.
4.Lord CAN collect gold, a certain percentage from vassal,as tax.
5.Vassal can pay a lumpsum amount of resources/gold as fee to terminate vassalge,but he looses his ability to ally with other kingdoms for a certain period.
It's a good idea and some browser games have such system , where you can become a vassal and after that you got protection and support in resources . You may sent your soldiers to your lord , if you want . And if you don't , you may not to do that . But he can demand only 10 percents of your income , not much . For your loyality , you may be released from payment . And he can demand payment only from high lvl , not from low lvl , whom he has conquered or who wanna join .

Cathorian
01-15-2011, 12:09 PM
vassals seems like a good idea because it could be like a guild system, and i think the casual players might like it more cause it can offer protection and support against the super gamers who play the game a lot and become really strong. So if you could voluntarily become a vassal for support then it'd be like a guild, or if you were beaten and forced into some sort of time limited vassal arrangement it'd be a bonus for the victor

DeliCious
01-18-2011, 09:52 AM
There is so much that can be done mmorts ? The genre is gigantic only hindered by the restraints of Monetary funds and technology. But vassals is a great idea thou but i guess we would have to been playing it first to see how it could be implemented.. but i wouldent dislike being the vassal of some great empire if i still had control and the option to rebel (At high cost ofc)

cryonso
01-19-2011, 12:51 PM
The vassal idea might work if it is done properly and correctly. Make it good and uderstandable plz

s8man888
01-19-2011, 06:30 PM
I think that any system that allows one player to trade resources for more troop protection with another player, is a good idea.

Zorander
01-20-2011, 12:33 AM
And how about if your paying for protection from a bigger and stronger kingdom if your under attack you get a few free upkeep units from that kingdom automatically, since you never know when the person is going to be online or not to help out.

Basically to make it less demeaning to a player vassals is just another name for alliance, and think of the money used to pay them like payment for the units you get only if your attacked.

reddot
01-20-2011, 02:24 AM
the vassal idea itself would be great for people who dont play so hardcore that they dont mind even if they get dominated, becouse it would still allow them to play.... and possibly allow them to try to rebel at some time?? and the guy who would be the dominator would get some small bonuses to resources or something like that based on the size/income/level of the vassal

Ichigo
01-20-2011, 02:44 AM
I think there are a variety of options here...

Having a Master and Vassal system would have to be a two way street in a game like this, what benefit would allowing another country become a vassal prove to you? Why not just sack their city and be done with it? I think for the Master, it would come in the form of Troops and resources over time. So for example if a Human empire makes an elf country a vassal, then the human empire would receive a certain number and type of elf units every x number of days, and/or a basic set of resources that would amount to more then what they would get from just sacking, just over a longer period of time. This would give the player a more meaningful choice, based on his/her current situation. Do I need resources now? Or can I get more over a period of time, and/or get some different units?

As for the Vassal player, accepting becoming a vassal comes with the cost of less military units, and not having to loose such a large amount of resources all at once. Additionally, Vassal subjects will be under a veil of political protection for x number of turns, based on whatever treaty is drawn up... something like that.

The Master/Vassal system would also have to be finite, so that subjectivity to the Master would not last forever... Breaking the protection/treaty/whatever would have to have penalties in the form of reputation with other nations.

Keep in mind my ideas are without myself having any playing experience with this game, just some thoughts based on the topic subject. :D

ceronor298
01-20-2011, 07:08 AM
It can be done, just gotta get it done right.

Zarachas
01-20-2011, 08:15 AM
Sounds like a balance issue, this vassal thing, at least of you can start getting troops from other factions. But yeah I like the idea. It would also be cool if you where able to release the Vassal state of you attacked the master, og you could threat them to release that way, we could have an alliance actins as world police :P

Cathorian
01-20-2011, 02:31 PM
i dont think getting units from other factions would turn out too great, depending on how realistic the gameplay is because it would be hard to replenish their numbers after a fight and i know some games where having different races in your army affect overall morale and performance

GPS51
01-20-2011, 02:34 PM
Keep in mind you can buy mercs from other races throughout the game. Keeps army life...diverse.

LiTos456
01-20-2011, 05:15 PM
I do like the idea actually. It could actually work.
Basically each region has vassals (other powerful players who pay additional money for land, which later comes back to them from those who rent it) that you can settle with. You wouldn't be able to settle with anyone in another region though, for obvious reasons.

Hurryforcurry
01-22-2011, 01:44 PM
In my opinion, I think they should have a vassal system similar to Civ 4