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Altastico
11-27-2010, 05:32 AM
I was just wondering how balanced the factions are going to be, hopefully it wont be like WoW lately where they try and make every single race and class have exactly the same stats and abilities, following some daft notion of fairness :mad: . I prefer it when its more unbalanced, its always more fun playing as the underdog.

Smerf
11-27-2010, 06:21 AM
I hope it would be more strategic, each faction has its weaknesses and strengths.

evilwithin
11-27-2010, 11:55 AM
well if it goes by the typical starders then humans will be good a defence, tec. elves with long range, magic and orcs with numbers and might(strength)

Alex Walz
11-27-2010, 01:19 PM
Elves - defensive - strongest walls, strongest units, most automated economy, best archers
Men - balanced - best technology, best economy, most diversity
Orcs - offensive - highest population counts, weakest units but with some elites (ogre, berserker, shaman)

lonewolf9567
11-27-2010, 01:23 PM
Elves - defensive - strongest walls, strongest units, most automated economy, best archers
Men - balanced - best technology, best economy, most diversity
Orcs - offensive - highest population counts, weakest units but with some elites (ogre, berserker, shaman)

Elves with the strongest walls? Huh didn't see that coming.

Henry Martin
11-27-2010, 02:54 PM
Elves with the strongest walls? Huh didn't see that coming.

Of course they craft will attention, not like the orcs which just build or the humans which are not far better then the orcs. Now if/when the dwarves are added they will have the best defence, especially walls!

Jack
11-27-2010, 03:02 PM
if there will be dwarf than there had so be a cave netwerk or something
but it is hard to imagine a dwarf stronghold for me:confused:

srpiccoro
11-27-2010, 03:48 PM
That makes you wonder, when/if the dragon faction is added, they'll have fewer population but the strongest units?

Alex Walz
11-27-2010, 04:12 PM
Yeah, but our concept for a dragon race doesn't include too many of the flying, fire-breathing dragons you may be picturing. These are the elite units. The majority of the dragon forces are ground and melee dragons and half-orc, half-dragon beasts called Drakes.

Vigilus
11-27-2010, 11:44 PM
As long as each race feels really different to play then the developers will always have the ability to increase the longevity of their game. having strong abilities tied to certain races and elaborate counters to these abilities while maintaining both players "chance to win" is very important. the greatest thing Starcraft II did was to make each of the three races feel unique and appropriate to the lore. take the zerg for example. they play so different from the other races, and they kick butt. This game needs that kind of difference.

Toth
11-28-2010, 04:14 AM
I half agree, half disagree. Each of these races has alot of potential to be game-breakingly overpowered. The elves because if the archers and walls are too strong compared to the rest, nobody will be able to break in. Humans, techology rushing. Orks, too many units, too quick, there's nothing like an early rush to keep people from playing.

I'm confident it'll get balanced out but at the start I predict alot of funky stuff.

tim1983
11-28-2010, 05:03 AM
Yeah, but our concept for a dragon race doesn't include too many of the flying, fire-breathing dragons you may be picturing. These are the elite units. The majority of the dragon forces are ground and melee dragons and half-orc, half-dragon beasts called Drakes.

Aww man, reptilian dudes.. that would be awesome. I would probably choose those instead of Humans if they were in. pity they are not implemented.. fingers crossed for expansion tho

nickson104
11-28-2010, 08:58 AM
Aww man, reptilian dudes.. that would be awesome. I would probably choose those instead of Humans if they were in. pity they are not implemented.. fingers crossed for expansion tho

A number of us I'm sure became followers for the dragons, Its a pity they were cut, but yes we can always hope :)

jleem21
11-28-2010, 11:36 AM
I'd prefer playing Orcs or Humans. Orcs because when it's time to attack another player's stronghold, I want them to gasp like a lil Japanese anime character when they see my massive army. Humans because, I'd wanna take a break from playing Orcs and I don't think I'd play as the Elves.

nickson104
11-28-2010, 04:34 PM
I'd prefer playing Orcs or Humans. Orcs because when it's time to attack another player's stronghold, I want them to gasp like a lil Japanese anime character when they see my massive army. Humans because, I'd wanna take a break from playing Orcs and I don't think I'd play as the Elves.

Hear Hear!!! :D Someone with my frame of mind!!

lonewolf9567
11-28-2010, 05:18 PM
i honestly cant wait for Dwarves

Henry Martin
11-28-2010, 05:59 PM
i honestly cant wait for Dwarves

Same here, my favorite race. I hope they do a good job with them when/if they add them.

doom132
11-29-2010, 12:00 AM
Even if the races are unbalanced at the start of the release, correct me if im wrong, im pretty sure there will be patches to correct things like that

SmasherKao
11-29-2010, 07:11 PM
lol elves having strongest walls? I would think that humans with stone walls would have best.

Jeremiah87
11-30-2010, 02:43 PM
I always play humans out of habit, never could get into other races :\

atom11
12-01-2010, 09:03 AM
And what about Maakvir. They could be interesting and most unique (water building, swiming), bat maybe hard to balance.

Nimiria
12-01-2010, 09:36 AM
Hmm so humans will not have a good defence? Really thought they will take strong walls and good tec to defend themselves.

I hope they will not make an "one def, one balance, one off Race" with the cost of losing some realism. Canīt imagine elven wooden walls that are stronger then human stone walls.

I hope the "flair" of the races will still be good with all of that :)

Really looking forward to see what will come up :)

huso80tr
12-01-2010, 01:19 PM
if i play this game ,i choose humans

Lord_Itzalak
12-04-2010, 01:19 PM
I didn't see the Elf thing coming either, but maybe it's a wall of living trees, always healing themselves, or petrified wood.

Tenebrion
12-04-2010, 01:27 PM
I hope it would be more strategic, each faction has its weaknesses and strengths.

Agreed. Without balance, the game would be a bit shallow.

Katana
12-04-2010, 02:26 PM
I think its best to have factions that are very different but balanced.

Chojin
12-04-2010, 02:41 PM
You must have a balance, in everygame. Specially in a MMORTS.
If you have overpowered faction, it will kill the game.

The beta is here to test and adjust game balancing (at least I hope so).

I am curious about strengths/weaknesses of each faction :)

theangel04
12-04-2010, 10:14 PM
considering how long this game has been in development i'm sure they have had enough time to balance the races....and there is still more development to come so...hopefully they will be amazing :D

Gwydion
12-04-2010, 11:38 PM
Elves - defensive - strongest walls, strongest units, most automated economy, best archers
Men - balanced - best technology, best economy, most diversity
Orcs - offensive - highest population counts, weakest units but with some elites (ogre, berserker, shaman)

hmmm i didn't think thats how it actually worked, thx for clearing that up, looks like ill be playing elves first now instead of orcs :(

ryuujin
12-05-2010, 03:56 AM
Elves - defensive - strongest walls, strongest units, most automated economy, best archers
Men - balanced - best technology, best economy, most diversity
Orcs - offensive - highest population counts, weakest units but with some elites (ogre, berserker, shaman)

In my opinion.. elves doesn't have the strongest wall i think its just moderate
what makes those walls unbreachable are their archers because i think elves has the best archers in my point of view :D

bamato
12-05-2010, 04:31 AM
I'll chose Men, since they are the most balanced

Benighted
12-05-2010, 04:45 AM
oops... after reading this topic, the elves or human would possibly be my choice :)

Damnedghost
12-05-2010, 12:43 PM
I heard the orcs get numbers and I like hordes of units drowning enemies like a huge wave, so I still would go with the orcs

Marcos182
12-05-2010, 04:43 PM
I choose humans. But boy do i hope each faction will have a totally different feel to it, not just looks. What i expect is to be a consistant Human player, and when I randomly decide to play as orcs or elves, i just feel totally lost :D

That would be a great thing.

TC_AZZ
12-05-2010, 05:24 PM
I was just wondering how balanced the factions are going to be, hopefully it wont be like WoW lately where they try and make every single race and class have exactly the same stats and abilities, following some daft notion of fairness :mad: . I prefer it when its more unbalanced, its always more fun playing as the underdog.

Yeh but then everyone plays the OP race or toon.... Which leaves the game in a boring state.... look at Warhammer Online that game died in the ass because it was imbalanced dont want to see that **** again

Abyssmal
12-06-2010, 08:39 PM
Elves - defensive - strongest walls, strongest units, most automated economy, best archers
Men - balanced - best technology, best economy, most diversity
Orcs - offensive - highest population counts, weakest units but with some elites (ogre, berserker, shaman)

Elves it is, I do love pointy ears. Didn't think Orc's would be weakest units honestly.

sirdustin
12-06-2010, 10:31 PM
I think the Humans are very well balanced the orcs aggressive and the elf's well there more defensive.

Avatarn11
12-06-2010, 11:17 PM
I think they will be balanced. certain races have their great units and weak units. I think it will be from what i've read elves excel at range, orcs infantry ogres being the best unit infantry wise in the game, humans cav units like armored knights. something along those lines i might be way off but i'm sure you can check every great unit with one of your own plus you have mercs and i think thats were the difference will be made up is how good are mercs.

lukas90lca
12-08-2010, 09:19 AM
I'll chose Orcs and I will crush these humans ;> It's good to be evil once in a while ;)

Vimous
12-11-2010, 12:21 PM
I just hope its balanced enough that no one race has a direct advantage over the other.

NewAvenger
12-13-2010, 02:50 AM
What else can be? there are only 3 races so it aint too interesting to have 100% victroy against p.e. elves and 100% defeat against humans

Alezzy
12-13-2010, 01:13 PM
to be honnest i think we will see the ''how the ballanced the races are'' when the online part comes and when the dev's will see it in action and in use of the players ... dont forget .. the computer wont cheat against you but a player will do annything to win!

Aothane
12-13-2010, 01:27 PM
that is true enough, often 'balance' is relative to the state of playerbase, and can further vary according to tiers or skill levels.

reddot
01-20-2011, 02:09 AM
well even if they arent balanced, they can always be balanced afterwards accordingly, especially if more races are added...

GeneralGonzo
01-20-2011, 03:06 AM
If this game sticks to "classic fantasy", then the unit design will be for sure

a) elves with most magic power and best long range units, cloaking and stealth units

b) orcs with brutal force, most HP units and cheapest recruiting

c) humans a good mixture, but more defensive with good armor

Thatīs the way I would go with these three races....

Zarachas
01-20-2011, 05:11 AM
Yeah and would be nice if the elves had some kind of druid units casting nature spells and stuff. I would also like men with assasins or some kind of sneaky attacker...

ceronor298
01-20-2011, 05:58 AM
It may not be balanced at the start. It takes time to balance races out in games. Hell some games that have been out for years still aren't balanced. It takes time.

Quarok
01-20-2011, 08:52 AM
but if it's unbalanced it'll be no fun. I'm pretty sure one of the things they'll be focusing on during the beta testing will be exactly how balanced the factions are. It'll be no fun if elves just pwn and the other factions crumble beneath them, and you'll just end up replete with elves, with a dearth of anything else

edueduedu93
01-20-2011, 11:06 AM
It would be awsome if you can choose by your own the abbilities of your faction, using talents like in WOW or something similar. Think about that producers xD.

SonicMonkey
01-20-2011, 11:51 AM
Balance is always a difficult thing. While i've not been in beta yet, I hope that the units are carbon copies of each other with just a different sprite for each faction. While the base units will obviously be similar....melee troop 1 etc...archer... I hope there are some unique units for each faction that change up game play.

Maybe arial units for elves or orcs. Humans would have extra strong catapults or troops that have stronger defenses due to heavy armor...

Braindawg
01-20-2011, 01:08 PM
Yeah, but our concept for a dragon race doesn't include too many of the flying, fire-breathing dragons you may be picturing. These are the elite units. The majority of the dragon forces are ground and melee dragons and half-orc, half-dragon beasts called Drakes.
Half orcs? hmm thought the dragons would have higher standards. :rolleyes:

GPS51
01-20-2011, 01:11 PM
Hmm it depends on which orcs they're half of i guess. There are some sweet uber orcs and then there are the pansies we all know and hate :D

nobby
01-20-2011, 01:16 PM
Sounds good, but adding more and more races is when it gets v difficult to balance

Chaoticuss
01-20-2011, 01:16 PM
Elves - defensive - strongest walls, strongest units, most automated economy, best archers
Men - balanced - best technology, best economy, most diversity
Orcs - offensive - highest population counts, weakest units but with some elites (ogre, berserker, shaman)

Humm, I don't see the elves are strongest army, maybe it's just me but the elves usually tend to hang back and catch people by surprise, a strongest army to me would seem to be more along the lines of people with a stronger history other than hiding in the woods depending on magic/bows. Strong arches yes, overall army not to sure.

Braindawg
01-20-2011, 01:21 PM
well if these elves are imortal like elves in almost every other fantasy world then their foot soldiers and cavalry will probly be dependant on their skills in battle like parrying attacks alot and dodgeing them. and if their not imortal then their probly just skilled fighters.

Jolleyboy
01-20-2011, 11:44 PM
We're making an awful lot of assumptions here about things that wont be ironed out for some time.
I do hope that each race is diversified enough to suit different play styles, and that each style of play will have a similar chance of success.

I tell ya tho, if this game pulls off everything it is trying to be, it is going to take the market by storm... I've dreamed of games like this.

SonicMonkey
01-21-2011, 07:27 AM
I'm suprised by the Elves being the defensive race. But what ever that race is...I'll probably start off there. I'm a turtle at heart in RTS games. Build a strong homeland and then move out to crush your foes.

Balancing the game will always be a challenge. Creating 3 unique races with their own playstyles is difficult enough. Now you have to balance them in PVE as well as PVP settings. Many MMO's have crumbled to player complaints. Then the developers attempt to balance and rebalance for one or the other pve/pvp based on complaints and it just ends up with nerfs and tweaks until the game is left broken. That's why I applaud long beta testing. Get the balance the way you want before release. let people try to exploit balance issues so you can fix them before the game goes public and people get used to it.

Kashindo
01-21-2011, 07:48 AM
balance is a very important aspect, but of course the fractions should have a different gameplay. This is not easy to manage, so i hope that you take enough time for this.

Negthareas
01-21-2011, 08:10 AM
Just to note... because this has been in development for a while, actually the races do seem to be quite balenced, each with its own unique flavor [gurd! Elf taste sweet!] :rolleyes: and playing styles.

Units are all varied - you will be hard pressed to find two units from different factions that are similar.

On Elves having the best defences... look, they have been around far longer than the other races, and have had plenty of time to construct their walls, working down each one to near faultless perfection... they know how to build and build well. Humans may have more numbers and a knack for engineering, but they cannot match the craft or finesse of the elves. Hence the better walls. Also, the point concerning the elvish archers helping a lot with the walls is also correct, and much of the issue, since walls cannot be knocked down. Entry to a City is gained by getting atop the wall or by forcing your way through the gate. Thus the strength of a wall is truly the strength of the warriors defending it. Elves have the best defensive warriors [archers and Bladestorms - which are sweet].

Anyway, check around. Look at the old Fantasy Fridays, or FanFries as I call them. Most of te units are described in detail there.

TriggerHappyNDB
01-21-2011, 09:29 AM
Can't say I'm too terribly surprised with the direction of each race--they tend to hold true to the high-fantasy stereotypes that are perpetuated by popular novels, games, and other media. Isn't it strange that just as we have preconceived notions about some real-world cultures, past or present, we also have preconceived notions about mythical cultures?

For instance, most assume orcs are barbaric, dwarves are stubborn, humans are adapatable, and elves are aloof. Most classical interpretations support these assumptions, with a few notable exceptions occuring, sprinkled throughout for dramatic effect. Unsurprisingly (appropriately, really), Dawn of Fantasy subscribes to these stereotypes for the strengths and weaknesses of each army, just as most games featuring these races have. I personally don't have any qualms with the direction they've taken--except of course, not having Dwarves in the release candidate... tsk tsk. Such a colorful group they are, and a personal favorite!

As for people unsure of the logic behind elves being better defensively than humans, I beg you not to let whatever experience you may have (with Warcraft III, perhaps?) to taint your understanding there. Elves are accepted as reclusive in most mythoses just as humans are accepted as adaptable, so it made sense to qualify those characteristics as "defensive" and "balanced". The elves having strong walls is simply a unique facet to Elves in the Dawn of Fantasy mythos, where in others the race may not have needed walls to achieve the same status. You see, the game mechanics simply wouldn't allow for a defensive race without any walls--which is how Elves are presented in most media. Also, elven walls compared to human walls aren't technically "wood vs. stone" arguments. After all, those would be clearly in favor of stone, right? Elven walls in DoF appear to be a mixture of hardened wood and marble, which actually gives them a sizable advantage over straight stone construction with wooden framing.

Just a long-winded thought :).

skyhouse71
01-21-2011, 11:24 AM
The game is still being made so I am sure that balancing will continue to be done throughout beta and when the game goes live. I agree with others here that if they can achieve the same balance that Starcraft 2 has (i.e. each faction is unique but still has the same chance of winning) that would be ideal.

akyko
01-21-2011, 07:02 PM
Think what I'm most worried is that orc will be overpowered early game and be able to rush and win, that elves will be so turtled in endgame they can't be touch and will just keep slowly expanding out. and man if left alone will be able to get so far ahead in tech you cant catch up.

Rhino
01-21-2011, 08:15 PM
Each race should feel unique in its own way. That being said you do not want all races to have exactly the same stats ect. I guess you should have them balanced but in their own different kind of way

LiTos456
01-21-2011, 08:53 PM
I can tell you now fellas that the races are all very different, having their advantages and disadvantages. Balance is extremely important and I can guarantee that it's top priority to get the balance right. But the best part is that you will get a completely different gameplay experience with each race, allowing you to be proficient at one and not the others, and truly call yourself a master of DoF if you know all three races in and out. ;)

modernatomic
01-21-2011, 09:02 PM
It sounds like the three races line up into the usual strategy types, Elves for turtling, Orcs for rushing, and Humans in the middle, more flexibility to go either way. This should be pretty balanced; hopefully if/when new races are added, it will be for a new playstyle/strategy and not just a new ability.

For example hopefully Dwarves won't just be Elves (turtles) that can surprise you from underground but a whole new strategy such as counterattacking, let's say they can break sieges more easily and exploit under-defended towns but are at a disadvantage in open terrain.

magicalbull
01-22-2011, 06:48 AM
With all the factions having their own unique units, would it also be a good idea, depending upon which area you were in, able to hire some form of mercinaries, which could be completely different to the generic unit that, that faction could recruit. As an example the elves able to hire some orc pirates or something like that?

Th3 Mastodon
01-22-2011, 08:11 AM
I think they seem quite balanced

Hurryforcurry
01-22-2011, 12:37 PM
Can someone explain to me how the questing works in this game? Will it be on a overall map system like Total War or king arthur?

Barca
01-23-2011, 12:40 AM
Will players be able to ally with other races like a Human Orc alliance? would that allow players to fight together against other races or does it have to remain segregated?

Verrenth
01-23-2011, 02:40 AM
I like the way factions look right now as far as balance is concerned if and when they add dragons/dwarfs as playable races im interested to see how they will balance them into the grand scheme of it all.

Yet1
01-23-2011, 08:21 AM
I'm rly glad to see what Alex Walz's wrote. Elves being focused on defence makes me smile even more ;).

The bigest problem in typical RTS is campaign. Some race are rly unbalanced because they need to have some adv that can be used to pass it without a HUGE problem. That was the problem in w3, Mark of Chaos and LOVED by me (same as w3) Dawn of War 3 where space marined bought some terminators and the game was over ;).

boiky
01-23-2011, 09:46 AM
Elves - defensive - strongest walls, strongest units, most automated economy, best archers
Men - balanced - best technology, best economy, most diversity
Orcs - offensive - highest population counts, weakest units but with some elites (ogre, berserker, shaman)

as i know orcs also have the weakest wall is that right?
its just so much info to read about dof and i might have missed some of them
by looking into these races i kind of feel like back to the lord of ring
just also wonder how the balance is same or different to each other
at least dof seems to have more unit and more things to do(play) in the game

Zary
01-23-2011, 11:31 AM
I hope factions are balanced! I mean, you have to know your race to win against another player! is more important skill than te faction. Two players with similar skills must have the same opportunities of conquer another faction, independly of his race, obviously that they have to play as their race must be played!

luizeba
01-23-2011, 12:40 PM
Probably it'll be Rock Paper Scissors, e.g. Humans => Orcs => Elves => Humans.

VanguardX
01-23-2011, 03:38 PM
Elves - defensive - strongest walls, strongest units, most automated economy, best archers
Men - balanced - best technology, best economy, most diversity
Orcs - offensive - highest population counts, weakest units but with some elites (ogre, berserker, shaman)


Of course balance is critical in any competitive game environment.

By looking at the above quote, it appears that the elves are a quality over quantity race, and are strongest when defending.

While the units, and other technical aspects of the race may be 'balanced' I think the elves will be the choice of power gamers for not so obvious, non-technical reasons- the human factor, the real person playing the game. Why you may ask?

#1. fewer, high quality units are easier for a player to manage, and control.
#2. being defensive in nature also requires less player control for movement, and logistics.
#3. automated economy again requires less player input.

This allows for an elf player to focus more of his player abilities/attention on the actual fighting of the units.

Opposed to a Human, or Ork player needing to focus more player attention to resource gathering/economy, and more troops to manage. Elf player economies will be running at 100% during battles (due to automated economy), while humans, and orks will have their resource gathering/economy based troops stagnant, and inefficient during battle.

In short, Elven players will be able to concentrate more on the actual fighting than their opponents will be able to, and will not suffer as much from the "idle resource gathering troop syndrome". I am having a hard time picturing how that can be easily balanced.

Shinigami
01-23-2011, 04:06 PM
looks good

Desthin
01-24-2011, 09:01 PM
While i generally agree that balance is a good thing, in terms of RTS's i also occasionally like the fact that you can take a completely horrible group and demolish the higher ups with more skill, if they are all balanced than it takes less overpowering skill to win yes? totally ruins the victory dance if your only JUST better than they are.

As a whole tho, i would definitely like more balance as opposed to complete imbalance to the point of auto winning all the time cause your race is that awesome.

Peacebringer01
01-24-2011, 11:05 PM
I love the 3 different races being quite different in play style. It will really make you think about who your facing and what their strengths and weaknesses are, not just how they look

LiTos456
01-25-2011, 02:08 PM
slip

Yeah, that's pretty much it. That's why me loves elves so much. :3

Obygden
01-28-2011, 03:58 AM
I personally welcome this "new" type of Elves. In most games they usually have really good technology but not so strong units.
So to see that they this time will be quite capable of taking care of themselves is for me really good news. I'd love to see a bunch of elven-archers standing on the walls firing volley after volley of arrows on the attacking enemy!

Khan kreiger
01-28-2011, 10:01 AM
hmm ok so if im orc i wont be attacking any elve strongholds:( they are too tough id probably go after them on the battle field for id win with a huge cheap army at my dissposal. Id most likely go for a human stronghold because there is a 50/50 chance of me winning up to strategy and in open battle :D
But pretty much if someone attacks me other then another orc i maay die :(

MoLiva
01-30-2011, 05:03 PM
Elves may have the strongest walls, but a sissy elf is still a sissy elf once you get past all their fancy schmancy walls

eternal2u
01-30-2011, 11:41 PM
so for all of us speed rushers orcs are a sure fit eh.

Badguy82
01-31-2011, 01:19 AM
I think I am gonna start off as Human til I get a better feel for the game. Then I will probably go Orc.

Thaiden
01-31-2011, 01:45 AM
What does that mean for elves, 'automated economy' sounds like lazy development to me.

_Caranthir
01-31-2011, 05:54 AM
Every new game need time to balance classes/factions/races :D

billy341
01-31-2011, 07:01 AM
Every new game need time to balance classes/factions/races :D

Thats what betas are for, for us to get them the info needed.