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View Full Version : Outposts (defensive and trade)


dominus()
05-31-2010, 04:44 PM
Im quite new on the DOF front so bear with me if i suggest something which may already be part of the game...

As your castle becomes more developed i think it should be an option to build outposts for both trade and defense, this could lead to more interesting merging of the combat and trade/economy system due to the implications of having an trade outpost raided. It also increases game playability because it creates a more interesting skirmish/defend hybrid where smaller task forces could clash.

I feel that this is something which is often overlooked in games which seek to have a empire building style and would make for much more interesting economic gameplay

There could also be raids on caravan routes however this may be harder to implement due to the nature of the economy continuing while a player is offline and the combat not. although it could be interesting to have dedicated units who defend trade routes between different kingdoms ect

just a couple of suggestions
im open to any positive/ negative critism and due to being new if anyone could enlighten me on the diversity of combat scenarios, that would be great :)

LoveToKill
05-31-2010, 05:14 PM
While im aware we can build outpost im not exactly sure to what extent i belive so far its mostlyin sigeing ordefence however i think haveing it being ableto be used to trade with others aswell to be quite benificial

Srry for my spellin imnot to great at it im more of a talker then a typer.

dominus()
05-31-2010, 05:31 PM
yea i think it would be a shame not to have the game dynamic whereby you have an area which could be defended and owned by multiple allies, like a guild trade post, even more interesting could be having a post which grows into a small town as your trade partners or number of allies/guild members increase

what do u think?

LoveToKill
05-31-2010, 05:32 PM
Well to be honest as of now i dont see it with there map system currently i suggest you go to the media foder and catch up on the fantasy fridays lol xD

otomotopia
05-31-2010, 05:33 PM
Im quite new on the DOF front so bear with me if i suggest something which may already be part of the game...

As your castle becomes more developed i think it should be an option to build outposts for both trade and defense, this could lead to more interesting merging of the combat and trade/economy system due to the implications of having an trade outpost raided. It also increases game playability because it creates a more interesting skirmish/defend hybrid where smaller task forces could clash.

I feel that this is something which is often overlooked in games which seek to have a empire building style and would make for much more interesting economic gameplay

There could also be raids on caravan routes however this may be harder to implement due to the nature of the economy continuing while a player is offline and the combat not. although it could be interesting to have dedicated units who defend trade routes between different kingdoms ect

just a couple of suggestions
im open to any positive/ negative critism and due to being new if anyone could enlighten me on the diversity of combat scenarios, that would be great :)
I'm sorry, do you mean building/owning a separate building/zone then your homeland kingdom/castle? Or building an outpost inside of your home castle away from your walls?

dominus()
05-31-2010, 05:40 PM
Well to be honest as of now i dont see it with there map system currently i suggest you go to the media foder and catch up on the fantasy fridays lol xD

kk cheers, ive only realy been looking at this game for a week now



and i would suggest maybe a smaller seperate map for a trading post but maybe for a defensive post it could be in the main castle map but outside the city walls

it realy depends on the game perameters but in the game empire total war they introduced smaller towns within regions, so maybe having a map where u have a main castle/city and then your dedicated trade post which is on a seperate map with a road so that your trade economy becomes more volatile and also more realistic because it could potentially be attack.

Then having this all in your area of the game world.
it would also be interesting to see joint owned trade posts as i suggested earlier

Yami-Yagari
05-31-2010, 06:10 PM
I think people can already build outposts(at least orcs can), but there hasn't been any info on what purpose they have, except for defensive purposes. Would be nice though, being able to create huge trade lines with allies.

dominus()
05-31-2010, 06:29 PM
I think people can already build outposts(at least orcs can), but there hasn't been any info on what purpose they have, except for defensive purposes. Would be nice though, being able to create huge trade lines with allies.

I think it would make for a more realistic gameplay aswell as not having to besiege other players as a way of having any combat aspect, since they already have multiplayer skirmish material it could be possible to convert some of the maps to have a trade route and post which has multiple defenders, it multiplys the priorities of the gamers

LoveToKill
05-31-2010, 06:33 PM
well yami we are countin on you to find thisall out for us! hopefully we may know soon being that its allmost june 1st waitinmg for alex or someone to confirm things as is

Negthareas
05-31-2010, 06:42 PM
Players can build camps for their armies, etc.. These can have varying levels of fortification.

Perhaps the Devs could consider implimenting the ability to build camps on a trade route, forcing other players to pay to pass or fight. [similar to how players can bribe off potential attackers]

However, the idea of a guild outpost sounds more similar to the idea of a guild city, which, although that idea has been discussed very thoroughly, I am not sure if a definitive conclusion was reached on the issue.

dominus()
05-31-2010, 06:47 PM
Perhaps the Devs could consider implimenting the ability to build camps on a trade route, forcing other players to pay to pass or fight. [similar to how players can bribe off potential attackers].

i would think that could be do able in a update and trading routes could become attackable or blockable as they grew so that a hostile army can try to starve a enemy out of resources so they attack them

DarkMaster
06-01-2010, 01:32 AM
Perhaps the Devs could consider implimenting the ability to build camps on a trade route, forcing other players to pay to pass or fight. [similar to how players can bribe off potential attackers]

This I like:)

Yami-Yagari
06-01-2010, 07:05 AM
Players can build camps for their armies, etc.. These can have varying levels of fortification.

Perhaps the Devs could consider implimenting the ability to build camps on a trade route, forcing other players to pay to pass or fight. [similar to how players can bribe off potential attackers]

However, the idea of a guild outpost sounds more similar to the idea of a guild city, which, although that idea has been discussed very thoroughly, I am not sure if a definitive conclusion was reached on the issue.


Like the sound of that. Gives us another source of income (2 if they're foolish enough not to pay :p).

And guild outposts have a good ring to it. Would considerably help when in enemy territory as a base of operations, where you can train new armies and stuff.

Josh Warner
06-01-2010, 03:45 PM
You guys seem to misunderstand how the world map works, you will not be able to control pieces of it or anything like that as is. I mean I suppose it's possible to add roads or something and you can only travel on them, or it's much slower off them and put special areas on those roads that you can capture and such. However, you will not be able to just take whatever parts of the map you want or anything like that, there's going to be too many people to allow players to freely "build" on the worldmap, it'd get all cluttered as hell.

As far as capturable areas and bases etc. can't really comment on our plans for that sort of thing, I just wanted to clear up the misconceptions about the worldmap itself, people seem to think of it as just a secondary RTS map, it might look as good as one but that's not what it is.

LoveToKill
06-01-2010, 04:01 PM
i guess it would be allright to have guild tradepost or somethinglike that but no With your current map size theres noway it would support it

Yami-Yagari
06-01-2010, 04:03 PM
i guess it would be allright to have guild tradepost or somethinglike that but no With your current map size theres noway it would support it

Then perhaps the map has to be bigger. :o

LoveToKill
06-01-2010, 04:06 PM
well if they want it to work mmorts that is it will haveto be i can think of a few major problems with theres allready but i think we can all agree i suck at typeing and i figure my concerns will be brought up in beta However im dreading how long it will prolong game realese

Josh Warner
06-01-2010, 05:27 PM
Why couldn't guild cities/outposts whatever work in the same way as player cities - note this isn't how things will work, merely an idea I'm throwing around -they're "on" the map, but they don't physically show up, still have to matchmaking to fight them. Or possibly guild V guild would not be limited to matchmaking but be able to pick their targets amongst each other. Or there could be a limited number of guild cities that do show up on the map, and they can be captured so they trade hands often but they'd be on the map and you'd 'control' a certain area. Tariffs for players that try and go past, who knows, there's so many things we can do everything is very flexible here, the engine is great to work with.


As for actual guild content and stuff like that, again, I can't comment on plans, but I hope to give you some insight on how easy it is to create a simple yet competitive and entertaining system for it. I could probably come up with the basics for an entire system in a day, give me a few weeks and it'd be well balanced too. And I'm not even a design lead or anything, just a scripter. Kon and the other guys in charge of things like this are even better than I at this stuff.

LoveToKill
06-01-2010, 05:32 PM
Well Josh honestly if it where to be implimented as you say i think freesky but i think it needs to be on the map for everyone to see if implimented im not the hugest fan of sucha small map BUT if you all decide to keep it that wayy its aneasy way to keep tabs on the dominateing guild in the region id think. id go into it more depth but im nota writer lol

Josh Warner
06-01-2010, 05:41 PM
Well Josh honestly if it where to be implimented as you say i think freesky but i think it needs to be on the map for everyone to see if implimented im not the hugest fan of sucha small map BUT if you all decide to keep it that wayy its aneasy way to keep tabs on the dominateing guild in the region id think. id go into it more depth but im nota writer lol

It's not small by any means, it's actually quite massive for our purposes. Why would we want to show all of this on a map when a search tool and match making can do all of this without requiring hundreds(thousands?) of pointlessly rendered cities, and a larger map. Also, you can't really tell the scale of the map until we release a map with a legend that tells you x length = y distance. The cities/terrain is really just there to make it look alive more than to be an exact replica of the world as we see it in our heads.

It provides a simpler, more steamlined gameplay and still let us do everything we could with an absurdly large map and every single city showing up to every single player outside of aesthetics.

LoveToKill
06-01-2010, 05:44 PM
so when me and 200 guildies talk find an adversary rival guild leader and all select him on are crosshairs and take the whole what ses will be 20 minute move and just wave him down till he cant Bribe or logs off is one of the main problems the reason i want it big with the clutter and rendered cities is players have to decide who there attacking instead of scroll down and have a blast gogogogogog.

Josh Warner
06-01-2010, 06:46 PM
so when me and 200 guildies talk find an adversary rival guild leader and all select him on are crosshairs and take the whole what ses will be 20 minute move and just wave him down till he cant Bribe or logs off is one of the main problems the reason i want it big with the clutter and rendered cities is players have to decide who there attacking instead of scroll down and have a blast gogogogogog.

You very well might be able to decide who you attack in guild V guild, if that does end up being the case I don't see how it's a meaningful difference.

LoveToKill
06-01-2010, 06:49 PM
what happens when its big on small guilds or a group of guys doing it on a smaller scale to random players ofcourse they just make sureitsin the same lvl range the reason for huge mapsis for that since of distancehelp in stratagy im sure theres a way to work it out dont get me wrong and i dont know how this will work to be honest im dieing to test it out you guys may beright and i may just beto used to the oldn ways i suppose i canonly exspress my direct concerns on what little i know.

dominus()
06-01-2010, 07:07 PM
I think that the whole idea of having a couple of guild cities/trading posts which are conquerable in each region would be good and then adding guild v. guild into the mix aswell because otherwise the game world would become clogged up, having roads which these posts/cities are attached to shouldnt be too difficult to manage. but then theres the problem of how many of these places would be made because i dont think anyone has any idea of the size the guilds could become and the number of guilds.

also, what happens when everyone reaches the top level, wont the map become realy clogged up them. it could be possible to have the main game map and then a smaller map when you click on someones castle looks like a small region. from this submap you could choose to attack the city or raid the caravan route/ trade post. this i think is what i was dreaming up the other day

Josh Warner
06-01-2010, 07:27 PM
also, what happens when everyone reaches the top level, wont the map become realy clogged up them. it could be possible to have the main game map and then a smaller map when you click on someones castle looks like a small region. from this submap you could choose to attack the city or raid the caravan route/ trade post. this i think is what i was dreaming up the other day

Player cities don't show up on the map except your own right now, that's intentional, our map will never be cluttered.

dominus()
06-01-2010, 07:37 PM
Player cities don't show up on the map except your own right now, that's intentional, our map will never be cluttered.

ok cool, but what about having a trade outpost within the player region, but on a seperate map, wouldnt it be easy to do that although it would take time to create enough maps, but from what ive heard from some of the scenario team it takes around 5 hours, and thats for the castles

kateros
06-08-2010, 07:50 PM
If i understood dominus(), right he thought of something like a city that a guild could control and get certain things, like special units or someting like that.
and then other guilds would want to attack these to gain the advantage. in guild wars or such.
i think it would sound like a good idea but maybe it would make some superpowered guilds that would be inpossible to defeat.
in Global Agenda they have made something like that. on a separed map, but that would'nt make any sense in this game.
i think it is a good idea but i dont think they would make it, on the other hand it could be that i misunderstood you.