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Kire
04-26-2010, 05:05 PM
I guess LastSpartan didnt read hobbit or hurins childrens yet =). There are described dragons as one of the most cunning and evil creatures in middle earth. For cunningness you need brains =).
Tho i think dragons should be here "the wisest" creatures (at least elite/leading ones).
I would rather have dragons than elves =(.

Yami-Yagari
04-27-2010, 12:35 AM
I guess LastSpartan didnt read hobbit or hurins childrens yet =). There are described dragons as one of the most cunning and evil creatures in middle earth. For cunningness you need brains =).
Tho i think dragons should be here "the wisest" creatures (at least elite/leading ones).
I would rather have dragons than elves =(.

Would be real nice though, if The Silmarillion and Children of Hurin would be filmed.
I mean First Age was hectic and sauron was morgoth's lieutenant, so consider the power and evil he wou'ld't have. Would make an awesome movie

Negthareas
04-27-2010, 05:33 PM
Would be real nice though, if The Silmarillion and Children of Hurin would be filmed.
I mean First Age was hectic and sauron was morgoth's lieutenant, so consider the power and evil he wou'ld't have. Would make an awesome movie

Definitely. If LORTS was at all epic, that would be so much more so.

blackfang
04-28-2010, 02:26 AM
Definitely. If LORTS was at all epic, that would be so much more so.

LOTRS:) Anyways i have read the silmarillion and its quite good, not enough war and total slaughters but enough to satisfy a normal mind:)

Yami-Yagari
04-28-2010, 03:15 AM
LOTRS:) Anyways i have read the silmarillion and its quite good, not enough war and total slaughters but enough to satisfy a normal mind:)

Well, it will be epic, considering Morgoth got orcs, dragons, balrogs, werewolves and more to use against poor littly elves.

Will be hard to depict morgoth though, because whatever look they decide to use, there will be people complaining about it looking like ass.:(

Negthareas
04-28-2010, 02:53 PM
Well, it will be epic, considering Morgoth got orcs, dragons, balrogs, werewolves and more to use against poor littly elves.

Will be hard to depict morgoth though, because whatever look they decide to use, there will be people complaining about it looking like ass.:(

I agree there - although they could get away with showing him only a few times. The main prob. I think, would be with the Valar in general. It would be hard to depict them as majestic and powerful as Tolkein wrote them. This covers the issue with Morgoth/Melkor. The worse thing is if they downplay him, like the movie Eragon did to Galbatorix.

Yami-Yagari
04-28-2010, 03:26 PM
True, Valar depiction will be hard to do.
I'm not really that familliar with The Silmarillion, only the main course of events, so i don't know if they have physical forms or are more spiritual beings.

nickson104
04-28-2010, 04:10 PM
they downplay him, like they did to Galbatorix.

I dont know what you speak of? No such movie ever existed, and never shall exist. The series was not well written, but made up a large part of my life and those are cherished memories, not to be ruined by a film... A film would destroy what little dignity the books have, no film ever existed okay? :p

Negthareas
04-28-2010, 07:52 PM
I dont know what you speak of? No such movie ever existed, and never shall exist. The series was not well written, but made up a large part of my life and those are cherished memories, not to be ruined by a film... A film would destroy what little dignity the books have, no film ever existed okay? :p

?:confused: ?? - ok, whatever. I think you got my point.

The Valar have physical forms, or at least take them on many times throughout the Simarilion. It would have to be a movie series - way too much content to cover in one film.

Movie 1
- Brief on creation, Melkor becoming evil, struggle during creation, Coming of elves to Valinor, Release of Melkor and stealing of the Simarils, Feanors and the march of the Nolder, first wars against Morgoth

Movie 2
- The Siege of Angbad, The battle of Unumbered Tears, fall of Nolder

Movie 3
- The last few things - Narn i Hurin, etc. Return of the Valar, creation of Numenor, etc.

Yami-Yagari
04-29-2010, 02:55 AM
?:confused: ?? - ok, whatever. I think you got my point.

The Valar have physical forms, or at least take them on many times throughout the Simarilion. It would have to be a movie series - way too much content to cover in one film.

Movie 1
- Brief on creation, Melkor becoming evil, struggle during creation, Coming of elves to Valinor, Release of Melkor and stealing of the Simarils, Feanors and the march of the Nolder, first wars against Morgoth

Movie 2
- The Siege of Angbad, The battle of Unumbered Tears, fall of Nolder

Movie 3
- The last few things - Narn i Hurin, etc. Return of the Valar, creation of Numenor, etc.

Probably the best way to end first movie, is with ungoliath and melkor destroying the twin trees and taking the silmarillions, thus destroying the only source of light at the moment and covering the world in darkness. Gives it a nice cliffhanger :)

The book itself is actually already slpit in 4 seperate sections, so best if they'd stick to that, with the consequence of less action in some of the movies.

Negthareas
04-29-2010, 08:32 AM
hmm - maybe. Thought the first movie would be either short or long and boring.

Yami-Yagari
04-29-2010, 09:52 AM
Well comparing fellowship of the ring with the other movies, it was kinda dull to. Only real good parts were Moria and Amon Hen, and prologue.
Main focus of the first movie in a movie series it to get people's attention, so sequels, who are more action-packed, can gross more money.

Negthareas
04-29-2010, 11:24 AM
Good point. However, I am not sure how far that amount of material could be stretched without making it a complete bore, almost more documentary then movie. The next couple movies though would be completely action packed.

Yami-Yagari
04-29-2010, 11:59 AM
Some parts of the silmarillion aren't as action packed as others, but if you take the right approach, can be great to watch.

Take the creation of Arda. There really is not much to work with, except with the part of melkor trying to disrupt the harmony of the music.

I assume most people here watch anime, and watched or at least heard about Code Geass.
Sure, it has nice, fastpaced action, but another factor of what made it so great is lelocuh lamperouge.
His meticulous planning is one of the great things about the anime plus with his geass of the king, which gives him the ability to control people.
It's really fun to see him plan his moves, when he plays his pawns and when he throws them away when they'r of no more use to him.
If they were to take that part from that character and implement that in Melkor, then even something dull like the creation of Arda, which has not more action as other parts, can be enjoyable to watch.

Negthareas
04-29-2010, 03:02 PM
I had not thought of that. that might work - though we would have to be careful not to humanize Melkor - keep him scary, keep him out of sight.

Yami-Yagari
04-29-2010, 04:03 PM
I had not thought of that. that might work - though we would have to be careful not to humanize Melkor - keep him scary, keep him out of sight.

True, the less you'd see of him, the more impact he would have.

It's really hard to humanize him, considering the fact no one has a clear view on what he would look like.
There's dozens of different depictions of him, some appealing, others less. but what would Tolkien have wanted him to look like?:confused:

wills370
04-29-2010, 04:16 PM
Hmm who knows. I think thats half the beauty of it was to let the reader decide for himself. Thereby the character fitted exactly what he wanted that character to be. In essence wht the reader found most apealing i myself hate it when i read a book and then they releave the second eddition with some scrotty picture of what somone imagines the charachter to look like. As they never look as good as what you envision in your own mind. and thus are disapointing.

Kire
04-29-2010, 04:29 PM
Hmm who knows. I think thats half the beauty of it was to let the reader decide for himself. Thereby the character fitted exactly what he wanted that character to be. In essence wht the reader found most apealing i myself hate it when i read a book and then they releave the second eddition with some scrotty picture of what somone imagines the charachter to look like. As they never look as good as what you envision in your own mind. and thus are disapointing.

Well i dont mind about some ilustrations but i hate if i watch movie first and then go read book. Atm i am reading first book of lotr (i know i am little late =P) but when i try to imagine things there, only movie images come to my mind x.x, any advice how to get rid of that ?=)

Negthareas
04-29-2010, 07:53 PM
When he is fully revealed - such as when Fingolfin is killed, he needs to be, most of all - BIG, really BIG. His face should still never be seen.

Only in the final victory over him by the Valar when he is cast into the Void should his face be seen.

Yami-Yagari
04-30-2010, 01:49 AM
When he is fully revealed - such as when Fingolfin is killed, he needs to be, most of all - BIG, really BIG. His face should still never be seen.

Only in the final victory over him by the Valar when he is cast into the Void should his face be seen.


http://th08.deviantart.net/fs38/300W/i/2008/351/f/9/Fingolfin_vs_Morgoth_by_LordofIZAN.jpg
Morgoth by LordofIZAN

http://www.orderofmiddleearth.com/home/tp-images/Image/250px-Angel_Falto_-_Morgoth.jpg
Morgoth by Artist currently unknown

http://gileryd.deviantart.com/art/Morgoth-the-First-Dark-Lord-29381723 (tried to insert it, but didn't work, therefor this link)
Morgoth by gileryd

These are some depictions of several artists, who all did a nice job.
Tell me, which one do you think Morgoth should look like?

Kire
04-30-2010, 06:05 AM
Well first picture looks nice but they are all similar to movie sauron. Maybe they were similar and sauron was just little weaker (like god made his best creature (aka human) similar to him, so here could be the same). Tho i didnt read silmarilion to the end so my guess could be already answered =).

Yami-Yagari
04-30-2010, 06:18 AM
You also have this one.
http://home.comcast.net/~mithrandircq/images_new/Fingolfin-and-Morgoth.jpg

But its not really as appealing, considering its big, but looks more like a troll instead of the source of all evil of middle-earth.

Negthareas
04-30-2010, 03:14 PM
Though I do like the trend of the last one - aka - more like a force of nature. The first ones either were the basis for Sauron's appearance in LOTR, or were based off of that. Though, It would make sense for Sauron to take on a similar appearence that his great master had taken on when he [Melkor] claimed to be ruler of Middle Earth. Sauron made a similar claim.

Yami-Yagari
04-30-2010, 03:29 PM
Though I do like the trend of the last one - aka - more like a force of nature.

I'm honestly inching toward the first or second one, because from the last one i do get the evil chaotic part of Morgoth, but not really him being the dark lord, more of a subordinate.

But that really depends. Sauron had the power to change his appearance, which he frequently did during the second age to fool the elven smiths, the ringbearers and Ar-PharazŰn, king of Numenor. Though in the end he lost it when his body got destroyed by Eru's divine intervention. But if Sauron was able to change shape, and he was a maiar, shouldn't Morgoth, being one of the Valar, be able to change his appearance as well?

Negthareas
05-01-2010, 12:06 PM
I get that point - in the last one he does not look like the master of evil. I believe Melkor could change his form - when he fled to Angbad, after stealing the Simirils, I believe he became more terrifying in form [aka - became Morgoroth- no longer Melkor].

Yami-Yagari
05-01-2010, 02:34 PM
We've been more a less discussing what Morgoth should look like, but what about Melkor.

though we would have to be careful not to humanize Melkor - keep him scary, keep him out of sight.

I get the fact he needs to be scary, else he would not have such an impact on the rest of Middle-Earth.
but pre-creation he should have a more humane look. He wouldn't have been able to get lots of ainur to join him in his attempt to disrupt the harmony of the music if he had looked like a really big blue smurf with fangs?:eek:

blackfang
05-02-2010, 12:22 PM
We've been more a less discussing what Morgoth should look like, but what about Melkor.



I get the fact he needs to be scary, else he would not have such an impact on the rest of Middle-Earth.
but pre-creation he should have a more humane look. He wouldn't have been able to get lots of ainur to join him in his attempt to disrupt the harmony of the music if he had looked like a really big blue smurf with fangs?:eek:

Let him be able to shape change:D

Negthareas
05-02-2010, 08:27 PM
I agree, in the period of the music and the early creation, he should be more human, noble [angelic?] but as time goes by, more of his interior is revealed in his exterior until he finally choses to be Morgoth, not Melkor.

Yami-Yagari
05-03-2010, 05:13 AM
That will be difficult, seeing that he gets arrested and locked up, and afterwards destroys the twin trees and takes the silmarillion, thus earning the name morgoth.

Negthareas
05-03-2010, 02:20 PM
Hmm - yes - they did trust him enough to let him out again. His appearance to change was sudden, once Melkor, but forever thence Morgoroth.

Yami-Yagari
05-04-2010, 03:24 AM
Hmm - yes - they did trust him enough to let him out again. His appearance to change was sudden, once Melkor, but forever thence Morgoroth.

If you could pick an actor to play Melkor/Morgoth, who'd you pick?:confused:
That would be a tough call.

Aametherar
05-04-2010, 04:11 AM
Am I the only one who has no clue where this thread has ended up? :confused:

Yami-Yagari
05-04-2010, 04:26 AM
Am I the only one who has no clue where this thread has ended up? :confused:

Well it started with dragons, then turned into Tolkien, and now were discussing the silmarillion the movie.

Kire
05-04-2010, 05:05 PM
Nooo, not the first reply =(, it was perfectly on topic for both threads (this one and old one =P). Maybe could be doubled?=) But indeed its the very reason the thread got split x.x

Negthareas
05-04-2010, 07:42 PM
If you could pick an actor to play Melkor/Morgoth, who'd you pick?:confused:
That would be a tough call.

Hmm. Dunno. I was never a big fan of actors - if they do their job well - great! But they come and go a lot faster than they would like, I imagine.

Yami-Yagari
05-05-2010, 03:48 AM
Hmm. Dunno. I was never a big fan of actors - if they do their job well - great! But they come and go a lot faster than they would like, I imagine.

Well, they could make it a total CGI movie.
IF they use the same as in ROTK, that is.

Negthareas
05-05-2010, 10:52 AM
Well, they could make it a total CGI movie.
IF they use the same as in ROTK, that is.

CGI - means?...

ROTK - means?...

Yami-Yagari
05-05-2010, 11:03 AM
CGI - means?...

ROTK - means?...

:eek: .
wauw....

CGI = Computer Generated Imagery.

ROTK = Return Of The King.

Sorry, thought it was obvious.

Negthareas
05-05-2010, 11:12 AM
Well - I thought that ROTK was that, I just was not sure about CGI.

Yes, the CGI for the LOTR series was incredible. I didn't realize how incredible until I saw a scene in creation. There was aragorn, and there were the green walls. And that was it. [The scene where he charges towards the black gate].

Yami-Yagari
05-05-2010, 12:27 PM
Well - I thought that ROTK was that, I just was not sure about CGI.

Yes, the CGI for the LOTR series was incredible. I didn't realize how incredible until I saw a scene in creation. There was aragorn, and there were the green walls. And that was it. [The scene where he charges towards the black gate].

Yeah, liked that scene. :)
Particulary the charge of the rohirrim, and when denethor watches at the top of Minas Tirith, gazing at the millions of orc below, really nice scenes.

Aelfwine
05-17-2010, 02:13 AM
...they should do something like what they did with the Animatrix, Halo Legends and take like the main storyplots and turn those in like short animated stories.
Like:
The AinulindalŽ: The Music of the Ainur
Where it gives like a voice over commentary thing of like the Origins story, with Eru, the Ainur and the creation of Arda. Then have it progress to like their descend to Arda to the strife of Melkor and their battles and then ending with like the creation of Valinor.

Then the next one would like be a timeskip to The Elves Awakening and like tell how the stars were made, and then how the elves first awoke. And even how the elves were turned to orcs by melkor. Then abit about how the Valar made war on Melkor and locked him up in chains and then have the episode end after the elves journey to Valinor.

I mean... do you guys get the idea? I the book doesn't span like a small time frame like the Trilogy which took up like a year story wise, but this spans more than one millennia.

Of course they should also do a story on Feanor (the igniter for the story of the Silmarillion), Thingol Greymantle + Melian and the Grey Elves, you get the point...

I mean each one doesnt have to be long, maybe 1-2hrs with part2s and stuff, and they would be kickass if they stay true to the book...
Hell if this happens I would so walk into a story cosplaying an orc to buy the DVD...

I dunno who would play melkor... but if its animated... I wouldnt mind having Andy Serkis or Brian Cox voice him over.. eh?

Yami-Yagari
05-17-2010, 03:01 AM
I'd rather die than see an animated LOTR story. It has to be a movie, else it will just not be as awesome.

Aelfwine
05-17-2010, 03:27 AM
Reallly!?!? ... Have you ever seen the FIRST Lord of the Rings Movie from 1978?? That thing was like apple pudding! Sure it was old fashion animated but it was true to the story and kickass.

So I really wouldnt mind seeing an animated version about the stories in the Silmarillion.

But if they would make a movie, it would have to either be about Beren and Luthien or even better, The Children of Hurin.... but then you would be missing all the other Stories in the book =(.

Yami-Yagari
05-17-2010, 03:55 AM
Reallly!?!? ... Have you ever seen the FIRST Lord of the Rings Movie from 1978?? That thing was like apple pudding! Sure it was old fashion animated but it was true to the story and kickass.


It was kickass.. for their time. Compared to the peter jackson triliogy, i'd much rather see peter jackson direct it and pay extra to see it. If peter jackson would consider directing the silmarillions, it will be epic non stop (for most parts at least). :D

Aelfwine
05-17-2010, 04:06 AM
Still... i'd rather go for the animated.... I dont think a movie can capture all the stories in that book properly unless it was animated-cartooned. I mean the silmarillion is a book of short stories in chronological order... in essence you could make a movie from each chapter...
It was kickass.. for their time
AND THAT MOVIE is still kickass now...

Yami-Yagari
05-17-2010, 04:18 AM
Still... i'd rather go for the animated.... I dont think a movie can capture all the stories in that book properly unless it was animated-cartooned. I mean the silmarillion is a book of short stories in chronological order... in essence you could make a movie from each chapter...

AND THAT MOVIE is still kickass now...

Did you not see LOTR triliogy? :confused:

It changed my life! I've seen every movie at least 8 times by now, and it stilll is epic.(maybe not Fellowship of the Rings, but let's face it, other 2 were better)

The Two Towers and Return of the King are great. There are points in both movies that are just amazingly breathtaking. Battle for Helms Deep, Siege of Minas Tirith, The Charge of the Rohirrim, all those scenes capture the books as well as can get IMO.

And about the animated movie from 1978, have to agree its a good movie. But still if you'd had to choose between both, i'd still take the triliogy above that movie.

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/nostalgia-critic/9754-lotr

You should watch it. You'd probably like this review as i did.

Aelfwine
05-17-2010, 04:42 AM
Yes yes, the Peter Jackson movies were graphicly epic... but still have you read the silmarillion book?

Yami-Yagari
05-17-2010, 04:59 AM
Yes yes, the Peter Jackson movies were graphicly epic... but still have you read the silmarillion book?

No unfortunately, but i know most about the big plot surrounding it. Never got the chance to read it, and never got to buying one :(

Aelfwine
05-17-2010, 05:20 AM
There we go then... I was wondering why you'd like a live action film for it... but see the thing is the Silmarillion isnt what you would call a story book. Basically its a summary of short stories, with each chapter being one of those stories... Basically a history book of Middle Earth from before the count of time to the First-Third Age (The last year of the Third Age is the Trilogy). All of which just spans barely 400 pages.

It doesnt really have enough depth to warrant a full blown film, which is why I sudgest doing something like in animatrix/ halo legends, you know? Different types of animation for the stories? Not to mention the book describes battles that make battles in the book sound like a tea party... really 1 whole battle raging accross the continent of Beleriand, which is just as big, if not bigger than Arnor + Gondor put together.

And like I said, if they do make a movie... How will they make the sandwich?
The top bread will have to be about Feanor and the Simarils but then after his part comes the multitude of stories that span well over thousands of years to the bottom of the bread which will be the war of the wrath when the simarils are recovered, then lost. But then what happens to the after stories, like the Story of Numenor, or the establisment of Arnor + Gondor... and then the Final Battle when the ring gets cut off?

I mean you would lose alot of story=\

Negthareas
05-17-2010, 09:16 AM
Righ, but there are several parts that could be one movie in themselves, like the children of Hurin.

I think that the cartoon ones, while they were true to the books, really suffered - they were boring to watch [to me when I was a kid]. they just seemed, well, kind of wierd, not excitingly so. The Hobbit was ok however.

Aelfwine
05-17-2010, 06:07 PM
Righ, but there are several parts that could be one movie in themselves, like the children of Hurin.

I think that the cartoon ones, while they were true to the books, really suffered - they were boring to watch [to me when I was a kid]. they just seemed, well, kind of wierd, not excitingly so. The Hobbit was ok however.

SEeeeee Negthareas sees where im going, and ya, the children of hurin would have the story line for a kickass movie... it has drama, suspense, action, messed up love pairings, and dragon fighting. OH! and midget dwarves!

Negthareas
05-17-2010, 07:21 PM
Also, the fall of Gondalin might factor into it as well - kind of a side story, since Hurin visited it...

It would make even more sense if they made it a movie of the cousins - Turin, son of hurin, and then the one that goes to Gondalin [I forgot his name, the one that was visited by Ulmo near the sea, and got an invisible cloak, and had the sole surviving elf [from a ship that tried to get to Valinor to ask for aid] guide him to Gondalin.

That would give it a little more variety. Bounce back and forth between the two stories - since they do intersect at the point where Blacksword [Turin] is following the orc army that sacked Naragothand - I know that is messed up, but you know what I mean]

SPARROW94
05-17-2010, 07:22 PM
SEeeeee Negthareas sees where im going, and ya, the children of hurin would have the story line for a kickass movie... it has drama, suspense, action, messed up love pairings, and dragon fighting. OH! and midget dwarves!

and make one sick ass opening battle scene :cool:

Negthareas
05-17-2010, 07:35 PM
That is true, we could open up with the battle of Unumbered Tears

SPARROW94
05-17-2010, 08:04 PM
That is true, we could open up with the battle of Unumbered Tears

Yesss <3. Oh fo sho!

Aelfwine
05-17-2010, 08:28 PM
hmm not a bad idea, there hasnt been much movies out that that open up from an epic battle scene.... then again thats also the part where fingolfin died... sooo >_> I dunno...

Yami-Yagari
05-18-2010, 03:33 AM
hmm not a bad idea, there hasnt been much movies out that that open up from an epic battle scene.... then again thats also the part where fingolfin died... sooo >_> I dunno...

Would be a nice idea, but without any suspense build up prior to it, it kind of takes the epic out of it.

blackfang
05-18-2010, 10:30 AM
Would be a nice idea, but without any suspense build up prior to it, it kind of takes the epic out of it.

what about the suspens to build up to it is endless insulting from the generals in the peace tent? That should make it epic:rolleyes:

The Witch King of Angmar
05-18-2010, 06:50 PM
Honestly, in a way, I don't think that the movie would do the book much justice. Personally, I just like picturing what is going on in my head while I read. :D

blackfang
05-19-2010, 06:14 AM
Honestly, in a way, I don't think that the movie would do the book much justice. Personally, I just like picturing what is going on in my head while I read. :D

yeah the imagination running wild with possibilities are fun:rolleyes:

Negthareas
05-19-2010, 03:50 PM
True - while the LOTR trilogy was fantastic, it was not quite what I had pictured in my mind from the books. Now I can't picture anything else. IF there is a detriment to epic films this is it.