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Alex Walz
04-23-2010, 06:16 PM
FANTASY FRIDAY XXIII
Unique Battalion Formations Part I

Welcome back! Today we'll be taking a first glimpse into some of Dawn of Fantasy's many unique/specialized unit formations. I'll cut to the chase here, but for more information on battalions, check out the Standard Battalions FF (http://www.reverieworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1329). Each race has a couple standard formations, applicable to all militant battalions, and each orc and human military unit has a specialized, unique formation that significantly boosts their strengths and encourages a new degree of micromanagement on the battlefield. For information on these, check out the just-published Developer Diary 3: Unique Formations & Micromanagement (http://blog.reverieworld.com/entries.php?id=4).

Without further ado, we'll start with showing you the unique formations of six units for Part I. Enjoy!

http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff23/schiltronthumb.jpg (http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff23/schiltron.jpg)
<font size="-2">Halberdiers in Schiltron formation guarding the crossroad. Click to Enlarge.</font>

Halberdier - Schiltron Formation
A nearly immobile defensive melee fighting formation. When in this formation, Halberdiers are vulnerable to ranged attacks but unbreakable against melee and mounted attacks.

Bonus:
+30% Crush Armor
+30% Hack Armor
+40% Defense Rating
+40% Damage
+100% Damage to Charging Cavalry

Penalty:
-80% Speed
-30% Pierce Armor
-Can't Run

Stance:
-Stand-Ground Stance

http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff23/wargthumb.jpg (http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff23/warg.jpg)
<font size="-2">Mounted Impalers charging into battle using the Serpent Formation. Click to Enlarge.</font>

Mounted Orc - Serpent Formation
When in this formation, Beastriding Orcs become nearly invulnerable while running, and take almost no damage when trampling units. This is the ideal formation for charging large enemy armies or for escaping through enemy ranks untouched.

Bonus:
+40% Speed
+30% Pierce Armor
-80% Collision Damage to the Mount

Penalty:
-Constant Fatigue drain of two per second in addition to the normal drain rate.

Special:
-When Fatigue reaches 25 or lower, the battalion will automatically switch back into Mob Formation.
-Requires 60 Fatigue to activate Serpent Formation.

Stance:
-Aggressive Stance

http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff23/cavalierthumb.jpg (http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff23/cavalier.jpg)
<font size="-2">Cavaliers assembled in the Diamond Formation, ready to charge. Click to Enlarge.</font>

Cavalier - Diamond Formation
As an extension of the standard Wedge formation, the Diamond formation is designed to be used when charging against infantry units. However, due to a tighter positioning of units, this formation is more vulnerable to ranged attacks and doesn't cover as much space unless used in large numbers.

Bonus:
-80% Collision Damage to Cavalier
+100% Impact Damage to charged units

Penalty:
-30% Pierce Armor
-30% Defense Rating

Stance:
-Aggressive Stance

http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff23/slayerthumb.jpg (http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff23/slayer.jpg)
<font size="-2">Slayers in the Hive Formation protect the gate to Ral Nistro by charging oncoming units trying to cross the bridge. Click to Enlarge.</font>

Slayer - Hive Formation
A fast offensive formation used for charging enemy units. The Hive Formation offers a small boost to all categories and a great increase to mobility. This formation is most useful when breaking through a gatehouse or enemy walls, or attempting to flank enemy positions. With their significant speed increase, Slayers also become an effective cavalry counter.

Bonus:
+20% Pierce Armor
+20% Crush Armor
+20% Hack Armor
+20% Damage
+50% Speed

Penalty:
-Constant Fatigue drain of two per second in addition to the normal drain rate.

Special:
-When Fatigue reaches 25 or lower, the battalion will automatically switch back into Mob Formation.
-Requires 60 Fatigue to activate Hive Formation.

Stance:
-Aggressive Stance

http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff23/knightthumb.jpg (http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff23/knight.jpg)
<font size="-2">Human Foot Knights make use of the Anvil Formation to form a protective wall around their King. Click to Enlarge.</font>

Foot Knight - Anvil Formation
A rectanguler formation designed to quickly fight off an attacking melee force from all sides or to escort a VIP unit safely through a battle field. However, a formation this complex to organize slows down the already slow Foot Knights, making it a slow formation when on the attack.

Bonus:
+30% Defense Rating
+30% Attack Rating
+30% Damage

Penalty:
-30% Speed

Stance:
-Defensive Stance

http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff23/berserkerthumb.jpg (http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff23/berserker.jpg)
<font size="-2">Berserkers use the Turtle Formation (a little squished due to the large battalion size and the restrictive area of the keep) to spread out and guard their keep against an oncoming elven army. Click to Enlarge.</font>

Berserker - Turtle Formation
This unique formation temporarily changes the offensive-oriented Berserker units into Defensive units, with greatly increased Armor. Although only moderately good against ranged attacks when in this formation, Berserkers will be able to hold off significantly larger melee forces.

Bonus:
+60% Crush Armor
+60% Hack Armor
-20% Pierce Armor
+60% Defense Rating

Penalty:
-80% Walk Speed
-Can't Run
-Constant Fatigue drain of two per second in addition to the normal drain rate.

Special:
-When Fatigue reaches 25 or lower, the battalion will automatically switch back into Mob Formation.
-Requires 60 Fatigue to activate Turtle Formation.

Stance:
-Stand-Ground Stance

Swift sword
04-23-2010, 06:27 PM
Wow, loooks pretty nice so far. Going to look more indepth at them now, but it's nice to get more info on formations. I didn't feel like we'd had much yet ;)

GPS51
04-23-2010, 06:28 PM
Ok the perfunctory questions ;) So do all these special formations and the normal formations have one key application? IE. I punch the key d and my troop goes into defensive formation. Most importantly on the LOVELY berserker screenshot what does the flask button stand for and what does maximum skill mean? Is there a limit for skillage points? I'd love to see 100 lvl berserkers.

Alex Walz
04-23-2010, 06:38 PM
Thanks. :)

The flask is a potion - your berserkers can heal themselves in exchange for Fatigue. The maximum skill level is 10, so those Berserks are capped off. Actually, the spacing is ambiguous but read it as XP: Maximum, Skill: 19. You have maximum experience and 19 unspent skill points.

And no formation hotkeys yet. We'll see later down the road with the new unit GUI.

GPS51
04-23-2010, 06:51 PM
Well I just wanted to make sure the hotkeys work with the formations PREFERABLY 1 key hotkeys for formations. I hate searching for the ctrl or shift keys whilst holding down another.

Henry Martin
04-23-2010, 07:01 PM
I have never been one to use the different battle formations in RTSs. I might just have to try them out in this RTS.

GPS51
04-23-2010, 07:58 PM
Yeah the most i've used them is in a campaign maps but I'm thinking with those kinds of bonuses stnd. formations may get you killed.

Alex Walz
04-23-2010, 08:52 PM
Not necessarily. The unique formations are only good in select situations and carry significant penalties. Cavalry diamond charges will do some damage but just set your archers on them and they'll be out in no time. Likewise, keep your distance from the Schiltron and Anvil units and you can shoot them off one by one. The orc uniques are more versatile but aren't likely to last more than a minute and that quick fatigue drain will prohibit orc players from using other powers like Heal and Howl.

Yami-Yagari
04-24-2010, 12:02 AM
Itīs probably just me, but the orcish formations seem to have no disadvantages, except for a faster fatigue drain.

DarkMaster
04-24-2010, 01:48 AM
What can I say? Everything sounds fantastic and I'm even more hyped for this game than ever!:cool:

rolzuc
04-24-2010, 02:06 AM
Great Fantasy Friday as usual :P The fact we reached number 23 says a lot about the variety of the game. Just WOW. And i have the feeling we just scratched the surface til now. Still i wonder if we could have some sort of trailer soon since the last trailer was quite a while ago, when the new DoF Homepage opened. Is there any chance for that? :rolleyes:

Darvin
04-24-2010, 02:11 AM
Mechanical question:

How long does it take to assemble into formation? Are there any penalties while you are changing formations?

Yami-Yagari
04-24-2010, 04:04 AM
like how you changed the formation setting from the orcs. switching between mob and battle formation would get boring at some time, plus other races have multiple formations too

nickson104
04-24-2010, 06:13 AM
Looks GREAT :) Thanks for this, it has swung me back in favour of the orcs i think... :)

Yami-Yagari
04-24-2010, 06:18 AM
Mechanical question:

How long does it take to assemble into formation? Are there any penalties while you are changing formations?

Will probably be instantenious. if switching between formations takes to long, like say getting charged by cavalry, thereīs no point in switching because theyīl be dead before they could assemble

Andy Joslin
04-24-2010, 07:32 AM
Mechanical question:

How long does it take to assemble into formation? Are there any penalties while you are changing formations?
Elven formations take a long time to switch, and elven units are immobile and useless while switching.

Men formations take no time to switch, however after switching formations there is a cooldown that does not let you switch again for a little while.

Orc formations have huge fatigue costs and fatigue drains, so while they give big bonuses they also don't last long and cannot be switched often.

Alex Walz
04-24-2010, 09:00 AM
Well, while orc and men formations start immediately when called, the slower formations take a while as the units move at the speed of the formation when assembling, so it's best to give them some warning.

Kire
04-24-2010, 09:35 AM
Even more formations =O. The changing movement formation is good but dont like those bonuses x.x, they are illogical - example: now if i stand in circle with others than we get stronger armour or my weapons could cut trough stronger armors that couldnt do so before.
They sounds more like ritual dancing and then higher force grant them some powers.

Yami-Yagari
04-24-2010, 11:31 AM
I don't really get the turtle formation :confused:. I mean it doesn't really resemble a turtle or any other turtle formation. but the bonuses are nice, rather imbalanced, but nice.

Alex Walz
04-24-2010, 11:50 AM
It's more of a turtle shell outline, just a little squished in that keep.

Yami-Yagari
04-24-2010, 12:08 PM
http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff23/warg.jpg
kinda looks more like a moon crescent then a serpent, sorry for nitpicking

nickson104
04-24-2010, 01:57 PM
http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff23/warg.jpg
kinda looks more like a moon crescent then a serpent, sorry for nitpicking

A crescent or arc it certainly does resemble, but it doesnt sound as good as serpent formation does it? :) :p

Josh Warner
04-24-2010, 02:20 PM
Itīs probably just me, but the orcish formations seem to have no disadvantages, except for a faster fatigue drain.

Preliminary testing indicates they're a little on the weak side because of that fatigue drain. In prolonged combat, mainly sieges, they're at a pretty big overall disadvantage. In open field battles they're pretty deadly, but what's stopping your opponent from simply retreating if you decide to advance using those special formations.

It's far more complex than it looks at first glance the balancing act that the orcs and elves undergo. Men are kept simpler, and more versatile but they don't get quite the power boost that elves and orcs get. While elves need to plan their stances ahead of time through proper scouting and require exceptional planning and timing to change stances in combat without wasting the battalion. And orcs of course are the hardest yet to fully utilize, you need to move into the proper formation for the task at hand, and then manage that fatigue. As alex pointed out - formation fatigue drain also means you can't use your other powerful abilities as often, if at all. This won't be as much of an issue with leveled battalions however.

Mechanical question:

How long does it take to assemble into formation? Are there any penalties while you are changing formations?

Right now things are in flux and subject to change, but you might be seeing a short weakened period with switching, or a fatigue cost on top of the minimum required amount. I know off the top of my head right now the elves have a few seconds after exiting their meditation before the bonuses apply. Would have to check the other races.

blackfang
04-24-2010, 03:01 PM
can't wait to smash some formations:D

Darathor
04-24-2010, 04:21 PM
Those formations look awesome and really look like they will add much more depth to the gameplay and let the player maybe pull off some awesome stunts occasionally.

Very good showcase, intriguing and it feeds my eternal hunger for all things DoF.:D

Aametherar
04-25-2010, 04:57 AM
~Aametherar chomps on his BBQ'd elf sticks~

Grog say good good! Ork Krush, Ork Kill!

The Witch King of Angmar
04-25-2010, 11:51 AM
COOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !! I love the unique formations, it adds so much to the game-play! Awesome job!

Negthareas
04-27-2010, 05:24 PM
I really like the formations, though it would be nice if they were a little more relevant to the actual stances of the units involved. Once again, men have proved their normality, while orcs and elves need more microing.

blackfang
04-28-2010, 02:30 AM
I really like the formations, though it would be nice if they were a little more relevant to the actual stances of the units involved. Once again, men have proved their normality, while orcs and elves need more microing.

Just to correct that, orcs are not microing they are macroing. Give one the order and you can give them all the very same order, it doesnt matter because they know very little about tactics. They use a tactic commonly known as horde. Which means they rather want to fight one on one inside a huge battle then formation vs formations. So basically put give orcs the charge order and let them do the rest, they are smart enough to know that running away will earn you another pike with a head on when you take over the town:D

Yami-Yagari
04-28-2010, 03:18 AM
So basically put give orcs the charge order and let them do the rest, they are smart enough to know that running away will earn you another pike with a head on when you take over the town:D

But charging head long into enemies front will definitely earn you cavalry charge in your rear or flanks

nickson104
04-28-2010, 10:45 AM
But charging head long into enemies front will definitely earn you cavalry charge in your rear or flanks

Thats why we have our impalers there? :) Or our wargs to intercept them? :) Humans may have the best cavalry, but im sure wargs could put a pretty nice dent in them...

Question for the devs: When a unit is mounted on a mount, do the mount and the unit merge into one unit or do they still act as two units? E.g as the wargs charge they are able to bite at enemy units while the orc on its back slashes away? Or is it the more common, the warg is transport, the orc does the attack...

Kire
04-28-2010, 01:55 PM
Question for the devs: When a unit is mounted on a mount, do the mount and the unit merge into one unit or do they still act as two units? E.g as the wargs charge they are able to bite at enemy units while the orc on its back slashes away? Or is it the more common, the warg is transport, the orc does the attack...

It would be nice if you would see Mounted knight without horse because killed or horse running blindly around because knight got killed =).

GPS51
04-28-2010, 01:58 PM
I've often thought that in a large battle there would be a considerable amount of riderless horses careening about. Creating hazards for all troops. Never have seen it except in mount and blade. I think it would add a lot of realism though.

nickson104
04-28-2010, 02:15 PM
I've often thought that in a large battle there would be a considerable amount of riderless horses careening about. Creating hazards for all troops. Never have seen it except in mount and blade. I think it would add a lot of realism though.

Yeah that was fun, especially when you impale them with your lance simply because they were in your way... :) :p

GPS51
04-28-2010, 02:45 PM
yeah or when you looked the other way and still nailed some poor soul. The modding for the game was incredible.

Negthareas
04-28-2010, 03:19 PM
These things would be great if implemented. I think the rider and the mount should be seperate units with separate attacks. Think: a mounted archer can shoot and run guys over.

Yami-Yagari
04-28-2010, 03:29 PM
These things would be great if implemented. I think the rider and the mount should be seperate units with separate attacks. Think: a mounted archer can shoot and run guys over.

Yes, would be nice for orc impalers or slayers to be able to dismount when their warg mounts die.
Don't know if that could work for other races, since their cavalry already start merged together, while wargs are bred off the side.

nickson104
04-28-2010, 04:12 PM
Yes, would be nice for orc impalers or slayers to be able to dismount when their warg mounts die.
Don't know if that could work for other races, since their cavalry already start merged together, while wargs are bred off the side.

Not always, E.G the elves can create unicorns the same as orcs create wargs. They can be riderless and have their own attack stats...
As for human horses, im sure they could kick fine, and they would have some good trample damage and would be armoured unlike unicorns/wargs. Balanced...

Yami-Yagari
04-29-2010, 02:50 AM
As for human horses, im sure they could kick fine, and they would have some good trample damage and would be armoured unlike unicorns/wargs. Balanced...

Yes, but horses aren't really as effective without riders, unlike wargs and unicorns. it might just run away instead of charge at people with no rider present.

blackfang
04-29-2010, 05:12 AM
Yes, but horses aren't really as effective without riders, unlike wargs and unicorns. it might just run away instead of charge at people with no rider present.

Give the horses a nice set of fangs an a skill to suck blood like vampires, that should improve them (fantasy is where everything is possible):D

Yami-Yagari
04-29-2010, 07:43 AM
Give the horses a nice set of fangs an a skill to suck blood like vampires, that should improve them (fantasy is where everything is possible):D

Or give it wings and strap explosives to it, and you get kamikaze horsies :eek:

nickson104
04-29-2010, 10:50 AM
Or give it wings and strap explosives to it, and you get kamikaze horsies :eek:

Kamikaze pegasus!!! :eek: Gives a whole new meaning to 'Dive Bomb' :) But it will need the constant shouts of 'DO A BARREL ROLL!' :D

Yami-Yagari
04-29-2010, 12:05 PM
You could also take that concept, and turn it into a new cavalry unit.

A horse with a cart full with explosives, that you charge into the bulk of the enemy army, and detonate :eek:.

Negthareas
04-29-2010, 03:03 PM
Hmm - a dwarf unit? For some reason, dwarves always end up being the ones with gunpowder.

Yami-Yagari
04-29-2010, 03:41 PM
Hmm - a dwarf unit? For some reason, dwarves always end up being the ones with gunpowder.

Would give dwarves the edge, seeing as they hardly use cavalry, are short and slow and their archers aren't as nearly as efficient as other races.

wills370
04-29-2010, 04:20 PM
I think the only way to balance them is in combat after combat scenario. Hmm it will be intrestingas already stated how the terrain can effect so much so i think that this game will be alot more about getting favourable ground and enabling you to use your tactics aswell as just attacking correctly then games previosuly or even devs thought.

GPS51
04-29-2010, 07:10 PM
Dwarves should have some kind of formation like stone formation except for arrow defense which will protect them from arrow fire.

LoveToKill
04-29-2010, 09:11 PM
i have to say the more i learnofthis game the more interested i become ive enjoyed seeing these fantasy fridays and keep them comeing!

Khan kreiger
06-18-2010, 07:04 AM
i love the wargs formation...better to run down people:p