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kateros
04-03-2010, 05:56 PM
I know that there is a thread that talked about this a little, but is it possible to build defenses inside the city.
Like if u are under attack and the enemy has a lot of cavalry u could build like spikes that would stop a charge. Iím pretty sure they did something like that in the old days.
And they also made emergency defenses just outside the city too slow any attacking force. Like burn houses so that they could not hide behind or in them.
If I where and general under attack and the enemy was inside my walls with a lot of cavalry, and my soldiers was temporarily holding them back. I would strengthen my defense.
Like I saw them talking about a map with reinforcements, then I would try to hold out until they came.
Its not like their would be defenses like that all the time, but if they included research where u would get better scouts, to spot advancing enemy forces. That would be nice.
Although I donít think it would come in the original but in an expansion pack maybe.:D :D :D

Joseph Visscher
04-03-2010, 09:03 PM
Humans and Elves have multiple layers of walls to their strongholds, these inner wall layers can be upgraded and more military units can be added on these walls just like you can with the outer layer.

Most Orc Strongholds only have 1 layer of walls which do have a few upgrades aswell, but the thing with the Orcs is they will still have plenty of fierce warriors inside waiting to fight among their huts, tents and buildings.

Commonly when I am being besieged ( and I am playing as Men) I bring all of my calvary to my inner keep, I will pull back my soldiers into the inner layers and abandon the outer layer to the enemy.
The enemy archers will then enter my first stronghold layer, the enemies will leave my first layer of walls and attempt to use the battering ram on my second gate of my keep, before they get the battering ram to the second gate I open the gates and charge through my enemy with my calvary closing the gates behind them.

I push the cavalry through trying to get out of the stronghold destroying all enemy siege equipment along the way, really targeting the battering rams mostly (Siege Towers and Treants do not fit through first gate and therefore can not attach to second layer of walls; long range siege equipment like Trebuchets require lots of stone and most times run out.). This is similar to lord of the rings battle of helms deep type of tactic, but its a real tactic, I have my inner keep intact and my enemy has no way of breaking down my gate, and if he even comes close to my gatehouse, I drop boiling oil on them all. ;)

With no battering rams, my enemies must retreat from my stronghold back into their camp, at this point I can retake my outer layers and attempt to rebuild my gates in the outer layer and loot the dead enemies for resources,,, siege starts all over again. :D :p

kateros
04-04-2010, 04:26 AM
I just thought about that if u have time, and resources u could make a small layer of palisades just outside the wall that the enemy soldiers would have too destroy before bringing in siege towers.
I don’t know if u have seen the movie Troy (I’m not saying that it is realistic) they make quick extra defenses. To help them defend the beach.
And nice tactic.

welshie
04-04-2010, 10:33 AM
i ubderstand what your saying and its a good idea.

Bascily he means if you get warning msg that an armys going to attack you in a month (game time) then in that month you add an extra layer of cheap wall just before your nice expensive ones like wooden stakes to help slow down infantry or prevent seige towers gaining direct access to that strech of wall and that needs to be removed before carrying on. I like the idea of this but for me it would make defending so much easier and will overpower archers in defences, no matter what the dammage ratio, thus making them a preety pointless unit in open warfare.

blackfang
04-04-2010, 11:11 AM
You could try my tactic, i am one of those who excel at defending at some points. For instance the tactic i always use on medieval 2 total war i have a lot of archers and stuff on the outer walls and all my melee units and riders are inside the second wall. What i do is that i pound the enemy heavily with a lot of arrow rains (i got one or two melee infantry platoons at the outer wall aswell) then i play the retreat, and just to make sure my archers live to fire another hundred volleys i sacrifice two melee platoons, and then i got all i need to kill the enemy. Their soldiers already suffer some heavy causalities and moral losses, and even if they are superior to me in numbers i always manage to take them down with this tactic. Hell i have even managed to take down 4 opponents with me and another one, i used this tactic while the other one sacrificed everything at the outer walls. I had elite units waiting inside the last walls and just barely managed to kill them all off but it really worked wonders:D So i will ALWAYS use more walls for every wall i have i gotta sacrifice a bunch of melee soldiers for the sake of killing more enemies... TRY IT (you may not get it perfectly at once but just wait and see perhaps you manage to pull it off once or twice after practicing some time:D )

Negthareas
04-04-2010, 05:30 PM
However, I think it might work if the defender was allowed to place some defenses, like a short row of abatis, or [pit traps - which we know orcs have] etc anywhere on their City RTS map - anytime they want. This would make sense, especially if there was a limit to how many of these "petty" defenses could be constructed or maintained.

wills370
04-05-2010, 02:39 PM
Hmm i really like the ideas but it depends how expansive the wall system is in this. if as described you can only build walls on set plots and ion set designs then it may not be possible? (dev please tell me if this is so :P) but aside from that all thoose tactics would work. I would say mine but im going to leave that for when im playing it for real, and then i will probably comment. But it does do wonders :D

blackfang
04-05-2010, 11:51 PM
we should make tactics guide:D However i am not sure how to explain mine perfectly but i could do so using M2tw its just too bad i don't have it anymore:( Well i guess rise and fall can play that role too but it won't work there as there is no need for tactics just attack with all you got:rolleyes:

welshie
04-06-2010, 03:18 AM
You cant really start making up tacs now, not untill you get the gyst of the game. This game looks to me different from other RTS' so i cannot really work a tac on AoE3, BFME2 ect.. and expect them to work here, thats far too easy.

Negthareas
04-06-2010, 11:06 AM
You cant really start making up tacs now, not untill you get the gyst of the game. This game looks to me different from other RTS' so i cannot really work a tac on AoE3, BFME2 ect.. and expect them to work here, thats far too easy.

Though I am sure that many of those tactics will still apply. While some are created to take advantage of elements within those particular games, others are functional and useful in them because they are in real life. It is this group of tactics that will be applicable in DoF. I think I might make a list of them. I like the sound of it : "Sound Strategies for the Conquest of Mythador, by Negthareas".

blackfang
04-06-2010, 11:16 AM
Though I am sure that many of those tactics will still apply. While some are created to take advantage of elements within those particular games, others are functional and useful in them because they are in real life. It is this group of tactics that will be applicable in DoF. I think I might make a list of them. I like the sound of it : "Sound Strategies for the Conquest of Mythador, by Negthareas Co Starring Blackfang".

more like it:D

welshie
04-06-2010, 12:45 PM
wow, black didnt realise u were content with being a sidekick :D

Negthareas
04-06-2010, 07:38 PM
Seriously though Blackfang, maybe that is something we could develop. It would add a unique aspect to the forum, since, after the game comes out, the forum will become a little more - "how do I do this or that?" instead of conversation on the game itself. Projects like this would focus attention and continue to give this website a purpose and game-centered perspective.

Henry Martin
04-06-2010, 09:03 PM
I think the total war series would be hard to use as reference for tatics for this game. Total war takes into consideration what position your is being attacked(each causing different amount of damage), DOF doesn't. For instance, in total war, flanking enemy units with horses and charging back or side will cause masive damage(DOF dosen't have this). The total war series tries to use real tactics in their games. Also in total war you are trying to route the enemy(mostly) and I don't know if enemies will route on a large scale like that in DOF.

I believe DOF will reflect AOE style, but will some total war.

I do like the idea of setting up a tactics guide.

GPS51
04-06-2010, 09:07 PM
Routing sure makes it easier to run enemies down tho :cool:

Konstantin Fomenko
04-06-2010, 10:48 PM
Total war takes into consideration what position your is being attacked(each causing different amount of damage), DOF doesn't.
The nature of continuous MMORTS gameplay with your battalions gaining experience, levels and skills - makes some Total War tactics too punishing to be applied in DoF. We believe that player would hate to see their level 10 archer battalion (that you`ve been upgrading and fighting with for the past couple of days) get completely owned by a rear charge.

Routing sure makes it easier to run enemies down tho Routing we are keeping - but in DoF the loosing player will actually be happy to see his battalions route. In fact you`ll want to improve routing of your units by upgrading their Intelligence skill. Going back to the above example - if Cavalry battalion does take our most of your level 10 archer battalion, you want them to run away to fight another day...

GPS51
04-06-2010, 10:52 PM
Hmm sounds like some good points here. On another note...will I be able to fight 3 or 4 battles a day or will 1-2 be the max due to healing constraints etc?

blackfang
04-06-2010, 11:56 PM
wow, black didnt realise u were content with being a sidekick :D

Well its not like i want any responsibilities if i do anything, blame it on him if it goes wrong. However i want the honor of helping:D

I think the total war series would be hard to use as reference for tatics for this game. Total war takes into consideration what position your is being attacked(each causing different amount of damage), DOF doesn't. For instance, in total war, flanking enemy units with horses and charging back or side will cause masive damage(DOF dosen't have this). The total war series tries to use real tactics in their games. Also in total war you are trying to route the enemy(mostly) and I don't know if enemies will route on a large scale like that in DOF.

I believe DOF will reflect AOE style, but will some total war.

I do like the idea of setting up a tactics guide.

You don't always focus on getting the enemy to rout... There really is no use getting large armies to rout if you play campaign, thats where you want to focus on killing all.

Seriously though Blackfang, maybe that is something we could develop. It would add a unique aspect to the forum, since, after the game comes out, the forum will become a little more - "how do I do this or that?" instead of conversation on the game itself. Projects like this would focus attention and continue to give this website a purpose and game-centered perspective.

Sure thing, i am with ya:)

Henry Martin
04-07-2010, 09:09 AM
It depends on the situation you are in. Most of the time you won't kill all of the enemy units. Also if you are at a disadvantage with unit size, you wont try to kill all of the enemies, as you will worry more on routing them(did this when I was out numbered).

blackfang
04-07-2010, 10:02 AM
It depends on the situation you are in. Most of the time you won't kill all of the enemy units. Also if you are at a disadvantage with unit size, you wont try to kill all of the enemies, as you will worry more on routing them(did this when I was out numbered).

If i loose in numbers i try many different ways. Hopefully to kill most units i don't really care if they rout normally but i care if they rout on campaign map because then they will haunt me, that is no fun so i try killing off all i can i don't care if i loose the army... The only places where i will allow routing is in city/village battles and multiplayer, else i will annihilate the enemy no MATTER THE COST don't let the enemy rise again (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVWGLQdoxDc) Because if i have to annihilate my own army to kill them all then so be it, Total slaughter or Total assimilation is my way:D

Puppeteer
04-09-2010, 11:33 AM
Okay, I've split the topic - let's try and keep it relevant, shall we? :P

otomotopia
04-10-2010, 07:46 AM
If i loose in numbers i try many different ways. Hopefully to kill most units i don't really care if they rout normally but i care if they rout on campaign map because then they will haunt me, that is no fun so i try killing off all i can i don't care if i loose the army... The only places where i will allow routing is in city/village battles and multiplayer, else i will annihilate the enemy no MATTER THE COST don't let the enemy rise again (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVWGLQdoxDc) Because if i have to annihilate my own army to kill them all then so be it, Total slaughter or Total assimilation is my way:D


Ironically, you don't loose all your progress MMORTS mode after being beaten. So you don't "Start Over" after loosing a battle.

Honestly, I find that to be a good idea, though a bit (Dare I say?) Carebearish. The degree of loss will obviously need to be fine tuned during testing, but that will comes with time.

I can't wait to see the tactics we develop for strategic placement of anti-seige equipment. Should be interesting.