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Alex Walz
02-19-2010, 12:45 PM
FANTASY FRIDAY XIV
Human Archers

Welcome back to another Fantasy Friday! This week we'll be looking at the human archer units: the Archer and the Crossbowman. These units are fundamental for a balanced attack and detrimental for a defense.

Enjoy!

The Human Archer

Description:
A basic, ranged unit essential for stronghold defense. Great against distant monsters, archers, and light infantry. Weak against cavalry and melee combat. <img src="http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff14/archericon.png" align="right">Archers are trained in battalions from the Archery Range and follow your infantry into battle, defending from a distance.

Initial Statistics:
Health: 120
Stamina: 100
Damage: 55
Accuracy: 300
Defense: 20
Armor: -
View/LOS: 660
Range: 650
Speed: 49
Charge: 80

Unique Abilities:
Flaming Arrows – When toggled, the archers' arrows will become enflamed, causing increased damage and a chance at starting a fire, but will cause decreased accuracy and fire rate.

The Human Crossbowman

Description:
A dual ranged and melee unit. Crossbowmen can switch between crossbows and swords, allowing them to play either card depending on what the battle calls for. Crossbowmen are capable of wielding great damage to enemy beasts, and come second only to the great Elven archers. <img src="http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff14/crossbowmanicon.png" align="right">Great in both ranged and melee situations. Mediocre against archers and infantry, weak against cavalry. Crossbowmen have less overall range and accuracy than archers, but wield greater damage.

Initial Statistics:
Health: 225
Stamina: 200
Damage: 65
Accuracy: 200
Defense: 20
Armor: -
View/LOS: 525
Range: 525
Speed: 49
Charge: 72

Unique Abilities:
Toggle Weapon – Toggle your weapon choice for ranged crossbowmen, using crossbows, or melee crossbowmen, using swords.

The Archery Range
Description: A building that can be built over a specified human land plot, and can be used to train archers and crossbowmen, as well as to research upgrades. <img src="http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff14/archeryicon.png" align="right">

Initial Statistics:
Health: 22000
view: 256

Unique Abilities:
Train Archers – Trains a battalion of Archers for 126 food and 110 wood.
Train Crossbowmen – Trains a battalion of Crossbowmen for 105 food, 75 wood, and 75 gold.
Archer Veterancy – Researches a tech that increases the hitpoints of your Archers for 200 gold.
Crossbowmen Veterancy – Researches a tech that increases the hitpoints of your Crossbowmen for 250 gold.

http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff14/archery1thumb.jpg (http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff14/archery1.jpg) http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff14/archery2thumb.jpg (http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff14/archery2.jpg) http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff14/archery3thumb.jpg (http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff14/archery3.jpg)
http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff14/archery4thumb.jpg (http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff14/archery4.jpg) http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff14/archery5thumb.jpg (http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff14/archery5.jpg)

metman
02-19-2010, 01:07 PM
Thanks for all the information and amazing pictures. :D

nickson104
02-19-2010, 01:38 PM
Great information, archers usually form the basis of my armies so its nice to know :) however i think this game will need a more balanced approach from me :) (hopefully)

I love the 3rd pic as well! it looks like an awesome castle to defend!! :)

And if i remember rightly, the wooden defences on walls can be built on any walls yes?

metman
02-19-2010, 02:07 PM
I like picture 3 too. Any attackers by the gate can be dealt with using a quick barrage of arrows. :D

blackfang
02-19-2010, 03:15 PM
i prefer melee but ranged is the way i play on sieges (defending) attacking i play all melee:D

Kire
02-19-2010, 03:16 PM
Nice gates there at castle =). Just something ...... with crossbowman. Since they have less range, is it possible that the best range unit in this game can shoot them from a far when they are on the walls, but they cant shoot back cuz of the range? And the crossbowman on the picture have sword on back right ?=) So when you said about that they are great in melee situations that means they swap to sword?
But still ... i know i am already annoying with it and maybe rude =P, ... they could have some better/unique looking armor/gear since it is fantasy ..... =) (tho for classic real time medieval that armor looks good).

zach12wqasxz
02-19-2010, 03:28 PM
very nice, and props to pictures 1 and 3, pic #1 the city itslef looks realistic to how biuldings would be placed and #3 just a great shot of archers defending a caste, also some good previews of castle defenses

GPS51
02-19-2010, 04:27 PM
Will there be further upgrades beyond veterancy? such as elite, etc? Looking good.

Generation
02-19-2010, 04:53 PM
mmmm sexy pictures too bad they're gonna die to the elves!

DarkMaster
02-19-2010, 04:53 PM
Yay, another Men showcase! Keep 'em coming!:D

Will archers be able to deliver volleys to distant areas? I really picture humans as really organised and using lots of diverse tactics, such as this.

Crossbowmen, meh. Probablyl won't build any. They're a great unit, I just don't like crossbows (toooo long to reload, I like filling the sky with arrows).

BTW, nice gatehouse on that last castle. Looks really hard to attack :)

Konstantin Fomenko
02-19-2010, 06:31 PM
Will there be further upgrades beyond veterancy? such as elite, etc?
We are still working on our research system, thus we couldn`t reveal much about that in this showcase. At this point I can only hint that research trees are giant - well over a hundred technologies and improvements to research for each race, and in the current design we have over a dozen of unique improvements for the Archer and Crossbowman unit.

I really picture humans as really organized and using lots of diverse tactics, such as this.
We had the same vision in mind. There are a lot of abilities and tactics human ranged units bring to the table. There are 4 unique formations for these units as well as several unique abilities - from flaming arrows, wooden defensive stakes or ability to switch to melee weapons.

Crossbowmen, meh. Probably won't build any I personally love this unit. First it`s the only ranged unit capable of doing damage to highly armored units (Dwarven mercenaries not considered.) Keep in mind that heavy mailed units can in most cases simply walk towards shooting archers and have majority of arrows bounce off their armor. Crossbowman however can make short work of heavy mailed knights and even cavalry (as long as they got a nice cover)
In addition, with enougth research they become a pretty decent melee unit as well - and aside from all strategic benefits it`s absolutely epic to have 80-100 crossbowman release a volley, switch to long swords and charge the enemy.

Swift sword
02-19-2010, 07:03 PM
Nice fantasy friday. I think I liked the pictures of the fort more though, which brings me to my first question: Is that a relatively small city? It doesn't look too big (not many buildings, far as I can tell) although there appears to be possibly 3 walls. It's hard to tell, that's all ;) There also doesn't appear to be that many units on the screen (sorta Darssen numbers) although I could definitely be wrong.

Anyways, nice showcase. One final question- does heigt affect range? I thought it might for some reason, but if it doesn't it could mess up using crossbowmen on walls.

Edit: Now I know why the numbers looked small-it was focused on the smaller fight. Looking at the minimap, that city actually seems pretty large. Is it player-owned or NPC?

Jonathan Werk
02-19-2010, 07:33 PM
The city with the badass gatehouse is Thorndale, an NPC city (which you can use in Lay Siege and Stronghold Defense skirmishes).

Archer range and line of sight goes up as they climb walls and towers.

Justin
02-19-2010, 07:52 PM
Archer range and line of sight goes up as they climb walls and towers.

Yay, realistic logic that I actually like (in other words not negative) in a game.

DarkMaster
02-19-2010, 08:19 PM
We had the same vision in mind. There are a lot of abilities and tactics human ranged units bring to the table. There are 4 unique formations for these units as well as several unique abilities - from flaming arrows, wooden defensive stakes or ability to switch to melee weapons.

You have no idea how happy it makes me to know this. Four formations? I LIKE!:D

Just noticed that the archery range is overlapping the buildings beside it. This is kinda cool IMO. You've really created the feeling of crowded city streets. Gonna have a lot of fun street-fighting.

Alex Walz
02-19-2010, 08:42 PM
I'll answer questions later - but I forgot to add that crossbowmen also wield swords and can toggle between ranged and melee warfare, making them a very versatile unit. This feature was temporarily taken out and I can't promise it will be in the first closed beta stage, but it will be added back soon.

Also, we have more researches and abilities documented, I just wrote out what we have completely working and that will be in the beta. Some of our devs and writers are looking over this list, and we'll be able to add more abilities and techs once they're through with that. :)

GPS51
02-19-2010, 09:04 PM
Excellent versatile units are always engaging. Glad to hear there will be plenty of upgrades for the archers and xbows.

Swift sword
02-19-2010, 09:35 PM
The city with the badass gatehouse is Thorndale, an NPC city (which you can use in Lay Siege and Stronghold Defense skirmishes).

Archer range and line of sight goes up as they climb walls and towers.
Really? Thorndale stirkes me as a smaller city-it seems pretty large in the pictures there. Cool :) Then again, Dagbor was pretty huge, if a little overcrowded.

Anyways, thanks for the LOS and range answer. I thought I read somewhere that that's how it works, but I wasn't sure.

Alex Walz
02-19-2010, 09:51 PM
And if i remember rightly, the wooden defences on walls can be built on any walls yes?
Yup, all races can construct hoardings on any stone wall - not including keeps.

Since they have less range, is it possible that the best range unit in this game can shoot them from a far when they are on the walls, but they cant shoot back cuz of the range?
Possibly, but the ranges don't differ dramatically. You can also prevent any cheap shots by protecting your walls with a mix of archers, crossbowmen, and catapults.

I think I liked the pictures of the fort more though, which brings me to my first question: Is that a relatively small city? It doesn't look too big (not many buildings, far as I can tell) although there appears to be possibly 3 walls. It's hard to tell, that's all There also doesn't appear to be that many units on the screen (sorta Darssen numbers) although I could definitely be wrong.
That would be Thorndale, a pretty average stronghold. The skirmish was in its infancy, so my units were still spread all throughout the stronghold, and I hadn't trained many new troops yet.

Just noticed that the archery range is overlapping the buildings beside it.
Yup, NPC/skirmish towns have some overlapped buildings and random props, but in a stronghold you build from scratch, you'll be using more organized plots.

Darathor
02-19-2010, 10:50 PM
Looks very nice! I love the versatility and also that there are two archer types for the humans. Cool pictures and I really like some of their abilities.

raving
02-20-2010, 04:25 AM
will there be an upgrade that will make sure ur archers hit moving targets better?

GPS51
02-20-2010, 11:48 AM
Like ring thumb from AoK?

The Witch King of Angmar
02-20-2010, 12:54 PM
I really liked the design of the archery range. Looks great guys.

Thanks

Negthareas
02-20-2010, 01:12 PM
Wow - this Fantasy Friday is Fantastic! One question -

Do Crossbows take a lot longer to fire then bows? In BFME there was literally no difference, but historically, the difference was huge.

The more powerful crossbows had to be hand-cranked in order to draw the bolt back. It could take a while. The less powerful ones had to be placed with their tip on the ground, stock against the waist, and the whole weight of the soldier was used to "draw" [lurch/yank] the bolt back.

I hope that the difference in loading time is prominent.

That was the main difference between crossbows and bows. Crossbows were much more powerful, but at the cost of range, and a much longer reloading time.

zach12wqasxz
02-20-2010, 01:53 PM
question, if a crossbow is much more powerful, how does it have less range?

DarkMaster
02-20-2010, 03:32 PM
I think it goes that crossbows are less effective at "lobbing" arrows (or in this case bolts) over large distances. However, they are better at aiming directly at closer enemies.

I hope the training times for each weapon are realistic. It took years to learn to use a longbow effectively, but just about anyone could point a crossbow at something and pull the trigger.

GPS51
02-20-2010, 04:01 PM
Provided they could load it ;)

Jonathan Werk
02-20-2010, 04:11 PM
question, if a crossbow is much more powerful, how does it have less range?

Heaver/shorter bolts, I would guess. Less suited for long flight, but better suited for impact.

will there be an upgrade that will make sure ur archers hit moving targets better?
It's possible, but there's also other things to think about. Upon levelling up, you can choose to upgrade their accuracy. Also, in most cases you're not shooting at a single unit, you are firing a volley of arrows at a battalion, so if your arrows are landing in roughly the right area, they are getting hits, even if the group is moving.

Josh Warner
02-20-2010, 07:11 PM
Well, historically it's pretty simple - Bolts cannot be used in an arc. They had to be fired straight for various reasons, and that limits range tremendously. The range of say a longbow came from both the bow itself and the fact that you could choose whichever angle you wished and it would still be an effective weapon. Firing at the optimum angle allowed a significant increase in range without a large drop in killing power.


The idea behind the crossbow was two things - it was simple to use. The first Point and Click interface if you will. The only downside was that it takes a long time to crank. But considering anyone strong enough to crank a crossbow could use a crossbow effectively it was a great weapon, and as the crossbow became more popular, at the same time so did heavier armors. A crossbow bolt would punch straight through even the heaviest of armor inside it's smaller effective range. Arrows would simply bounce off plated armor short of nearly point blank ranges. Ease of use meant it was easier to train large amounts of men with them, whereas a longbow for example literally took a lifetime of practice and training to be effective with, while it was in most situations a better weapon you could field anywhere from half a dozen to a full dozen of peasants with crossbows for the price of a single longbowman.


In our game their advantage is again simple, against heavily armored targets archers will be very ineffective. Against average/light armor archers will be more effective, against heavily armored targets crossbows will be more effective. For best results you will need a mix.

nickson104
02-21-2010, 09:05 AM
Yup, all races can construct hoardings on any stone wall - not including keeps.

I thought Orcs only had wooden walls? Or do they have the opportunity later on to develop stone walls? Or perhaps to take over another races settlement?

Alex Walz
02-21-2010, 09:20 AM
Ah, yes - I meant Heavy Wall. Before this wall, races can build makeshift palisade walls - wooden, vine, or barbed wire-esque.

Negthareas
02-21-2010, 10:37 AM
So is this the circumstances...

Archer -

long creation time
Good Range
Fast fire rate
innefective against plate armor unless at point blank range

Crossbowman -

short creation time
short range
slow fire rate
massive velocity - effective against all units reguardless of armor

nickson104
02-21-2010, 10:37 AM
Ah, yes - I meant Heavy Wall. Before this wall, races can build makeshift palisade walls - wooden, vine, or barbed wire-esque.

Ah thats nice to know :)

From that im guessing wood is human, vine is elven and the barbed wire style is orcish?

Do siege camps contain these light walls? I think I remember that human siege camps did in sceenshots, is this an upgrade to a siege camp, manually built or default?

Alex Walz
02-21-2010, 11:14 AM
Most NPC strongholds have heavy walls, but some have a mix.

http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff13/d3thumb.jpg

http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff2/5.jpg

The first walls you build in the Online Kingdom or Build & Defend modes will be palisade. And then you can upgrade those to heavy walls.

<img src="http://media.gamesource.it/gallery/pc/45882/DawnofFantasy-40671.jpg" width="800">

And then you can fortify your distant army camps with these palisade walls.

nickson104
02-21-2010, 11:44 AM
Sounds great :) and their nice screenshots :)

Thanks a lot Alex! :) Thanks for the info! :)

Swift sword
02-21-2010, 12:14 PM
Really nice screenshots, especially the distant army camp. Looks pretty nice, early on in the game I guess?
The elven one is my favorite though. Looks awesome, with the forest and stuff.

welshie
02-21-2010, 12:24 PM
will you be able to upgrade all your palisade or isit just the city slot ones?

metman
02-21-2010, 12:45 PM
Great pictures the third one looks really cool. :D

Alex Walz
02-21-2010, 01:02 PM
All of those three screenshots have been previously, and recently, revealed... but I'm glad you like them. :)

Really nice screenshots, especially the distant army camp. Looks pretty nice, early on in the game I guess?
If you're referring to the first shot in that group of three, that's not an army camp, it's the NPC stronghold of Darssen (http://reverieworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1277), which has palisade for its first layer of walls. And yes, that is early in the siege when the attackers first showed up.

will you be able to upgrade all your palisade or isit just the city slot ones?
I believe you will just be able to upgrade your MMORTS homeland walls and Build & Defend walls. This may change, but at the current time, you don't have control over camp walls or the NPC stronghold walls in the skirmish modes.

metman
02-21-2010, 02:44 PM
I probably should've noticed they were already released. But they still look cool. :D

Justin
02-21-2010, 10:31 PM
Agreed, whether I have seen them before or not they still look good.

Thechampio2
02-22-2010, 07:34 AM
So is this the circumstances...

Archer -

long creation time
Good Range
Fast fire rate
innefective against plate armor unless at point blank range

Crossbowman -

short creation time
short range
slow fire rate
massive velocity - effective against all units reguardless of armor

This is helpful to me. I prefer the huge range for some hit and run tactics. I love infuriating the enemy by thinking he's got me then stringing him along and pecking away at his health. Haha!

blackfang
02-22-2010, 08:02 AM
i like crossbows:D

Puppeteer
02-22-2010, 01:50 PM
Arrows would simply bounce off plated armor short of nearly point blank ranges.
Arrows weren't quite so ineffective against heavily-armoured soldiers. Longbows, for instance, were renowned more for their ability to spear knights like crabs at longer ranges, rather than actually firing a lot further than conventional bows. Conventional bows shouldn't be next to useless against armoured units - they never were, and never should be!

blackfang
02-22-2010, 01:56 PM
... then again you have the muslim foot archers. They could take out whole templar platoons with their bows and they were a more powerful version of shortbow that could shoot about twice or three times the lenght of a normal bow:D

welshie
02-22-2010, 02:29 PM
im glad you put the units and things the way you have, this is way more realistic. It's why the army turned to guns and crossbows away from longbows when they did, Cheaper to train the soilders and took less time. Even tho they were alot less effective as shown in early cursades when the kings chose lots of crossbows in stead of Longbowmen, and when they came up against fast moving/reloading archers they got pwned. I hope this is how the game will move on :)

Josh Warner
02-22-2010, 05:33 PM
Arrows weren't quite so ineffective against heavily-armoured soldiers. Longbows, for instance, were renowned more for their ability to spear knights like crabs at longer ranges, rather than actually firing a lot further than conventional bows. Conventional bows shouldn't be next to useless against armoured units - they never were, and never should be!

Longbows were only effective inside a short range, point blank was an exaggeration. It's still a very short distance compared to a bolt where against plate/shields they would be effective. And again, the real problem was to USE a longbow you needed a lifetime of training or you'd get maybe a few weak shots off before being exhausted. I've used a real longbow, not a compound bow.. I can fully appreciate why the skeletons of Longbowman showed signs of one arm being significantly larger than the other lol.


As far as our archers, I'm not sure if they're considered longbows or if we'll even make that sort of distinction. It might be easier to balance them around a more.. average? size bow. Considering training time in an MMORTS, which is historically the largest drawback of the longbow by a mile, is almost completely irrelevant lol.

DarkMaster
02-22-2010, 08:22 PM
A lot of the reason longbows were so effective against armoured knights was that they would wound the comparatively unarmoured horses, making them fall and therefore injuring or killing the severely beaten-up riders. Bear in mind also that seeing thousands of arrows coming towards you, blacking out the sky is very intimidating and demoralising. The bombardment would also significantly slow the enemy charge.

So yeah, longbows could only outright go through armour at short(ish) range, but they definitely had their uses at long range.

Anyway, I reckon realism is really important when it comes to projectiles. It's good to see you're doing that to a large extent in this game.

Josh Warner
02-22-2010, 08:47 PM
A lot of the reason longbows were so effective against armoured knights was that they would wound the comparatively unarmoured horses, making them fall and therefore injuring or killing the severely beaten-up riders. Bear in mind also that seeing thousands of arrows coming towards you, blacking out the sky is very intimidating and demoralising. The bombardment would also significantly slow the enemy charge.

So yeah, longbows could only outright go through armour at short(ish) range, but they definitely had their uses at long range.

Anyway, I reckon realism is really important when it comes to projectiles. It's good to see you're doing that to a large extent in this game.

That was an oversight in the wording, yeah they're amazing against lightly armored targets at even the longest ranges. They retain enough power to punch through mail rings with the right head, and easily through leather.


And yeah, that's one of my favorite things about the engine, rather than just a % chance to either hit or miss it's a real spread.

GPS51
02-22-2010, 09:06 PM
A lot of the reason longbows were so effective against armoured knights was that they would wound the comparatively unarmoured horses, making them fall and therefore injuring or killing the severely beaten-up riders. Bear in mind also that seeing thousands of arrows coming towards you, blacking out the sky is very intimidating and demoralising. The bombardment would also significantly slow the enemy charge.

So yeah, longbows could only outright go through armour at short(ish) range, but they definitely had their uses at long range.

Anyway, I reckon realism is really important when it comes to projectiles. It's good to see you're doing that to a large extent in this game.

You'd be amazed at how many "historians" completely overlook that fact. If you have a completely encased knight knocked off his horse that will injure him. He then has to have help to simply stand. Then he gets to slog across the field of battle whilst arrows search for a weak point in his armor (face/joints). Ever been hit by a wounded horse that's freaking out? Lbows pwn. I would readily admit that xbows in close range are superior. :)

DarkMaster
02-22-2010, 11:29 PM
Yeah, a lot of people ask me "do the falling arrows even have enough force to kill people?". Of course, the arrows only need to penetrate horse hair+skin. And yes, I forgot about the point of the knights not being able to stand up:D

GPS51
02-23-2010, 12:04 AM
Yeah, a lot of people ask me "do the falling arrows even have enough force to kill people?". Of course, the arrows only need to penetrate horse hair+skin. And yes, I forgot about the point of the knights not being able to stand up:D

Odd you never hear of volunteers willing to stand under falling arrows :P

Puppeteer
02-23-2010, 11:09 AM
And again, the real problem was to USE a longbow you needed a lifetime of training or you'd get maybe a few weak shots off before being exhausted. I've used a real longbow, not a compound bow.. I can fully appreciate why the skeletons of Longbowman showed signs of one arm being significantly larger than the other lol.

Same, I've used one, it's such a difference in pulling strength required! It really does make you appreciate that archers had a heck of a lot of work to do.

blackfang
02-23-2010, 01:54 PM
Odd you never hear of volunteers willing to stand under falling arrows :P

you just ask the wrong people...

The Witch King of Angmar
02-23-2010, 03:16 PM
Question: When you are upgrading the palisade walls to heavy, do you do it a section at a time or does the whole wall upgrade to heavy?

Thanks

DarkMaster
02-23-2010, 03:21 PM
From the look of things, I'd say that you upgrade the entire wall, but the construction does it a section or two at a time.

GPS51
02-23-2010, 06:03 PM
Sounds like a lot of fun to watch graphix on a wall going up. I can't wait. If you task more vills to it does it upgrade faster? IE complete building sections faster?

Negthareas
02-23-2010, 08:01 PM
Longbows are slated as a unit in DoF right now - I think. A question is - should they? I think they would end up somehting like this -

Longbowmen -

Very long training time
very far range of sight [still only able to fire en mass at that range]
suicididly powerful at close rage [read a book on Agincourt if you disagree]
not too expensive
rapid rate of fire [a tad slower than normal archers]

**of course, at close range crossbows were suicidal too - except longbows fire a lot faster**

Negthareas
02-23-2010, 08:02 PM
Another thing - Will archers fire faster as their targets get closer?

The Witch King of Angmar
02-23-2010, 08:17 PM
I don't see why they would. The draw rate should be the same, realistically that is.

Thanks

Josh Warner
02-23-2010, 09:31 PM
Question: When you are upgrading the palisade walls to heavy, do you do it a section at a time or does the whole wall upgrade to heavy?

Thanks

Currently you pay all at once and 3-4 sections built. We may be adding a way to allow you to assign extra workers to construction to speed up building, not sure if that's planned or not.

willrockyo1
02-23-2010, 10:35 PM
Currently you pay all at once and 3-4 sections built. We may be adding a way to allow you to assign extra workers to construction to speed up building, not sure if that's planned or not.

I like tasking workers to things as a concept. It really takes an extra level of micromanagment to know which buildings are a priority during a heated siege. What about repairs, will that be a mass or a worker dependent process?

DarkMaster
02-24-2010, 12:59 AM
I don't see why they would. The draw rate should be the same, realistically that is.

Thanks

In technical terms this would be true, but as the enemy got closer it would probably be a matter of "FIRE AT WILL!" instead of "PREPARE TO FIRE!... AIM!...VOLLEY!". So everyone would probably be reloading as fast as they can once the fire at will orders are given, rather than waiting for each command.
Whether this should be reflected in the game or not? I can't really decide.

HolyPollo
02-24-2010, 07:43 AM
In technical terms this would be true, but as the enemy got closer it would probably be a matter of "FIRE AT WILL!" instead of "PREPARE TO FIRE!... AIM!...VOLLEY!". So everyone would probably be reloading as fast as they can once the fire at will orders are given, rather than waiting for each command.
Whether this should be reflected in the game or not? I can't really decide.

That's a great question. I think at certain ranges, archers should change their shooting styles. Less reloading time but less damage. Unless you already have different classes or archer, such as longbow men with the volley style attack and crossbow men for midrange high damage.

nickson104
02-24-2010, 07:50 AM
Question: When you are upgrading the palisade walls to heavy, do you do it a section at a time or does the whole wall upgrade to heavy?

Thanks

I think its a tech research that will be applied to the entire wall, But I could be wrong... But I think the devs have realised how time consuming it would be to reinforce one section of wall a time (especially for the orcs who can build walls freely, although whether they will be able to upgrade said walls is yet to be determined)

Negthareas
02-24-2010, 09:50 PM
In technical terms this would be true, but as the enemy got closer it would probably be a matter of "FIRE AT WILL!" instead of "PREPARE TO FIRE!... AIM!...VOLLEY!". So everyone would probably be reloading as fast as they can once the fire at will orders are given, rather than waiting for each command.
Whether this should be reflected in the game or not? I can't really decide.

That is what I was thinking of - No need to test the wind, aim, etc. Just draw and fire.

DarkMaster
02-24-2010, 11:31 PM
...And no waiting for the order to fire. Don't forget that:D

wills370
02-25-2010, 10:39 AM
Hmm would be nice if they had a skirmish option also so they can pull and retreat to stay a good distance away.,

Josh Warner
02-25-2010, 12:18 PM
In technical terms this would be true, but as the enemy got closer it would probably be a matter of "FIRE AT WILL!" instead of "PREPARE TO FIRE!... AIM!...VOLLEY!". So everyone would probably be reloading as fast as they can once the fire at will orders are given, rather than waiting for each command.
Whether this should be reflected in the game or not? I can't really decide.

A misnomer in archery - this isn't tournament style, it's war. You don't need to hit a target, you need to land somewhere inside of the long, deep lines of soldiers. Not a specific soldier. The only thing that you need to do is gauge range - often times you'd even do this before a battle started if you were in a prepared position waiting for the enemy. And after you've got a bead on the range, the only thing that matters is how many arrows you can get off in the shortest time possible and your personal stamina to keep this up for a long time.

Also, this 'ready aim fire' concept is I'm pretty sure almost exclusively used for dramatic effect in movies.

Kire
02-25-2010, 02:00 PM
Was just thinking something about archers (mostly the ones with bows). Do they shoot in arch or they shot in straight line? Tho i guess arch is good for long range but its also less accurate. So will be here when target is far away than would be arch but if closer than straight line (if no land obstacle ofc)?

Josh Warner
02-26-2010, 01:59 AM
Was just thinking something about archers (mostly the ones with bows). Do they shoot in arch or they shot in straight line? Tho i guess arch is good for long range but its also less accurate. So will be here when target is far away than would be arch but if closer than straight line (if no land obstacle ofc)?

It's a realistic trajectory system - how far they arc shots depends on how far they would need to arc to get the arrow to travel as far as they need it to. So simply put - further away more arc, closer less arc. Point blank is straight.

Negthareas
03-01-2010, 09:59 PM
You are right Josh - about the faster the fire thing-I should have remembered the massed together effect.

Khan kreiger
06-18-2010, 08:18 AM
you men and elves are chicken....with your many ranged units cant fight close up. Well more easy slaughtering for my wargs:p