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Aametherar
01-08-2010, 07:45 PM
I've always wanted the ability to incorporate more advanced tactics into a game, of course the level of "inventing" isn't in this game.

But a strategy that I think would be a great addition to this game is using the overland to plan an attack on someone a day or more in advance for example, giving an advantage or disadvantage.

On to the strategy itself. Sending out saboteurs to place small explosives near the enemy wall 1 day in advance. If successful the enemy (not knowing about it) would have their walls crumble at 10% life in battle rather than 0%, so they would be unaware til the last second. If caught they could be tortured over the next few hours to give away which enemy sent them. Or they could be bribed and released back to the enemy (without revealing who the enemy is) returning a positive result. This could be an auto setting (which to chose) if the player is offline. Or if the player is online a pop up would come giving them the opportunity to chose which. They would have 2 hrs to decide (the setting auto decides after this point), 2 hrs to torture total. Meaning the player sending would have to wait 4 hours regardless for results.

In short this means if successful the targets walls crumble 10% early in their next battle vs this player. If it fails the defender has the choice to send back the spies so the player expects their walls to fall early and they don't, or to find out who is planning the attack, but the attacker would know their attempt failed. In both cases the defender gets +5% strength to their walls next battle vs this player as they have had time to prepare.

Second option: 1 week saboteurs.
Same concept except this time the saboteurs attempt to erode the land under the wall using water and possibly fungus to weaken the wall over time. This will take 14 hours to set up (12 hours to chose what to do with the saboteurs +2 to torture if chosen), regardless they return to the attacker at 14. The result being a 10% chance for their wall to crumble in a battle every time it loses 10% of its hit points. So when it hits 90/100hp (for example) it has 10% chance to suddenly crumble, at 80/100 it again has a 10% chance to crumble. The defender wouldn't know if it was successful. If unsuccessful the defender has the same options but a 1-10% defense bonus rather than 5% vs the attacker. This de-buff would activate with them fighting against the first player who attacks them activating 7 days after the initial hit, meaning it could be vs a different player. The defense bonus will only work vs the player who sent them though (to prevent abuse) in the next battle the defense bonus will increase 1% per day after the spies are sent maxing out at 10% after 10 days, after which the de-buff also runs out if the player hasn't seen combat.

Obviously the expenses for both would not be small, and the odds would be based possibly on how good your saboteurs are (what you pay them or if they're heroes how well trained they are in comparison to your targets heroes.)

Just to clarify: If you torture the spies they don't return to the enemy (so the enemy knows they failed) , if you bribe them they return with a positive result.

Kire
01-09-2010, 06:33 AM
Please no nono, do you realize how anoying this can be ?=P I rather watch nature around me than trying to notice those bombs/saboteurs, i am not the fast pace micromanager to have up to date knowledge with everything on map. Beside it is complicated =).

massenic
01-09-2010, 07:38 AM
I don't think you understand him well Kire. (it could always be me who misunderstood off course;) )

What he's proposing has nothing to do with keeping an eye on your map. To give an example of his idea:

I send a saboteur today to the city of an enemy. When I log on the next day, I see that my saboteur has returned successfully (although he might have been bribed to say he was successful while he failed). When I want to attack that enemy now, I will have an advantage because his walls were already weakened before the battle has started.


I like the idea that he can be bribed to tell he succeeded while he actually did nothing.

Puppeteer
01-09-2010, 08:24 AM
I think it requires too much more time. It's a nice idea, perhaps something either to be included in a booster pack or in a DoF fan mod (Dawn of Fantasy Unleased, Dawn of Fantasy Extended - some generic title which includes a ton of fan-made content, which could also have moats as well as saboteurs).
Although I don't think DofE has explosives :p Perhaps a Fire spell add-on? Or an Earthen / one for Elves (vines creeping up walls). The 10% idea would fit well with this - the spell could be devastating, or it could have no effect, plus the caster is incapacitated for the duration of the spell - does the attack carry on, hoping that the walls will crumble sooner, or use the spell caster for a better purpose?

The Witch King of Angmar
01-09-2010, 10:42 AM
Honestly, I think that just having an ambush on a caravan with cloaked elves is enough sabotage for me. As said before, any more than that and things would become a bit too complicated. It is certainly a cool idea, however.

Thanks

Joseph Visscher
01-09-2010, 11:52 AM
Your in the wrong realm Aametherar, J.R.Tokien's realm is elsewhere; and unfortunately Mythador does not have Isengard to make them spikey explosive bombs.
You try blowing up a pure Marble elven wall with explosive. I'll come back and see how your doing a 1000 years from now.

Kire
01-09-2010, 12:14 PM
I send a saboteur today to the city of an enemy. When I log on the next day, I see that my saboteur has returned successfully (although he might have been bribed to say he was successful while he failed). When I want to attack that enemy now, I will have an advantage because his walls were already weakened before the battle has started.


I was saying rather from the point of victim ..... looking every min at walls to find saboteurs/bombs =).
Or is more like total war assassin thing?

massenic
01-09-2010, 12:49 PM
@Kire: Looking from the victim's point, he suggested that you would get a message that asks you what to do with the sabateur if he has been discovered (he is discovered automatically, you don't have to look for him). If he has succeeded you wouldn't know your walls are sabotaged until the fight.

@Others: I think it's a nice idea that could be implemented (not necessarily with explosives), but I understand it's not important and will most likely not be done or maybe be done in an expansion/by a modder.

The Witch King of Angmar
01-09-2010, 04:51 PM
Your in the wrong realm Aametherar, J.R.Tokien's realm is elsewhere; and unfortunately Mythador does not have Isengard to make them spikey explosive bombs.
You try blowing up a pure Marble elven wall with explosive. I'll come back and see how your doing a 1000 years from now.

What about a nuclear bomb? :p

Josh Warner
01-09-2010, 09:26 PM
What about a nuclear bomb? :p

Well with the time machine necessary for them to have a nuclear bomb - why not get something capable of blowing up an entire city without the devastating long term fallout.

blackfang
01-10-2010, 05:13 AM
But how would you get the loot? Bring along a alternative universe package in the bomb that takes all the loot and leaves it behind once the bomb is done blowing up?

Aametherar
01-10-2010, 11:14 AM
Oh all the sarcastic bomb comments, they could just as easily be a spell the saboteur casts carefully putting the proper etchings at the bottom of the wall. Catapults ammunition explodes does it not? I said 10% not 10,000% Mr. Thermonuclear over there :P. I think that covers it :P end of the day I guess it depends on if people/creators like it though. That or a modder, other than it being an in battle spell though I don't see how it would work on a mod since the MMO aspect can't be moded. So many comments so fast though this forum really has livened up :D

Also at the people who mentioned they wouldn't want that happening to their walls int he middle of battle, that's the idea. It makes no players (no matter how good or strong) wall impenetrable it also requires the player to take into account these advanced tactics and strategies and plan accordingly which would require a lot more skill on defense. Or a player who thinks it's successful when it isn't could be counting on something that won't come.

blackfang
01-10-2010, 11:56 AM
well for me, doing it simply without any tactics except just then and there would be easiest for an mmo... I mean except what you prepare before the battle... I really hate using advanced stuff every day every hour and every minute just to make everything click together, but anyway i will manage if people like this:) Tough i prefer my thermonuclear alt space bomb practice:p It makes people more reluctant to attack and anger others:rolleyes:

zach12wqasxz
01-11-2010, 07:03 AM
i think you guys are complelty overlooking the fact that the chinese invented gunpowder in 1000 AD, so in my opinion its possible to have explosives depending on how advanded your city is. i think that this a is good idea, also if you think a sabatour/spy cant carry around 200lbs of gunpowder and sneak past enemy patrols your wrong!!!! :D

Kire
01-11-2010, 02:23 PM
i think you guys are complelty overlooking the fact that the chinese invented gunpowder in 1000 AD, so in my opinion its possible to have explosives depending on how advanded your city is. i think that this a is good idea, also if you think a sabatour/spy cant carry around 200lbs of gunpowder and sneak past enemy patrols your wrong!!!! :D

Lol you are so true =P, beside i will just add that mongols when they tried to invade japan used grenades.

Puppeteer
01-11-2010, 03:35 PM
i think you guys are complelty overlooking the fact that the chinese invented gunpowder in 1000 AD, so in my opinion its possible to have explosives depending on how advanded your city is. i think that this a is good idea, also if you think a sabatour/spy cant carry around 200lbs of gunpowder and sneak past enemy patrols your wrong!!!
Except linear time progression is not certain in alternative worlds. What's discovered after 1000 years in world may not correspond to the other. Also, you're assuming that elements and compounds found here can be found in DoF, and in its relative abundance.

blackfang
01-11-2010, 03:48 PM
Also a very small and light atomic bomb may be carried by one man into a city or they could play geniuses and use the catapult for what it is made for. Perhaps they could destroy a city, watch the mushroom cloud, and THEN be instantly vaporized:D There is always the possibility to make an agent run around putting anthrax into the wells in the city, i am very sure that will stop the enemy from closing the gate when you arrive for a drink:)

Kire
01-11-2010, 07:22 PM
Just remembered ..... what if victim rather pays you so you cant attack him and all sabotage bombs go in vain =)?

blackfang
01-12-2010, 12:53 AM
Thats why you got the nuke!

zach12wqasxz
01-12-2010, 01:27 PM
Except linear time progression is not certain in alternative worlds. What's discovered after 1000 years in world may not correspond to the other. Also, you're assuming that elements and compounds found here can be found in DoF, and in its relative abundance.

well, they make walls out of stone, drink h20, cook food with fire, ect. so thats all similiar and they could still have sulfur and the other things u need for gunpowder. also what u say about linear time progression can work both ways, and the abundance thing, well, not much to say there as i dont really know how to argue that, i guess well jsut have to pray that DOF's alternate reality has the elements in the abundance neccassary for gunpowder, or some other type of primitave and low tech explosive