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MGUY
01-03-2010, 05:51 AM
hey guys its me again and i have a question,in the game will u build ur own wall like stronghold crusader or when u upgrade ur castle the wall will be upgraded and built for u ??

Puppeteer
01-03-2010, 06:19 AM
I'm afraid that it appears that they're preset, but you can buy upgrades to alter the ramparts - eg. towers, barbicans, postern gates. I'm not sure that you can change the layout of the walls though.
If you look at this thread we campaigned for a Castle Design system -> Castle Design Suggestion (http://reverieworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=379)
There are other threads containing the idea too, if you search I'm sure you'll find it somewhere.

welshie
01-03-2010, 07:34 AM
Yeh its all aklready done for you i think you get to choose a plan though out of a certian ammount of blueprints, but they did this so that your units can scale the walls and what not.

Supreme
01-03-2010, 07:46 AM
Actually, last I heard, it depends on the race. Elves are completely set (including buildings), Humans only for walls and orcs are all you.

massenic
01-03-2010, 08:18 AM
That's a really nice system. For elves its logical because their building are in/around the trees that they can't build everywhere. Humans will probably have good organised looking cities, while orcs cities might become chaotic because they can build all over the place.

MGUY
01-03-2010, 09:47 AM
nice well in that case i will defenetly choose orcs (i was going to choose them anyway) :P

Puppeteer
01-03-2010, 12:28 PM
Actually, last I heard, it depends on the race. Elves are completely set (including buildings), Humans only for walls and orcs are all you.
I was under the impression that walls are predefined, to an extent, regardless of race. You are talking about buildplots (btw Elves still have some freedom of construction).

Darathor
01-03-2010, 09:47 PM
I always thought that, while yes the walls for humans and elves are preset, you will be able to choose between several different preset locations where you want your walls to be built. Humans will have different building able to be build in preset locations throughout their base. Elves will be somewhat similar, but to a lesser extent, as their great trees take some roles as various buildings. Orcs build anywhere.

Konstantin Fomenko
01-03-2010, 09:57 PM
As was mentioned above - walls are predefined - for all 3 races, even including Orcs. We had to go this way - to make sure player`s town actually looks like a town.

However, there will be numerous options available to player:
-Various options for the overall shape of the town walls for each layer (all layers combined there will be 32+ unique town wall shapes)
-Where the towers goes - and what kind of towers
-What kind of gatehouse to build
-What kind of wall mounted props to build - wall hoarding, boiling oil e.t.c

So for these who enjoy building up massive and unique defenses - don`t worry - predefined, in this case won`t mean limited.

MGUY
01-04-2010, 01:47 AM
this sounds cool i am too lazy to build my own wall :p

blackfang
01-04-2010, 07:51 AM
of course the option to build a own wall would be fun as well but i can live with that:)

Jack
01-04-2010, 08:17 AM
i always want a good lokking city
so if there are a few walls i can use and can place my own towers and stuff
than it wil be good for me:D

blackfang
01-04-2010, 08:19 AM
perhaps until i visit you:)

Jack
01-04-2010, 08:27 AM
no thanks
els i kill you with my army archers and the oil that will let you burm :p

Puppeteer
01-04-2010, 08:35 AM
Hopefully some genius coder will come along and make an add-on to design your own castle, as we've discussed in other threads. But otherwise I'm agreed, for the time being it's not too big a thing for me.

Josh Warner
01-04-2010, 11:29 AM
I'd also add it's the only way to actually make walls/towers etc balanced. Look at stronghold and stronghold two if you want extremes of underpowered and overpowered castle designs. There's no real way to keep walls cost effective and and a big part of your defensive strategy if you can freeform unless we want to let you create utterly game breaking wall setups.

I'd much rather lose the ability to create my own wall designs than have walls be next to useless - because the other option where you can create nearly impenetrable fortresses... well it's not really an option at all.

If you want another example of this, just look at Age of Empires where walls were only used by turtlers and even then it was hardly ever effective. Sure you could make some awesome looking fortresses - but one treb sits at the very edge of it's range and you realize your wall is for little more than decoration.


It's not like it'd be difficult to make the player able to place the walls, all we'd need is a way to rotate before placing. We already have orc units that can place buildings as they see fit.

Konstantin Fomenko
01-04-2010, 11:38 AM
this sounds cool i am too lazy to build my own wall
Yeah - and I mean our towns are pretty huge with hundreds of wall peaces - just imagine placing and rotating all of these yourself *yawn*. Won`t you rather have our underpaid level designers take care of that?:)

blackfang
01-04-2010, 11:43 AM
Yeah - and I mean our towns are pretty huge with hundreds of wall peaces - just imagine placing and rotating all of these yourself *yawn*. Won`t you rather have our underpaid level designers take care of that?:)

In my case i would rather do it myself because i am fond of doing everything in a strategy game myself:) but i can live without it:rolleyes: Or at least until a genius designer comes and takes care of it:)

Josh Warner
01-04-2010, 11:51 AM
Yeah - and I mean our towns are pretty huge with hundreds of wall peaces - just imagine placing and rotating all of these yourself *yawn*. Won`t you rather have our underpaid level designers take care of that?:)

That's actually a pretty good point lol. Walls take time to get to them look right between rotating and choosing the right curved or slanted piece otherwise you end up with little gaps or they won't be lined up and there will be a bit of wall sticking out lol. The level designers have done a good job of it though, they do take their time and it looks great, it takes more time and effort with the walls we have, but you can make some truly great looking castles with this instead of just the blocks in a grid system most games with player placed walls are.


Have to keep in mind blackfang our walls are a lot more complex than AoE and even stronghold's, placing them by hand for each town would be very time consuming and involve a lot of trial and error.

welshie
01-05-2010, 08:23 AM
And trial and error costs. man i hate getting things wrong then realising that all the money/recources ive spent has to be knocked down and re-placed >.< *shivver*

blackfang
01-05-2010, 09:40 AM
well if its online why not work a bit for the ultimate outcome, i just wish it were possible for us to use countless hours placing walls the way we want to:) In my case that would be great anyway but i can live with normal walls:p Its not like it will be the reason for my downfall every time i die:)

zach12wqasxz
01-05-2010, 10:27 AM
well if its online why not work a bit for the ultimate outcome, i just wish it were possible for us to use countless hours placing walls the way we want to:) In my case that would be great anyway but i can live with normal walls:p Its not like it will be the reason for my downfall every time i die:)

i dont know about that, strategic wall placement saved my butt in a lot of missions and muliplayer games in the stronghold series. if u can create a good choke point, and funnel enemy troops, then all i ever needed was archers to defend my castle

Jack
01-05-2010, 10:33 AM
if you may choose the size of you wall than a few poeple make them so big that you cant pass
even siegeweapons dont work
if you can choose out difrent types is everything fine;)

raving
01-05-2010, 11:30 AM
god! come with the beta already. Im drewling over my keyboard! :'(

massenic
01-05-2010, 11:47 AM
@raving: haha... The beta won't come until the game is completely finished.
(and btw, Go Belgium!;) )

welshie
01-05-2010, 12:20 PM
@raving: haha... The beta won't come until the game is completely finished.
(and btw, Go Belgium!;) )

Not compeletly ready... otherwise it would be off to the shops with you! haha and yeh making your walls would be good but as they did say it makes the game so everyone is still vunurable not just the ones who dont spend hours making walls so thick it takes 10 hours to destroy the outerwall whilst loosing 90% of your force... and the defender lost 2 archers due to boredom.. and i verymuch like this aspect as that means you can never go away with to much of your force!

raving
01-05-2010, 12:43 PM
@raving: haha... The beta won't come until the game is completely finished.
(and btw, Go Belgium!;) )
go belgium!! euhm .. i mean
they must be sure that they have made the game they want to release :D
and then they can let people into the beta but still... im running out of keyboards. :D

massenic
01-05-2010, 02:44 PM
@Welshie: I mean that for most games the developers test their own games (alpha testing) until all functionalities are ready. The reason why the game isn't released when the functionalities are ready is because they need the beta tests to get the many bugs that are in every game out.

to get back to the initial topic of this thread:
So basically the walls are preset. But you can choose for each layer of your city between some shapes, allowing up to 32+ unique castles.
You can place towers or props like boiling oil.
And if you really want to design your own castle you'll have to wait for a genius coder who might implement it into the game.
(quick summary of what we have learned about the walls to get back ontopic)

What I'm still wondering is: will the chosen shape of your walls have a big impact during a siege on your castle? I certainly hope so...

zach12wqasxz
01-05-2010, 02:52 PM
thats really a bummer :( . i was really hoping i could make my castle completely unique from everyone else's, it also is kind of a bummer because it really takes away from the strategy, i was hoping i would have to scout out my enemies base to see what kind of defenses they have, where there weakest spot it ect. but since its all preset after i take a castle, ill know how to take it down the next time i fight someone, i was hoping for more of a challenge, with fighting everyones unique castle build

Darathor
01-05-2010, 04:10 PM
There will still be unique wall settings, and then you have to account for terrain. So castles and towns will still be unique, just not quite as much. Orcs will still build anything anywhere they want to. So they will have unique castles and stuff.

blackfang
01-05-2010, 04:33 PM
last time i checked it was not the walls...

massenic
01-05-2010, 05:08 PM
I think you would still have to scout that. When you have 32+ different variations + props like hot oil which are placed where you want you already have something you might have to scout first...

Darathor
01-05-2010, 09:37 PM
last time i checked it was not the walls...

No, I'm pretty sure that they can build anything anywhere.

Josh Warner
01-05-2010, 10:58 PM
No, I'm pretty sure that they can build anything anywhere.

Walls are predefined for Orcs as well, everything else may be built anywhere excluding where the walls will go.

blackfang
01-06-2010, 12:51 AM
its really too bad, but we gotta live with it:p

Darathor
01-06-2010, 07:51 AM
Aww, at least I can create walls with my buildings as orcs.

blackfang
01-06-2010, 08:30 AM
be sure to put your most helpful buildings to block your own troops!

sneaky_squirrel
01-06-2010, 01:30 PM
Is this only for MMO? or skirmish games as well?, I liked to hide my FB in AoE3 where my opponent could not see it, or making a small paliside wall to make sure my overall economy had a barrier to slow dwon raiders for a few secs/mins.

I guess I am not the fan of 2 castles sending waves of units until one wins, would ne nice to be able to setup walls in skirmish.

blackfang
01-06-2010, 02:43 PM
what i like to do is to make the easiest thing possible that can hurt and not take up space then i just spam them all over and suddenly the enemy cant leave the base:D After that i ask my allies to save a wave to send with me in the base, if they do not have any i create a army of the strongest units and just rush in:) that tactic is perhaps the slowest but once it starts moving it keeps going till the end:cool:

welshie
01-06-2010, 04:09 PM
Or you can split your forces in two, send one half arround the back of the attacker (mainily horsemen/fast infantry) and the other half at the walls to defend. Once they commit most of there forces wipe the out by crushing them against your own wall with army behind them no where to run no where to hide. This also saves the dark alley as the alley is created by the wall and the charging in army, while your archers pew pew them from the ramparts and your caverly/ fast infantry destroy them from behind they can only try to go through the charging horse men, and unless they save the pikemen towards the rear i think thats pretty much it for the attacker. See what a good tatic that will be! unless ofc he manages to break through your defences to quickly for the 2nd half to be of any use, that or they has lodes of pikemen which your caverly go on a death run into. Good strat i think :)

blackfang
01-06-2010, 04:40 PM
Well the big problem is really to actually pull it off, i mean it would surely be a devastating tactic, the real problem would be pulling it off. I have had many almighty strategies that did not work since i miscalculated a little bit, so normally i go with the basic strong units front-line and fast units on the sides and archers at the back, i do not mind at all if they breach the line and kill my archers... My real goal is once i get behind the enemy with the fast guys i start pounding their soldiers from behind, kill their general and slaughter their archers. This tactic ALWAYS work unless you have only soldiers like the basics, if they have moral, no matter how easy they are to kill they always buy me enough time. Of course this strategy can be pulled off in many ways, especially against barbarian PLAYERS! They tend to just send everything trying to route my army... Always snaking their way through my armies and in between my gaps but normally before they manage that i already ran past their infantry with some real good soldiers and kill em all off from behind...

Also this is not my walled city tactic, inside a wood wall i just try to stop them at the front gate. At a stone i sacrifice all my long ranged soldiers to try killing off rams and/or ladder teams/towers If i can just manage one it is enough. Anyways i just put some soldiers at some tower exits and the gate and they always start routing if they run down stairs and are met with the swords. Then i got my small town strategy then it is pike men if i have put in v formations everywhere i can and soldiers ready to let them flee back to regroup and put up a new formation. In rtw pike men are INVALUABLE BEYOND UNDERSTANDING. Their K/D ratio is like 10-15 to one when in a v formation behind a gate or something.

So pikies are invaluable if you got 400 pikies you can just as well sacrifice 2 k men to keep em, they can kill about that many anyway in the right position.:D

Rykarn
01-08-2010, 09:49 AM
If you can't build your wall by your self, will all the towns look the same?

The Witch King of Angmar
01-08-2010, 10:14 AM
No. While you won't be able to build the walls, there will still be some form of customization for them.

Supreme
01-08-2010, 10:32 AM
But in the end, every castle will look the same.

Puppeteer
01-08-2010, 11:13 AM
But in the end, every castle will look the same.

*sigh* no.
There are different wall layouts per race.
There are different preset wall layouts per region.
There are different preset wall layouts per level of the player.
There are different customisations per race.
There are different customisations per level of the player.
There are different layouts of customisations.
Some simple but long-winded permutations on behalf of Reverie will show you the probability of your castle being similar to a randomly selected player.

GPS51
01-08-2010, 11:44 AM
Finally some sanity on this thread ^^

welshie
01-08-2010, 11:49 AM
yeh i think theres like 32 different types to choose from then terrane differences meaning like alot:1 in chance.

Jack
01-08-2010, 12:11 PM
is there also a auto manage to build a wall in different ways
like good securded but expensive
good for trade with many routs to follow to your city
or things like that
if you look to some citys with a hill with some cliffs
will the wall builder use it

and btw, can you build bridges
always was a question for me

Supreme
01-08-2010, 02:45 PM
But in the end, every castle will look the same.

*sigh* no.
There are different wall layouts per race.
There are different preset wall layouts per region.
There are different preset wall layouts per level of the player.
There are different customisations per race.
There are different customisations per level of the player.
There are different layouts of customisations.
Some simple but long-winded permutations on behalf of Reverie will show you the probability of your castle being similar to a randomly selected player.

Wall-layout: Could you make an estimate on how many layouts there will be made? Cause it seems highly dependant on environment. Besides how many (really different) standard layouts can you really make. One with double walls and one with double walls with some extra extra space in between?

(Graphic) Customisations: Sure it'l look nice but who cares really. It wont change anything.

So yea, my estimate is, that every castle will look very similar. (not noting the graphical customisations). Not that I dont understand the choice, its way easier to make a impregnetrable fotress with full customisation.

Just dont come to me with that: Pre-defined walls have the same customisation as Non-pre-defined walls.

Ps: Yes I know you can build towers + other helpfull stuff anywhere you like but that wont change all that much so i left it out.

blackfang
01-08-2010, 03:13 PM
I hope i get a map with a single bridge as an attacking point:D It would be awesome:)

Darathor
01-08-2010, 06:34 PM
(Graphic) Customisations: Sure it'l look nice but who cares really. It wont change anything.

You didn't understand what "customizations" means. It means making custimizations that affect gameplay. Like a tower here, a trebuchet here, a gate here, and boiling oil here.

The walls will be preset. However, there will be many various wall layouts, per layer, according to your terrain. They will be different, not as much as many would like, but there will be different schematics for your castles. You will hopefully never be able to anticipate what your enemies' castle layout is.

Supreme
01-09-2010, 03:27 AM
You didn't understand what "customizations" means. It means making custimizations that affect gameplay. Like a tower here, a trebuchet here, a gate here, and boiling oil here.

Ps: Yes I know you can build towers + other helpfull stuff anywhere you like but that wont change all that much so i left it out.

But it doesnt change how a castle looks that much (in a game anyway), you see everything from on top so the first thing you notice is the big picture, which is the layout. And I was wondering how many those could be made (in a pre-defined structure).

And again I dont oppose to idea. I dislike the idea of having a massive army in front of a castle I cant enter even more.

The Witch King of Angmar
01-09-2010, 10:40 AM
Look guys, let's not try and start and argument here (even if you guys didn't have the intention of it, unfortunately that's how these topics end up.) Supreme, your question has been answered, though, I don't necessarily know how your viewpoints work, that's as far as this needs to go unless meaningful discussion is going to come out of this. Face it, we're getting no where with this.

Thanks

blackfang
01-10-2010, 05:05 AM
Look guys, let's not try and start and argument here (even if you guys didn't have the intention of it, unfortunately that's how these topics end up.) Supreme, your question has been answered, though, I don't necessarily know how your viewpoints work, that's as far as this needs to go unless meaningful discussion is going to come out of this. Face it, we're getting no where with this.

Thanks

Thanks for pointing it out:rolleyes:

Supreme
01-10-2010, 01:01 PM
Supreme, your question has been answered, though, I don't necessarily know how your viewpoints work

Wait what? There were viewpoints involved?!

Nah I just felt like whining at something =). And it is less fun in being restricted on how to build your castle. But il shush. ;)

zach12wqasxz
01-11-2010, 12:33 PM
Wait what? There were viewpoints involved?!

Nah I just felt like whining at something =). And it is less fun in being restricted on how to build your castle. But il shush. ;)

i definatly share your opinion there, i was hopeing for stronghold like castle customization, but with predefined layouts its really gonna take away from a castles uniquness. and i just realized this but some castles are gonna be way better for defending and such than others, wich is definatly gonna decrease uniqueness even further as everyone is gonna want the best castle defense possible

Jack
01-11-2010, 12:43 PM
maybe somebody don't want a good defended castle
and like orks, they have not really castles but strongholds with wooden walls and such things :p

Kire
01-11-2010, 02:16 PM
and i just realized this but some castles are gonna be way better for defending and such than others, wich is definatly gonna decrease uniqueness even further as everyone is gonna want the best castle defense possible

Well i like that. I hate games who have many factions and they wan to balance all to be equal in power. But its nicer and more realistic for me if one faction is stronger than other .... like if you would try to balance rome faction with zulu tribe -> cant do. And its more thrilling to play less powerful faction against more powerful and even more if you win =P. Same with this defending stuff.

Anyway i will pick the best looking castle not the castle who is best to defend =).

massenic
01-11-2010, 02:22 PM
I'm definitely also going for the good looks:) I really thought I was the only one thinking this way

blackfang
01-11-2010, 03:42 PM
i love playing lesser type of people against stronger only when the stronger is already busy with several other weaklings:D

Jack
01-12-2010, 10:44 AM
it is always fun to win from somebody that had a bigger amout of troops and you still killed them :D
like empire total war in forts. I had that so many times

blackfang
01-12-2010, 11:14 AM
well with 2 pikies on rome total war, was all i needed for total oblitoration of the enemy:D so lesser troops dont mean lesser fighting power

Pilgrim
01-15-2010, 11:36 AM
In this game are the units supposed to be in scale with the walls or are the people intentionally too large for the battlements?

I think the units are about 40% taller than they should be compared to battlements.

blackfang
01-15-2010, 11:39 AM
they are made for the walls, this is a rome total war kinda game, you kill with awesome forces that fit perfectly on the walls...

Jack
01-15-2010, 11:58 AM
in medival total war 2 it is even better :D

blackfang
01-15-2010, 12:46 PM
yeah the wall system but i hate the units, except the halberds:)

Josh Warner
01-15-2010, 01:18 PM
In this game are the units supposed to be in scale with the walls or are the people intentionally too large for the battlements?

I think the units are about 40% taller than they should be compared to battlements.

Eh, the crennellations seem a bit small perhaps, but I think that the crennellations simply need to be bigger not the units smaller. The units scale very well right now compared to the walls and buildings themselves, looking at them in the editor right now.

GPS51
01-15-2010, 03:05 PM
Could you post a quick screenie of what you're looking at?

Josh Warner
01-15-2010, 03:26 PM
Could you post a quick screenie of what you're looking at?

I could, but then they'd have to kill me :eek: NDA. It's just a wall on the quest I'm working on that had a few units on, zoomed in and checked if the battlements and units were scaled. The battlements are maybe a little small, but the units, walls and buildings all scale really well right now so they're just an exception. It really isn't noticeable unless you're taking screenshots while zoomed really far in compared to what you'd actually be playing at however, so it's not too big a difference. There are plenty of screenshots already where you can see it I'm sure.

GPS51
01-15-2010, 04:03 PM
I could, but then they'd have to kill me :eek: NDA.

It would appear on this screenshot everything is fairly normal in it's sizing. http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff5/Elf4.jpg

also on this one...the people/elves/orcs should be smaller then the walls in a big way. Who wants a 6 foot wall? http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff5/Elf5.jpg

Darathor
01-15-2010, 04:17 PM
It would appear on this screenshot everything is fairly normal in it's sizing. http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff5/Elf4.jpg

also on this one...the people/elves/orcs should be smaller then the walls in a big way. Who wants a 6 foot wall? http://reverieworld.com/screenshots/ff5/Elf5.jpg

The walls in the second screenshot are like 15 feet at least. I think that the scale is fine, the walls are a bit too thin occasionally, but nothing big or anything to get excited about.

GPS51
01-15-2010, 05:17 PM
The walls in the second screenshot are like 15 feet at least. I think that the scale is fine, the walls are a bit too thin occasionally, but nothing big or anything to get excited about.

I totally agree. I was just trying to point out that everything looks normal and very spiffy. No reason to make the overworked programmers redo all that work.

Pilgrim
01-15-2010, 05:51 PM
I think I just saw the battlement size thing in the two videos. They are fast moving so I thought I'd double check.
From what I think I see I agree that almost everything looks to scale and the battlements just need to be bigger.

You can see it in a few elf screens, though i guess elven battlements aren't necessarily the same as human's battlements. In real life battlments come up higher than people's heads to protect them whenever they aren't standing between them and shooting.

The walls in the second screenshot are like 15 feet at least. I think that the scale is fine, the walls are a bit too thin occasionally, but nothing big or anything to get excited about.

Darathor, I'm in two minds about what you say. Sometimes I feel bad suggesting improvements to other people and sometimes I figure its just trying to be helpful. If i see that the people who actually work on the game and take the time to post here dislike it then I will stop.

In any case, I'm certain that things like editting the size of battlements are the kind of things the designers specifically aim to work on.

Edit: Ups my mistake. I intended to quote and reply to GPS51 but took the wrong quote and confused people. Intended quote:
I totally agree. I was just trying to point out that everything looks normal and very spiffy. No reason to make the overworked programmers redo all that work

Andy Joslin
01-15-2010, 07:50 PM
Editing the height of walls would be very easy to do. Editing their width would be very difficult, though.

As to the battlements .. if they were taller than the units, how would you see the units without rotating every few seconds?:p

Darathor
01-15-2010, 07:54 PM
Darathor, I'm in two minds about what you say. Sometimes I feel bad suggesting improvements to other people and sometimes I figure its just trying to be helpful. If i see that the people who actually work on the game and take the time to post here dislike it then I will stop.

In any case, I'm certain that things like editting the size of battlements are the kind of things the designers specifically aim to work on.

I'm just trying to be helpful. I'm just saying that the scale is fine. I thought GPS was saying that it wasn't in the second screenshot he posted(he wasn't). From what you say, it sounds like you are invalidating my opinion because I don't work on the game, but think that, while you also don't work on the game, your opinion is fine as long as the developers don't disagree or dislike it. (please correct me if I'm misunderstanding)

Edit:Ah ok.

Pilgrim
01-15-2010, 08:10 PM
Sorry Darathor I've been stupid. I copied and pasted the wrong quote and replied to the wrong person:confused:

What I intended to quote was:

I totally agree. I was just trying to point out that everything looks normal and very spiffy. No reason to make the overworked programmers redo all that work.

and my post was intended as a response to this comment by "GPS51", and only to deal with the question of whether or not its cheeky to suggest the programmers edit some of their work.

My bad!

Pilgrim
01-15-2010, 08:24 PM
As to the battlements .. if they were taller than the units, how would you see the units without rotating every few seconds?:p

Good point. It depends how much of the gameplay is in bird's eye view. Something I don't know but look forward to finding out. I'll take look at the total war games to see how they do it.

Alex Walz
01-15-2010, 08:34 PM
The pitch hasn't been set yet, or if it is, I overwrote it long ago. All the devs mess around with it in the configuration file, which is why it's different in every screenshot. It won't be a bird's eye, but it will probably be set at 40-45 degrees, which is what I used for all the screenshots, save the close-ups, in the siege showcase (http://www.reverieworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1225).

Pilgrim
01-15-2010, 09:00 PM
:eek: Stunning screens. Looks like a good pitch. Looks like this game deserves to be popular.

BraveHeart
11-29-2010, 02:07 PM
Im also verry intrested in the walls they make your city! shame Elves cant build double layers and do the walls expand with the grow of your city or do you need to set up a new line of walls for that?

Greetz Brave

doom132
11-29-2010, 02:25 PM
i can understand why you would put a preset for the elves and the humans but since orcs can build anywhere, wouldn't there be a chance of the walls overlapping already constructed structures?

irascor
12-04-2010, 03:12 PM
if they are pre-set it is somthing that can't be changed and might be able to change in future

gatorback05
12-04-2010, 04:35 PM
that would be awesome if you got to build your own walls of how and where you want them lol... but then again i would probably be more keen to the details and not be aware of whats happening around me...

Probably be getting attacked while trying to construct walls lol

Karamelgemini90
12-04-2010, 04:59 PM
this sounds cool i am too lazy to build my own wall :p

yeaa what he said! lol

ZuluDawn
12-04-2010, 11:51 PM
"Boiling Oil" omg i cannot wait to fry up some orc!

Gwydion
12-05-2010, 12:05 AM
In the end it wont matter, as the orc flag will fly above all the walls eventually.
lol On topic, while i am sad to hear i cannot create my own personal fortress of doom. Thats actually a good thing, medieval games that require you to build walls like stronghold (<3) and others are very fun, however some of us can create quite the godly fortress that one simply wouldn't be able to beat, or at least if he did, it sure as hell wouldn't be worth whatever the reward was

illicit87
12-05-2010, 01:01 AM
What about moats/pits or some other form of battle to battle barrier that can be constructed in combat to merely slow down/funnel troops? Or will I use my orcish houses as such a thing?

Noel Bohac
12-05-2010, 04:08 AM
good to know, pre-defined usually means limited, with all the options thou, definitly can see a good amount of customization. I am a big defensive player. Loved daoc for their seige, this will be at least close in what aspects I liked about that game. Aye, I know its an MMO and this is not, and this is rts, etc etc.. point to it, I love the era, the fantasy aspect, but most of all the seiging and having a "reason" to conqure lands etc. Going to be awsome can't wait!

-Guardious

flameoflucifer
12-05-2010, 04:11 AM
back to medieval age`s guys...hehehe!

Valhalla
12-05-2010, 04:31 PM
Awh, i was hoping you could build walls just the way you like them..

Marcos182
12-05-2010, 05:17 PM
I too am lazy lol. Which sux because i will play as humans :D Anyway the more variety between the factions the better for the game!

whitewing91
12-05-2010, 08:38 PM
Its done but has many customizations

Zackreaver
12-06-2010, 05:09 PM
this sounds cool i am too lazy to build my own wall :p

I'm not but I'm glad we at least have choice in the matter, I was worried we would be stuck with boring preset choices, but it's nice to know that we have a level of customizability to give the game our own taste.

Where it is true designing castle walls to the extent of stronghold would be cool. It would be insanely hard to balance, because people would find an exploitive way to maximize the defenses and everyone would pretty much end up doing the same. But by keeping things preset this can ensure that players can have their own personal look and feel of their city without the fear of gameplay imbalance.

Beside's, I'm sure we will have a map editor if we want to get crazy with our castle designs. The thought of a castle resting atop a frosty mountain just sounds cool, where part of the defense is scaling the mountain itself LOL.

Mr.Exit
12-07-2010, 03:52 PM
Is it that hard to build walls?

andyf91
12-08-2010, 05:49 AM
Personally i'd like to be able to place the walls myself, but I can see why they haven't added the feature to the game. but would the betas be a perfect opportunity to test what is the better option?!

s8man888
12-09-2010, 10:28 AM
Well if the preset walls have a good design, then I don't mind having preset walls.

Avatarn11
12-09-2010, 12:36 PM
Preset walls is a good idea i think also I hope that there are many different designs though based of location and terrain so its not all the same thing over and over again otherwise you will find a weakness and exploit it every time. But I do wish for some way to customize part of the wall or castle banners or the like would be a nice touch to be able to add. Or what color the stone is like different color's of grey or something.

tim1983
12-09-2010, 01:26 PM
i was wrinkling my nose a bit after reading this, however when i think of it, maybe its not that bad... It makes wall building effective, and you wouldnt have to micro manage so much.. and besides, what i really like about the walls in general,is the scale of things and that you cant hack through the walls, like in Stronghold :P

Josh Warner
12-09-2010, 07:20 PM
i was wrinkling my nose a bit after reading this, however when i think of it, maybe its not that bad... It makes wall building effective, and you wouldnt have to micro manage so much.. and besides, what i really like about the walls in general,is the scale of things and that you cant hack through the walls, like in Stronghold :P

Stronghold was a good example of what you get without pre-defined walls.

Either they're next to worthless to prevent clever players from creating an indestructible fortress - or... you have indestructible fortresses. Neither were appealing from a game design viewpoint.

Stronghold 1&2 having each outcome between them.

Noel Bohac
12-10-2010, 12:55 PM
lol Josh, not to throw a rock to kink your armor or anything , but sometimes people like to feel like gods. After all, it is a video game :)

Now of course that was not the intention of stronghold at all and your point is valid. I am just saying on the flip side of that coin many people like to do so to make the most "god fearing" defense they can etc.

The reason stronghold was such a success in it's day had nothing to do with the animation I can tell you or the "abuse" it had to do with total freedom to let the player choose.

In dawn of fantasy I think it is a good idea that you moved away from this to gear the game more to actual strategy, but never under estimate the selling power of letting the player do what they want. The more freedom you give a player, the more they will play it.

Prime example beyond rts type of games, Roller Coaster Tycoon 3 and all those before. They are solid titles for no matter how many times you go back you can change "everything" from the ground up. One of the many reasons stronghold held such a huge following was for this exact reason, we could design to our hearts content and it never got old. Remember stronghold originally was just a castle building game and mobs would be thrown at you. There was really no strat beyond building and defending.

Point to that is, the idea was sound enough, the later versions went to far off the mark and did what you described. If you had customized walls in this game it would only ruin it if not implemented correctly. Now understanding you guys have been at this sometime, it's no wonder you wouldn't choose this rout. Time will tell, but for me? I would like to do my own designs, it is just another layer to the game and the longevity it would add.

And as as business aspect, customize walls for dlc , yet another income, ahh it would never end in my hands, but then again I am an older guy who has played way to many games in my day lol :)

Thnx for reading the rant ;)

-Guardious

Josh Warner
12-10-2010, 01:30 PM
If it were a single player game primarily I'd have no issue with all the customization in the world, or if we'd made walls more aesthetic rather than an integral part of sieges, absolutely.

Just practicality and balance need to be considered too, overpowered or underpowered, neither were very interesting as they take away one of the coolest parts of the game, sieges. Or at least dull them down considerably. What I mean is just that everything was considered, no hasty decisions here. Of course we can't please everyone, no game can do that, but this was the best compromise for now.


Not very long as far as rants go, wouldn't worry about it.

Noel Bohac
12-10-2010, 11:39 PM
Oh no doubt about it Josh,

I just think as it as something to "think" about after release. Call me a fortune teller, but I think it will do very well and you guys will be able to expand upon it more even after. But alas I am of course jumping ahead, eh we can always wish and talk about things no doubt.

-Guardious

ebrad
01-13-2011, 03:30 AM
Just some thoughts that came to mind from a person who loves spending too much time making things visually appealing and interesting:


What about having wall placement be limited to 30 angled sections and behave like Age of Mythology walls?
Having a 'length of wall' limit to prevent crazy designs. Say 3000meters of wall available so some could enclose a large area including their economy buildings or you can make a super-strong outpost that is basically just a keep. (I'm sure this shows off my ignorance about what's available in the game)
Having a 'suggest wall layout' ability that just takes your buildings into account and 'wraps' them in a wall. This would be for players that don't care about aesthetics and just want it done quickly


I tend to prefer the building aspects of RTS games more than the fighting, so more flexibility would make me happy

Dalkor
01-21-2011, 10:01 AM
Will the preset's be bound to a single possible location, or will there be options. (e.g. Dragging and dropping this preset wall on this particular piece of terrain). Sorry If this was already answered.

TriggerHappyNDB
01-21-2011, 10:48 AM
Will the preset's be bound to a single possible location, or will there be options. (e.g. Dragging and dropping this preset wall on this particular piece of terrain). Sorry If this was already answered.

Actually curious about this myself, so I'm glad you asked. Are the plots highlighted, showing you where your walls will be so you can plan your town based on where they will be, or do they come in preset designs that you can choose the location of, just not the overall shape and area covered?

While slightly disappointing from a creative standpoint, I can completely understand from a balance standpoint that you couldn't do an Age of Empires style of wall building. I just don't fully understand the implementation just yet.

skyhouse71
01-21-2011, 12:06 PM
This game sounds great

Joseph Visscher
01-21-2011, 02:34 PM
This game sounds great

I know isn't it! :p